The Armour Archive

I'm new to SCA fighting, and have a little cash put together for armoring. I don't know much, and can't seem to put together a persona for longer than a few hours before I change my mind, but most of the personas I'm looking at use maille. My question is that I found an ad for some maille that was cheap, but seemed to be too good to be true (even though it's mild steel and small). Can anyone follow a link and give me an idea as to whether or not this would be suitable to SCA combat? Or would it fall apart after 1 practice?
http://www.bonanza.com/listings/8mm-Cha ... r/42911477
Also, it gives the sleeve measurement as 10 inches. Should that be the circumference of the arm at its widest point, or is it a length, or?!?
Basically, would this be a 150$ gamble? Would I be better off trying to put together some lamellar or just find better fitting arms and legs with my moolah? Sorry if this is the wrong forum, don't really know where consumerish advice fits... Thank you!

If it fits you, the price is good (don't forget the $165 shipping from India).

It could be a gamble, I have never heard of them before and they ARE in India so if you have problems with them you may be S.O.L. Other then that, looks like a good deal to me...

Cedric wrote:If it fits you, the price is good (don't forget the $165 shipping from India).

It could be a gamble, I have never heard of them before and they ARE in India so if you have problems with them you may be S.O.L. Other then that, looks like a good deal to me...

This sums it up for that price with the shipping cost you are better off buying from a well known seller, less risk involved for you.

Is it riveted, or butted Mail? Butted was uncommon historically, and found only in ceremonial Maille.

Riveted is stronger and lighter, and period.

Its actually alternating rivetted and flat washers going by the description.

Just looking at the pic I would say go for it. I fought in riveted mild mail for some time without any problems and in the course of a few years only lost a couple rings. It is my understanding, and I freely admit I could be wrong here, that most of the mail made in India is made in just a couple of different factories despite whos name winds up on it as the seller.
Thats definitely a good price-if I had the cash I'd get it myself.
Welcome to the Archive and to SCA fighting
John/Drefan

I would contact them and make sure they had it in stock. Some sites forget to update on quantity and hold your money forever before sending your stuff. :c
If that falls through, You could get mildsteel riveted from KultofAthena.com for $214+shipping

Yeah, that shipping cost puts you in the same price range as ordering from a retailer here in the States, pretty much. I don't know of anyone who has used this company, so that makes them a big unknown - especially since YOU, as the purchaser is on the hook for return shipping should something go wrong.

Me, I would personally pass this up as too many gamble factors, but if you do go for it, please let us know how it goes.

Swete wrote: If that falls through, You could get mildsteel riveted from KultofAthena.com

This is where I got my maille...no complaints at all...got alternating riveted and solid ring, flat, wedge rivets, mild steel, 60" chest. real good folks, and kept me well informed of when product shipped.

Just FYI, YMMV.

As far as price and quality it looks about average for Indian mail. Since you're just starting out I would caution against spending that mind of money for something that's largely decorative. That's what I did, spent my money on things I wanted for my appearance, and ended up with arms and legs that barely worked. Besides that, fighting in mail is a LOT of work. I think you'd be better off finding some good functional armour, get used to how your body moves in it before adding the 30 lbs that mail adds.

Just my $.02

I beg your pardon, but mail is not a lot of work.
Flat riveted mail does a great job of dispersing the force of a blow.
I wear only a tunic and kidney belt under my hauberk and rarely get
a visible bruise. Even on my legs.
Mail is utterly flexible and comfortable. It ventilates well, and radiates heat.
It is light. That shirt in question weighs only 15 lbs. My hauberk is only 19 lbs.
The heavy, cumbersome, non-protective mail you describe is the butted 14 gauge
stuff from the 1980s. A completely different product altogether.

Buy from Icefalcon- good prices and great customer service.

-Graedwyn

Graedwyn wrote:I beg your pardon, but mail is not a lot of work.
Flat riveted mail does a great job of dispersing the force of a blow.
I wear only a tunic and kidney belt under my hauberk and rarely get
a visible bruise. Even on my legs.
Mail is utterly flexible and comfortable. It ventilates well, and radiates heat.
It is light. That shirt in question weighs only 15 lbs. My hauberk is only 19 lbs.
The heavy, cumbersome, non-protective mail you describe is the butted 14 gauge
stuff from the 1980s. A completely different product altogether.

Buy from Icefalcon- good prices and great customer service.

-Graedwyn

What he said.

Uric

I agree with Graedwyn.

The few times I fought without my mail (took it off due to heat or simply forgot it at home) I really missed it. Yes, it doesn't protect from everything, but it does take a lot of the sting out of most shots.

Graedwyn,

I am actually referring to the very similar Indian hauberk I have. I love wearing mail and at this point I always wear it, but it is heavy and very tiring. I'm not saying it isn't protective, just that it isn't legal for SCA worn by itself. I'm sure we would all love to have mail from Icefalcon, I know I would, but it just isn't economical when starting out.

I agree that mail is great stuff-it adds protection, provides a cooling effect, and looks awesome. I just wanted to say that it shouldn't be a priority for someone just starting to build a kit.

Swete wrote:You could get mildsteel riveted from KultofAthena.com for $214+shipping

Could you please provide a link to that? I don't see anything near that price on the website.

What mail takes from your fighting stamina in weight, it adds in awesome.

But I would not recommend buying from India. My squire brother and I did, and it came with a lot of unrivited rings and wires looped through the holes where there should have been rivets.

Icefalcon's mail costs more, but it makes up for that in being a uniform solid product, and he offers great support. Think of Icefalcon mail as the Apple of computers, India Mail as the off-brand PC with lots of bloat wear and a bad warranty plan. If you don't have the cash for better quality chainmail, just fight in something else until you can afford a piece of equipment that will last you twenty years.

But mail DOES require regular post fighting work. You will have to learn to rivet yourself. And after every day or two in armour, you will have to look for lost rings, broken, rivets, etc. You will need to make your own tiny rivet setter and peener -- though Duke Icefalcon or Sir Graedwyn, I'm sure, would gladly PM you on how to do this; and at a major event Pennsic or Gulfwars, if you ask real nice, they probably would show you, too.

Generally, though, if you're not the type of person who likes to clean their mountain bike after going for a muddy ride, DO NOT get rivited chainmail. Try someone else's on, first. Fight in it for an hour or five. Then make or don't make the investment.

Graedwyn wrote:I beg your pardon, but mail is not a lot of work.
Flat riveted mail does a great job of dispersing the force of a blow.
I wear only a tunic and kidney belt under my hauberk and rarely get
a visible bruise. Even on my legs.
Mail is utterly flexible and comfortable. It ventilates well, and radiates heat.
It is light. That shirt in question weighs only 15 lbs. My hauberk is only 19 lbs.
The heavy, cumbersome, non-protective mail you describe is the butted 14 gauge
stuff from the 1980s. A completely different product altogether.

Buy from Icefalcon- good prices and great customer service.

-Graedwyn

Good point Boden-
Mail does require a little bit of regular care to keep it looking great.


I.Stewart-
Is your mail 16g or 18 g?
From what I have seen, the 16g shirts do approach the 30 lb weight
you mentioned.
I do not really feel the weight of my hauberk at all. I usually wear it
all day. No brag, just fact.
I could be wrong, but I think that a lot of the lamellar cuirasses that are
so popular in the SCA weigh 25+lbs. And then you have to add in the
weight of leg armor.
When I know I will be running a lot, and probably only being killed by spears,
such as in the woods at Pennsic, or the Allied champs battle, I will drop my mail.
But just as Cedric said, there have been a few times at practice when it was too
hot, or it was raining that I left it off. Then I really learned how truly protective
mail is. Every blow to the hip or collarbone was excruciating.

For me, the look and feel of mail(the thing that we should all be wearing) adds
to the joy of battle, and a life of arms.

-Graedwyn

Leonardus wrote:

Swete wrote:You could get mildsteel riveted from KultofAthena.com for $214+shipping

Could you please provide a link to that? I don't see anything near that price on the website.

Sorry about that...it is actually $314. I mixed it up with the apparently now defunct finditarmoury pricing. My bad. Still a very affordable price for maille though...And their mild flat-ring is only $10 more dollars.

http://kultofathena.com/product.asp?ite ... 7%27+Chest

Stupid question, but why does no one do welded aluminum? I mean alternating welded aluminum and punched links shouldn't be any harder than doing welded Ti, right?

Riveted aluminum doesn't stand up to the rigours of SCA combat, so I can't imagine welded aluminum would be any different.

I would go the KoA option (and even though I have a hauberk, at that price, what's one more, right) simply because their customer service is top notch and their prices are competitive with anyone anywhere. At least, if you end up with a bad apple, you can get a replacement relatively quick...w/that other company, I would have no surety as to whether or not they'd honor such an arrangement. I mean, you'd like to think they would, but with KoA, you know they will.

In fact, this is the same mail right here, might even be the same company but there's no way for me to know that.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150756040772?ss ... 1438.l2649

Mine is 16g. It is literally 30 lbs, I wasn't exaggerating on that. I've worn it for a few years so it's not such a big deal now, but those first few fights with it I wore out very quickly.

My 16g butted hauberk that I wore back in the good ol' days
weighed 36 lbs. The round wire did not give any protection,
so it was just really heavy garb.
I promise you that flattened 18g makes a world of difference.

-Graedwyn

Hi,

Did you look at the shipping cost? Cult of Athena is only slightly more expensive after shipping.

Cheers,

Jan

What Sir Graedwyn said (meet you on the field again one of these days, sir...)- in fact, I seem to remember a certain pushup demo at Pennsic 39. Although with 6mm links from ice in mild, my current hauberk is a bit heavier than my old 9mm haubergeon. That said, a hell of a lot more protective than the 9mm. Unfortunately, I didn't wear it much last season, due to having a hard time fitting arm protection under it. New solution when I get back from outremer? Chop the long sleeves to half sleeves, and wear my arms from dark horse. It is really a pain in the ass to fit the arm protection you want under a non-tailored hauberk sleeve.

If you practice fighting in it, you will get stronger, and if you really want to move faster, just take it off. It's like running with a weight vest.

I have pictures of that somewhere.

Wenzel wrote:What Sir Graedwyn said (meet you on the field again one of these days, sir...)- in fact, I seem to remember a certain pushup demo at Pennsic 39.

I just found a bunch of those pictures still on my camera's memory card. Didn't we upload that stuff somewhere? By the way, Olaf, how's the arm? See ya this fall hopefully. Maybe I'll draw my seax quicker that you draw yours this time.

You sure got me good with it two 100 minutes wars ago.

TC, check out the classifieds forum, Duke Icefalcon is having a 20% off preorder sale. It will make his blackened 9mm flat steel just slightly more expensive than KoA's. Check out his post, may help you out a lot. Just work on your skills til late summer and you will be ready to rock some domes at the cooler events in the fall.

Arm is good... took a few weeks, but I'm back to normal (or as normal as I get).
Fingers crossed for the fall...

Look how red I am.
Glad you are home safe Wenzel.

-Graedwyn

Well, I'm safe at least... I'll be home in a while. July-ish. Thanks all the same, and take care, sir knight. See you around.

Wenzel-
Sorry about that.
Hope to see this summer.

-Graedwyn