The Armour Archive

Nah, not something I would do, I think that the shaved down rattan having no padding is ok cause there is no head is not really in the spirit of the rule. And I am not here to gain every slight advantage I can by rules lawyering.

But that being said, I haven't held one or swung one. I don't know what sort of diameter people are getting their rattan in. What I imagine might be very different from what is actually being used.

Just gatheriong notes. I typically fight sword in war and am looking at alternatives.

We don't see them often around here. I love my clacker mace and bring it to practice once in a while to keep up with it, but the guys at that practice hate it. Lord Theobald helmet cam tapes a lot of his fights and the audio from this clip is really telling compared to when he's fighting someone with a sword.

http://youtu.be/OpkgPkVgx5c

Sword fights feel like a chess match. Lots of movement. Fakes. Setups. Retreats.

Mace fights feel a lot more linear. Jump in close. Fight inside the box. Someone falls down.

I haven't liked the potato roller/Kong maces because the opposing fighter helm feedback goes rapidly from dull rubber thud "Not hard enough" straight to "Someone bring me some ice I think Bob has a concussion".

Said ibn-Ali wrote:

Kilkenny wrote: Many people perceive maces as being slow, but fail to recognize the benefits that come from shorter arcs of travel and no need to worry about edge alignment. A properly balanced short mace can deliver a barrage of blows in much less time than a typical sword.

While I agree with most of your statement, this last part I do not, sort of anyway.

The mace at range, is slightly slower than the sword. Only in the initial movement of the weapon, because of the balance point being higher up on the weapon than on a sword, where your balance point is a few inches above your hand.

But my rule is, if I am in a "B" range gun fight with a sword fighter, I am wrong!

I feel that a well made mace can be as fast as a sword once it is in motion. But from a rest the mace is slower. It just takes more force to get it to move from a stop than it does a sword. But the difference is so marginal its hardly noticeble to most fighters.

mm.. Think of it this way. If I am going to hit someone with a typical broadsword when we're practically standing on each other's toes, what techniques are available to me? Compare that to the techniques available to me with a 20 inch or so mace.

The mace has more options than the sword and many of those options are much shorter paths than the sword paths. Result, the mace lands more blows in less time, all else being equal.

And the short weapon turns over much, much faster than the long one, again leading to more rapid strikes. The weapon speed may not be any different, indeed the sword tip is almost certainly going to be moving faster than the mace tip, but the time between impacts favors the mace - it's just not traveling as far...

It would be useful if you would discuss specifically how successful you have been with this form.

The proof is in the pudding.

Corby de la Flamme wrote:It would be useful if you would discuss specifically how successful you have been with this form.

The proof is in the pudding.

Does using it to convince people you deserve a belt qualify?

Kilkenny wrote:

Corby de la Flamme wrote:It would be useful if you would discuss specifically how successful you have been with this form.

The proof is in the pudding.

Does using it to convince people you deserve a belt qualify?

Of course it would. But I intended my comment for the Original Poster, not you Sir.

Apologies if you thought so.

How about a 2 handed mace? Like "Gotendag, the Shield Tenderizer".

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee26 ... tendag.jpg

61.5" overall, 15" rattan splints, 40" of plain haft. I took this to the Knights Errant practice in my home shire yesterday. No one with a shield wanted to play...

would love to square off against that beast with my axes

Corby de la Flamme wrote:It would be useful if you would discuss specifically how successful you have been with this form.

The proof is in the pudding.

Until my knee injury slowed me down, I had fought and could hold my own on any melee field no matter the opposition. At Pennsic XL, I fought on the front of the shield wall for Windmaster's Hill for the Valley battle till my injury, damned hay bails, even after the injury I fought during the bridge battles with a blown ACL, and completely torn medial meniscus. I lived through all of the bridge battles without rezing or sluffing off blows. I am even on Youtube in the helmet cam bridge charge video, bottom of the pile, I lived I wasnt happy but I lived. I am not much of a tourney fighter so I avoid them, but in one on ones, I can fight most of the squires in the area of Windmasters Hill and surrounding Baronies and hold my own. I have neglected all other fighting forms to concentrate on the mace and shield. In the "mock" tourney after Kingdom 12th Night, I was second to Duke Valharic in points in the Bedford pts Tourney, and I fought with my mace. Granted that was a small list of only a half dozen fighters. And I went 1 for 3 with him. (did I mention I think lefties cheat! ) I enjoy fighting with the mace, and when completely healthy I can use it to its full potential, but unfortunately since my surgery I have been in a recovery period, which I am still getting used to the lack of strength and worry about my knee blowing out again.

I love fighting with the mace, and anyone who has fought me can tell that. I wanted to fight in Ymir tourney but I know that my knee isnt ready for all that yet. But soon it will be back to 90%, and then, I will be 20% better than before it blew out!!! Now to lose the weight that I put on since the surgery.... common SCA problem, the ever expanding belt line.

I have been honored a couple of times by knights who I greatly respect asking if I would become a squire of theirs, I felt at that time I was not ready yet, as I was still and still am working on mastering the mace. This is my goal, this is my dream. One day I will fight in a Crown tourney with the mace but first I need to work on some other forms to better understand how to defeat them and how to use them. And that is the goal for this year on top of rehabing my knee.

I hope this answered your question Sir Corby. And I have been practicing with my poleaxe when able, hopefully I will be ready by ToF.

Meinhard wrote:How about a 2 handed mace? Like "Gotendag, the Shield Tenderizer".

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee26 ... tendag.jpg

61.5" overall, 15" rattan splints, 40" of plain haft. I took this to the Knights Errant practice in my home shire yesterday. No one with a shield wanted to play...

A fellow from our shire, Yoric, made a gotendag almost identical to that....no one wanted to fight against it either!

Here is a link to my "maul" its a nasty thing and requires some caution.
http://www.whitemountainarmoury.com/ima ... addeus.jpg

As it turns out, there's another fellow in the Principality who has such a Gotendag, and he has named it Betty. The duel was epic.

white mountain armoury wrote:Here is a link to my "maul" its a nasty thing and requires some caution.
http://www.whitemountainarmoury.com/ima ... addeus.jpg

That hurts just to look at.

Meinhard: Look to James Skalli up near Cool who lives next to Viscount Gunther. He is married to Viscountess Annora & likes to do bastard sword but he has a big mukkinn clubbe like yours too.

Yes he does. He's the person I was talking about having fought this past Sunday.

Count Johnathan wrote:I was merely suggesting that a mace is simply and truly a power weapon designed to crush armor. It is not a finesse weapon even though it can be wielded gracefully.

The excessive force rule keeps us from using a mace to its true potential and its real intended purpose.... crushing humans to death regardless of the armor they are wearing.

That is the exact reason I built my hammer to be a pillow on a stick (and has been checked and rechecked by many marshalls throughout the years). Even as soft as it is, it has fully stopped a 3 man Orkney column charge dead in their tracks and has, when I first built it 10 years ago, knocked out a knight through his heater shield (I have since learned to control my swings)

Sigismund von Helfenstein wrote:

Ogedei wrote:I have been considering building a mace for sometime.

The rules state that a single handed weapon with a head needs 1/2" or progressivley resistant give.

I am not sure how the Kong toys accomplish that. They are pretty dense are they not? I can see it occuring in the rollers as they are flanged.

Also I have seen pictures of giant rattan shaved down into a mace shape making the head have zero progressivley resistant give.

Am I seeing this wrong? Am I missing a rule somewhere?

Shaved rattan maces do not have a head, and thus do not require progressive give.

EDIT: This is my understanding of the legality of shaved rattan maces, anyhow.

Nope.
Shaved rattan maces MUST have a head and resemble a mace.
In other words a stick is not a mace and MUST have defined edges.

Sir Omarad wrote:

Sigismund von Helfenstein wrote:

Ogedei wrote:I have been considering building a mace for sometime.

The rules state that a single handed weapon with a head needs 1/2" or progressivley resistant give.

I am not sure how the Kong toys accomplish that. They are pretty dense are they not? I can see it occuring in the rollers as they are flanged.

Also I have seen pictures of giant rattan shaved down into a mace shape making the head have zero progressivley resistant give.

Am I seeing this wrong? Am I missing a rule somewhere?

Shaved rattan maces do not have a head, and thus do not require progressive give.

EDIT: This is my understanding of the legality of shaved rattan maces, anyhow.

Nope.
Shaved rattan maces MUST have a head and resemble a mace.
In other words a stick is not a mace and MUST have defined edges.

A shaved rattan mace does resemble a mace. It does not, however, have a striking head. Nowhere can I find it written that a mace must have a separate striking head, and it is only thrusting tips and striking heads that must provide progressive give, not rattan.

Note that striking heads are referred to as needing to be firmly attached to the rattan core, thus are assumed to be separate items entirely, not merely a thicker part on the same piece of rattan.

This is my interpretation anyhow, perhaps I am missing something.

DISCLAIMER: I am not saying any of this is a good idea, just saying the rules as I understand them do not require padding on shaved rattan. I would still wrap a shaved rattan head in at least a 1/2" layer of foam rubber just so as not to be a dick.

white mountain armoury wrote:Here is a link to my "maul" its a nasty thing and requires some caution.
http://www.whitemountainarmoury.com/ima ... addeus.jpg

This last Knight's Errant, my final fights were against a guy using a single handed version of that Kong toy. He did not strap any extra padding to it and one perfect overhanded skullcrusher shot ended my motivation pretty effectively.

On a related note, while I have found the acorn rollers hurt less initally, they do a great job of deep tissue bruising my thighs. Of course I didn't discover this until I stood up after lunch and my leg felt like it was being ripped apart by cannibalistic Oompah Loompahs. To their credit, they're really fast...