The Armour Archive

How do you secure them to your feet. The ones I am looking at have a back section that is strapped, but there is nothing securing them to the top.
One of the lames on top has a set of two holes which I am sure serve precisely this purpose.

I have looked for images, found this excellent thread with some of our AA denizens ( http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=24800 ) and confirmed my initial assessment, but I am trying to figure out the best way to secure the tying points to the shoes themselves, without damaging the shoes.

Should I run the point under the laces of the the shoe and then tie the whole thing together like a sneaker?

Thanks!

Glaukos

Maybe, being the holes in the sabaton around the size of the string you would use, you may try to make two separate simple knots on each end of the string. In this way losing a single knot won't unlace the whole sabaton.
http://www.foreworks.com/knot.jpg

You know, when I saw that you had an 'Embarrasing sabaton question' I was hoping for something juicier, like,

'If I polish them up real shiny will I be able to look up a lady's skirt in the reflection?"

Historically if you can afford the sabatons you also have special arming shoes made specifically with the point for lacing the sabatons down. This probably doesn't help at all, and you probably already know this. It's what I would recommend though.

Check out this blog entry:
http://burgundianhours.blogspot.com/200 ... art-1.html
If you scroll down a bit you'll see the effigy fragment I based my work on. It uses a square knot through the top of the shoe and the sabaton, and a strap under the ball of the foot. Presumably there's a buckle around the heel/ankle too.

Pointed under the shoes and tied through the holes on top seems like the right way. Like lacing mail chausses with points under the feet. It would mean no changes to the shoes.

James Anderson III wrote:Pointed under the shoes and tied through the holes on top seems like the right way. Like lacing mail chausses with points under the feet. It would mean no changes to the shoes.

This would be a reasonable short term approach since it avoids putting holes in your shoes, though it has a couple drawbacks. You end up walking on the points/cord that you're lacing them on with. It can wear out quickly and get snagged on stuff. In the image I linked to, there's no evidence of the cord going under the toe, though they did include the detail of the strap going under the foot, and all the rivets to do so. That's not to say that all sabatons were attached in exactly one way, or that any sculpture is going to have every detail shown.

Gaston de Clermont wrote:

James Anderson III wrote:Pointed under the shoes and tied through the holes on top seems like the right way. Like lacing mail chausses with points under the feet. It would mean no changes to the shoes.

This would be a reasonable short term approach since it avoids putting holes in your shoes, though it has a couple drawbacks. You end up walking on the points/cord that you're lacing them on with. It can wear out quickly and get snagged on stuff. In the image I linked to, there's no evidence of the cord going under the toe, though they did include the detail of the strap going under the foot, and all the rivets to do so. That's not to say that all sabatons were attached in exactly one way, or that any sculpture is going to have every detail shown.

I would imagine that the system would work if you fought mostly on horseback, so the wear on the strap would be minimal.

Shoe laces are not period...much.

Gaston de Clermont wrote:

James Anderson III wrote:Pointed under the shoes and tied through the holes on top seems like the right way. Like lacing mail chausses with points under the feet. It would mean no changes to the shoes.

This would be a reasonable short term approach since it avoids putting holes in your shoes, though it has a couple drawbacks. You end up walking on the points/cord that you're lacing them on with. It can wear out quickly and get snagged on stuff. In the image I linked to, there's no evidence of the cord going under the toe, though they did include the detail of the strap going under the foot, and all the rivets to do so. That's not to say that all sabatons were attached in exactly one way, or that any sculpture is going to have every detail shown.

Pass the laces through gaps in the tread of the boot/shoe, so that it isn't rubbing on the ground. Or if they are non-lugged soles, the front lacing just goes from shoe to sabaton through the front two point holes, and the rear strap goes underneath, but near the heel - a small heel is all that is needed to keep the strap off the ground, so you won't even notice it. Lots of footwear I see comes with the heel already.

Put holes in your shoes. its the best way.
Alternately, stitch the point to the surface of your shoe.

You can expect your arming shoes to get pretty beat-up quite quickly. Don't plan on using them for anything else. For one reason, you want to rest them between fighting.
http://wherearetheelves.net/the-care-an ... -of-shoes/

Think gloves under gauntlets vs glove n a basket hilt/behind shield for a comparable lifespan comparison.

Robert the Sabaton wearer.

James Anderson III wrote:Pointed under the shoes and tied through the holes on top seems like the right way. Like lacing mail chausses with points under the feet. It would mean no changes to the shoes.

But the purpose of the laces is to keep the sabaton from sliding down the shoe. Since the toe is pointy, unless it was firmly attached to the shoe through holes or stitched to the shoe it serves no purpose. It would be like tieing your leg harness to your leg around your thigh to avoid putting holes in your arming coat to tie the legs up. They would just slide down. And there is really no reason to worry abut changes to the shoes, the shoes are far less costly and far more replaceable than the harness.

Dietrich von Stroheim wrote:You know, when I saw that you had an 'Embarrasing sabaton question' I was hoping for something juicier, like,

'If I polish them up real shiny will I be able to look up a lady's skirt in the reflection?"

Well, now that you mention it...

Theodore wrote:

James Anderson III wrote:Pointed under the shoes and tied through the holes on top seems like the right way. Like lacing mail chausses with points under the feet. It would mean no changes to the shoes.

But the purpose of the laces is to keep the sabaton from sliding down the shoe. Since the toe is pointy, unless it was firmly attached to the shoe through holes or stitched to the shoe it serves no purpose. It would be like tieing your leg harness to your leg around your thigh to avoid putting holes in your arming coat to tie the legs up. They would just slide down. And there is really no reason to worry abut changes to the shoes, the shoes are far less costly and far more replaceable than the harness.

Tied through the holes on top is referring to the frontmost lame:

http://talbotsfineaccessories.com/books/sabaton2.JPG

The holes in the back that are horizontally oriented are for a lower strap to go near the heel of the shoe/boot.

If there's a strap around the back of the heel, or it's a "closed" sabaton (with a heel plate), it won't go anywhere. Even with just the front tie and lower strap, it should have minimal movement.

Here's some pictures of mine:

James Anderson III wrote:Here's some pictures of mine]:

Thank you!!! that works for me! now does the string in front stay in place? does it tend to try to slide forward and become undone?

Thanks!

Glaukos

Glaukos the Athenian wrote:

James Anderson III wrote:Here's some pictures of mine]:

Thank you!!! that works for me! now does the string in front stay in place? does it tend to try to slide forward and become undone?

Thanks!

Glaukos

You're welcome. As long as it's snug between two "lugs" on the sole of the shoe, and isn't at some crazy angle, it won't go anywhere. I wore them that way for ~6 hours saturday and ~7 hours sunday, and they were fine.