Concussions and CTE

[Ariadne of Kea]

In no way should this be taken as minimizing the issue of CTE, but remember that there are a whole host of conditions that can cause these symptoms. I have major adrenal issues, and damage to my nervous system from EBV that cause a number of the listed symptoms--I experience several things on this list in a fairly regular basis as a result, plus aphasia, low blood sugar and low blood pressure problems. And I fight.

So people *really* need to get themselves checked out and appropriate healthcare applied to the problem. May you be blessed with medical professionals who listen and actually figure out what the problem is without profiling you; because apparently no one looks at a fat, middle aged housewife and thinks "medieval warrior".

That said, because of the peculiarities of my issues, all 4 of my healthcare providers tell me that I need to keep fighting and doing what I do, because it actually has made those problems better over time. Coordinated, careful treatment of whatever the problem *actually* is, makes a gigantic difference in your outcome.

Signs and symptoms of a concussion may include:

Headache or a feeling of pressure in the head
Temporary loss of consciousness
Confusion or feeling as if in a fog
Amnesia surrounding the traumatic event
Dizziness or "seeing stars"
Ringing in the ears
Nausea or vomiting
Slurred speech
Fatigue

Some symptoms of concussions may be immediate or delayed in onset by hours or days after injury:

Concentration and memory complaints
Irritability and other personality changes
Sensitivity to light and noise
Sleep disturbances
Psychological adjustment problems and depression
Disorders of taste and smell

None of us are Superman and you only get one you. With the advances in padding technology, like Unequal Technologies, it looks like we can greatly reduce the chance of traumatic brain injuries in our sports. But for right now, take care of yourself.

http://www.bu.edu/cste/about/what-is-cte/

[Chadwick]

So, does the SCA Chirgeons' Guild keep any sort of database on concussions or any other injuries? Do they do any studies or compile statistics? Broken arms? Headaches? injuries requiring trips via ambulance or follow-up trips to the doctor.

In a word - No.

Yes, the chiurgeons have [had?] a system of reporting up to their superiors, I'm not aware of any upstream database or attempts to perform data mining of the information.

Whether an injury is reported is haphazard at best (even for major/significant injuries).
- The chiurgeon would first have to recognize that there was an injury,
- Many injuries are not immediately externally apparent,
- Many fighters are not willing to let a random individual (no matter what their training) attempt to address their injury.

I know that none of the significant injuries that I sustained in my SCA fighting career were reported to the chiurgeons.
- One of these injuries (badly torn rotator cuff) occurred in the middle of a Midrealm Crown Tournament,
- Another injury (severely wrenched knee) required me to drop out of a tournament,
- A "black out" due to an over enthusiastic face thrust in the middle of a major kingdom tournament (with probably a mild concussion),
And a host of other lessor injuries.

It's a rough game, so something like that would probably be most useful.

Yes, and there are lots of privacy issues also. How should those be balanced?

-Keith.

[igelkott]

fyi:

Mild Brain Injury Leaves Lasting Scar

[Lloyd]

Another report - folks protect yourselves, please

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... n-disease/

[Baron Alcyoneus]

Its ****ing hard to know where the line is between speaking up and minding my own business.

I'm sorry it took me so long to speak up. Its not been an easy road. But if my story helps anyone else avoid becoming another data point in this research then I will be pleased.

The easy road is to sit quietly and withdraw from the struggle.

The hard road, the noble road, and the right road is to do that thing you dreaded the most, and speak.

Well done.

[Thorsteinn Raudskeggr]

So it's been a year since my first MTBI and 11 months since the second. I'm still suffering from Post Concussive Syndrome. It's not fun.

It's really not fun. My wife say's I'm only now beginning to come home to her.

[Friedrich Parcifal]

Its ****ing hard to know where the line is between speaking up and minding my own business.

I'm sorry it took me so long to speak up. Its not been an easy road. But if my story helps anyone else avoid becoming another data point in this research then I will be pleased.

The easy road is to sit quietly and withdraw from the struggle.

The hard road, the noble road, and the right road is to do that thing you dreaded the most, and speak.

Well done.

Baron Alcyoneus, thank you. It has been an immense and sometimes dark road, but I am finally coming to terms that I will never be the same. This spring my tests showed further degradation and the possibility of something degenerative like CTE, though they can't yet prove that in living brains. Scary, but I have to live with it.

This summer I walked the 500 mile pilgrim trail to Santiago de Compostella in an effort to meet the man I am now. It was so emotionally healing. I might even like the man I am now.

I still take part in the CTE studies, cognitive therapy and am part of a brain injury survivor support group.

Thorsteinn, or anyone else that wants to, or needs to talk about going through this PM me. Its scary, and has taken me years to get to where I am at now. If I can help anyone else along this road, I will such as I am able.

[mordreth]

Lowest level that you can detect is seeing stars. Any loss of consciousness is another grade up.

"seeing stars", getting a light flash ... etc when you're hit isn't a sign of a concussion, it's a sign that your retina said "ouch". I get a yearly dilation test to make sure everything is good.

[Thorsteinn Raudskeggr]

Fun Side effect: It seems now that my dysgraphia is teaming with my MTBI. It hurts like hell to write too much now. It always did hurt & could give migranes, but now it hurts more with less work.

[leekellerking]

University of Texas just had a quarterback retire from football because of concussions. Considering the almost religious treatment of college football in Texas, that is significant.

http://austin.culturemap.com/news/sport ... m-football

[Lloyd]

In the course of my day work I came across this report - some really good info in here:

http://www.ncsl.org/documents/statefed/ ... ts2013.pdf

[Cunian]

A somewhat more optimistic new piece:

http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/bo ... overy.html

[Oswaldamar]

I have a friend who has done SCA combat for 25 years and recently went to a clinic specializing in pain for an MRI. In the doctors words his MRI should have the name Mohammed Ali attached to it and is beyond fixing at this point beyond serious pain meds. Don;t get me wrong SCA combat is probably one of the biggest highs I have ever had in the three years that I suited up, but after two bell ringers in that time I have since switched to combat archery and rapier. I love heavy as much as the next guy but its important to know the risks.

[Lloyd]

An important point of view from an NFL veteran:

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/01/domoniq ... concussion

[mordreth]

I have a friend who has done SCA combat for 25 years and recently went to a clinic specializing in pain for an MRI. In the doctors words his MRI should have the name Mohammed Ali attached to it and is beyond fixing at this point beyond serious pain meds. Don;t get me wrong SCA combat is probably one of the biggest highs I have ever had in the three years that I suited up, but after two bell ringers in that time I have since switched to combat archery and rapier. I love heavy as much as the next guy but its important to know the risks.

If you've had two bad incidents you should look carefully at your helm - mine is a beast somewhere just below 1/8 inch mild, and carefully fitted to my head

[raito]

I've never had a concussion. But I have decades in sports where sub-concussive hits are, shall we say, common (and not just SCA).

I often wonder what they'll find when I'm dead. A brain, or swiss cheese. It doesn't help that I'm getting older, even though my family history is that my ancestors stayed sharp as whips until they died. Nor does it help that my attention is currently marred by having young children, which means I often seem to forget things because I'm interrupted between the thing and the commission of thing to memory. Nor that my new job, though theoretically similar to my last, is completely and utterly different.

I'm also not made very comfortable in that the behavioral pathology of some of these cases reminds me of that of some high-level SCA fighters.

[Jurgen]

I've had two diagnosed concussions from SCA combat, 19 years apart plus a few shots that gave me headaches.

The first concussion was from a spearman's face-thrust at a Pennsic before they allowed face thrusts there. The spearman broke the no-facethrust rule, and my helmet was inadequate to receive it since the Midrealm still didn't allow them. I was out before I hit the ground. It seemed to heal up in a couple of weeks. I didn't have any lasting affects from this one.

The second concussion was about 4 years ago(different helmet). We have this one on video, but it seems like it was just a freak shot. It took months for the headaches to go away. I feel that I still have some lasting effects from this one. Ever since that concussion, my head just didn't feel right for a few hours every time I fought. As a result I've greatly reduced how often I fight, to the point I haven't been in armour for a year. I don't have time to fight right now since I am going to school plus working full time, but I am not so sure that I'll dig my gear out once I am done with school.

Brain injuries are nothing to fuck around with.

[Baron Alcyoneus]

One guy in Calontir has retired, and has become disabled from concussions from our combat.

[Lloyd]

One guy in Calontir has retired, and has become disabled from concussions from our combat.

That is horrible.

I hope that some of the people that have earned respect and authority in our shared insanity might begin to lobby for researching changes to make medieval combat (recreation) a bit safer. It has to start at the top. The information is available and I am sure that sensible changes can be made that protects the integrity of what we do while creating a safer environment in which to participate.

I loved swordfighting and loved jousting beyond measure, however, there are many, many days that I wonder how much I have lost to those two loves.

[Baron Eirik]

A friend of mine is helping his 17yo daughter get starting in SCA armored. I found out last week she's had one moderate concussion in Middle School wrestling, and another mild one at Pennsic. I'm seriously concerned for her at this point. I hate discouraging someone from something they want to do, but concussions are Serious Business. To my knowledge, I've not had any from fighting and to hear the girl talk about double-vision & vertigo from a head shot ... we talked about getting a better fitting, slightly heavier helm, some changes in the padding ... but, to be honest, it feels like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. I'm not the parent, I'm not the Group Marshal(a Marshal, yes, just not GKM), but I am the guy they're looking to for advice. I did tell them I was worried about the concussions, and that she may need to reconsider.

[John S.]

Eirik, it may also help if she strengthens her neck. I don't have a citation to the medical research in front of me, but it makes instinctive sense--you're a lot more likely to get a concussion if your head bounces around like a bobble head when you get hit. If this is part of her issue, daily isometrics and neck bridges may help.

[Aaron]

The more I've read on this subject, the more I'm interested in SCA fencing. I'm almost 47 years old and I need all the brains I have left. And I get headaches sometimes too.

[CTrumbore]

One guy in Calontir has retired, and has become disabled from concussions from our combat.

That is horrible.

I hope that some of the people that have earned respect and authority in our shared insanity might begin to lobby for researching changes to make medieval combat (recreation) a bit safer. It has to start at the top. The information is available and I am sure that sensible changes can be made that protects the integrity of what we do while creating a safer environment in which to participate.

I loved swordfighting and loved jousting beyond measure, however, there are many, many days that I wonder how much I have lost to those two loves.

Stop requiring people to brown you the eff out to get you to take a head shot, for starters.

[John S.]

I sympathize with those who've been injured.

To those advocating a formal "change," what exactly are you suggesting?

I would not be interested in SCA combat if we were required to hit or take lighter. Most of those participating probably agree.

An arbitrary revision of our armor standards would be worse than useless--more padding is not always better.

Untrained marshals should not be acting like NFL refs and telling people "You might be concussed. Leave the field."

There's nothing left but to make our own choice about whether to accept the risk, armor the way we're comfortable with, and admit that we will have to stop participating at some point.

[John S.]

Stop requiring people to brown you the eff out to get you to take a head shot, for starters.

Where did this reaction come from?

[CTrumbore]

Stop requiring people to brown you the eff out to get you to take a head shot, for starters.

Where did this reaction come from?

From watching that be the standard of "good" for a number of people.

[Tom B.]

At least it is not like the HMB guys.
slowmotion video from Poland

[CTrumbore]

At least it is not like the HMB guys.
slowmotion video from Poland

The HMB guys i know have much better padding, and much heavier helmets, than your average SCA guy.

[Jonny Deuteronomy]

The more I've read on this subject, the more I'm interested in SCA fencing. I'm almost 47 years old and I need all the brains I have left. And I get headaches sometimes too.

My stupid tribe mates can't get this through their thick and dented celtskulls. I have heard every stupid rumour and excuse and theory about why I stopped SCA fighting regularly except the 2 that are actual, and this is one of them. The other one is much juicier.
I've never let on, so speculation is rampant and most of it, because it's The Bog, is downright unflattering.

I am 53 and I've already had this one particularly cunty SJW cunt that is actually IN MY GROUP try to tell me once about my ignorance and stupidity. The point is, if that is even remotely true (you be the judge - DILLIGAF?) then continuing to get hit in the head regularly might not be a very good plan moving forward. This thought counts as evidence against her assessment, BTW.

Also since 2000 I've had 2 concussions, one was a knockout (both jousting) and a minor skull fracture setting fence posts (don't ask - it's complicated). Also jousting hits in the face hard enough to break my old man teeth right in half had to effect my entire skull contents because Physics.

Also, I used to street fight, but now I carry a pistol instead...I still won't be shoved around, but now I am unwilling to take a beating at 53 that might have made me LOL at 23. (no, that's not the juicier reason) Plus, in my day, when you went down no one kicked you in the head. What was once unthinkable is now de rigeur.

[Jurgen]

At least in my part of the world, I know force levels have increased quite a bit over the last dozen years or so. For better or worse, I was a big part of changing that, along with a handful of the other most-active knights at the time. At one point there were a bunch of people playing tippy-tap, which caused all kinds problems when they traveled. We changed it, but in my opinion we overshot a happy medium in force levels.

Physics says heavy helmets should help. My opinion is adding a camail helps quite a bit as well.

[Sevastian]

I've only had my bell rung once by an unintended short stick while I was knee'd. I attribute my helmets mass and construction to keeping me safe. In a lesser helmet I'm sure it would have been worse.

[Baron Alcyoneus]

At least it is not like the HMB guys.
slowmotion video from Poland

The HMB guys i know have much better padding, and much heavier helmets, than your average SCA guy.

I'm surprised the Israeli fighter from a few years ago survived. He must have had a pretty severe concussion or 3...

[Lloyd]

New study from Canada - this isn't good....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/con ... 0245c4694c?

[Lloyd]

http://qz.com/611668/henry-viiis-errati ... ce=parNYTS

Henry VIII's jousting injury...

[robstout]

A PSA-

UW Sports Medicine does IMPACT testing, where they take a baseline reading of your mental functions (memory, reaction time, etc). That way, if you are injured, they have something to compare the injured readings to. Of course, most people here are not in the Madison WI area, but it may be worth checking your local health providers for the equivalent.

Robert The Stout