The Armour Archive

Why polypropylene instead of, say, fiberglass? Fiberglass is much more well-suited to the sorts of impacts delivered in this sport than polypropylene.

Arrakis wrote:Why polypropylene instead of, say, fiberglass? Fiberglass is much more well-suited to the sorts of impacts delivered in this sport than polypropylene.

No. No its not. I would be most put out by someone attempting to strike me with a inch and a quarter fiberglass baton in an SCA combat context. Fiberglass that thick would be really, really stiff and fiberglass when it starts to break down, as it would from repeated impacts gets very nasty. For spears, Yes, but its a different kind of stress
John/Drefan

Can you elaborate on "very nasty when it starts to break down"?


Polypro is too brittle, as some up-thread seem to be learning firsthand.

How many hits does it take to get to the center of a fiberglass sword? Let's find out! Ah 1, Ah 2, Ah 3 *CRUNCH*

Ah, 3!

When fiberglass breaks it reminds you that it is fibers of glass.

Huh. I admit I've never seen a fiberglass rod actually broken instead of just pulped out. I would think that breaking a 1 1/4" fiberglass stick would be the next best thing to impossible.

Too bad we can't use something like this. (Caveat; I have never been struck at full speed with one, so I am not sure how much more it would hurt)

I would be concerned about the dust that breaking down fiberglass puts off. but if it is really somthing you want to do you could experament unofficaly with it.

Have fought several sheilds that were made from fiberglass, and yeah when they go, the dust is annoying. Granted back then I didnt think what it could possibly do to my lungs breathing it in, when dust clouds would pop up from blocks.

BrandrSkalden wrote:

Too bad we can't use something like this. (Caveat; I have never been struck at full speed with one, so I am not sure how much more it would hurt)

These I think would work nice for BOTN for practice maybe, cause their armor is built to withstand real swords with edges.

For SCA, well I see a lot of broken arms, from the folks who wear bare minimum to nothing on their forearms, cause our rules dont require it. Due to the edge on these things and the contact point being concentrated.

Just my thoughts on that.

You'll shoot your eye out, kid!

BrandrSkalden wrote:

Too bad we can't use something like this. (Caveat; I have never been struck at full speed with one, so I am not sure how much more it would hurt)

These are incredibly durable. Polypro equipment made the same way would be better than what some of the experiments have encountered.

Arrakis wrote:Huh. I admit I've never seen a fiberglass rod actually broken instead of just pulped out. I would think that breaking a 1 1/4" fiberglass stick would be the next best thing to impossible.

We tried them in the late 80s and early 90s. Also Nylon, carbon fiber and various plastic materials. Fiberglass and carbon fiber both shatter and splinter and it's ugly. The nylon was alright, similar to the polypro in weight and feel, perhaps a bit heavier and with slightly more vibration. They never broke actually (at least I never saw one break) however, in cold places they stiffen up like steel pipes and in hot places they deformed like undercooked pasta and stayed in whatever shape they had deformed into.

So far nothing we've tried acts quite like good old a fresh stick of rattan.

Curious. I know most people shave down their handles. Is that legal with these and what tools do you use?

I wonder if this material has been tested for splinting breakdown
fiberglass spears? the solid rods are still difficult to find.

William de Faleston wrote:Curious. I know most people shave down their handles. Is that legal with these and what tools do you use?

Use the same you would use with rattan.

Arrakis wrote:Can you elaborate on "very nasty when it starts to break down"?


Polypro is too brittle, as some up-thread seem to be learning firsthand.

Fibreglass when it breaks turns in to resin and glass dust plus glass fibers. I'd like to not breath that in. It's bad enough when I get hit near my eyes when my opponent has old beaten up dried out duct tape covering their sword.

I've not found the polypro I have to be brittle. I think the ruling needed to have a side doc like for Siloflex Equivalents that state the co-polymer number and/or ASTM number. Natural Polypropylene covers all pure polypro polymer mixtures. We really should be using an Impact Co-polymer mix. As a result, some people are getting rods of a different grade then the SEM was and having issued with failure. Which is why he encouraged people to get rods from the company he was purchasing from.

I have used nothing but polypropylene at practice for the last four years. I generally use rattan in tournaments because it hits harder on some shots. They usually last me about six months (six weeks with rattan). The one I am using now is 14 months old. I’ve won two crowns since I started practicing with it…just saying.

HRH Patrick, Caid

Sir Patrick O'Malley wrote:I have used nothing but polypropylene at practice for the last four years. I generally use rattan in tournaments because it hits harder on some shots. They usually last me about six months (six weeks with rattan). The one I am using now is 14 months old. I’ve won two crowns since I started practicing with it…just saying.

Your Highness,

Do you find that practicing with the polypro helps your use of rattan in the Lists (if so, how)? or is it just the same as rattan?

bigfredb wrote:

Sir Patrick O'Malley wrote:I have used nothing but polypropylene at practice for the last four years. I generally use rattan in tournaments because it hits harder on some shots. They usually last me about six months (six weeks with rattan). The one I am using now is 14 months old. I’ve won two crowns since I started practicing with it…just saying.

Your Highness,

Do you find that practicing with the polypro helps your use of rattan in the Lists (if so, how)? or is it just the same as rattan?

The main benefit I see is not constantly making new swords. It is like always having a new piece of rattan. I use a fairly heavy sword and switch back and forth without really feeling the difference during a fight. The difference between rattan and poly is no more than that between one piece of rattan and the next.

Don't plan on these for Pennsic... they will not be allowed this year, per the East KEM.

Finn O'Shannon wrote:For SCA, well I see a lot of broken arms, from the folks who wear bare minimum to nothing on their forearms, cause our rules dont require it. Due to the edge on these things and the contact point being concentrated.

Well, hell, maybe they' learn to actually wear ARMOUR, then.

Hey Patrick are you bringing your polypro sword to Potrero?
I would love to try is out
zippy

zippy wrote:Hey Patrick are you bringing your polypro sword to Potrero?
I would love to try is out
zippy

I will have at least one there. I generally use one on the chalange field, as does HRM Sven and my squire Feia.

Patrick

As for How fiberglass breaks go yard sailing for old fishing rods and do some distructive testing, or find a driveway marker at your local hardware.
Hit with a stick untill broken in long slivers of pain.

I wonder if this new material would work as an alternative to fiberglass splints on a breakdown spear?

Count Johnathan wrote:Roughly 15 fights. Not even half a practice. Omarad verified that this is the correct material when I showed him these pictures before. Garbage.

It probably hit a rivet square.

I am certain that it did however the manner in which it broke was quite different than what I saw in some of the stress tests others on this board had done. It is vital that if the SEM is going to allow these the correct high impact resistant copolymer polypro is specified.

I've hit rivets with mine with little more than a small deformation as a result.
Like I said in the original topic on PolyPro. The stuff you had was different than what most seemed to be using. I'm assuming that everyone that ordered from McMaster-Carr, like myself, got rods of Impact Co-Polymer Polypro while the rod you got was a Random Co-Polymer Polypro (TECAFINE). Which is not used in high impact or rugged applications.
Something I don't think Sir Omarad or the current SEM to account was the variation of types that natural polypropylene covers. The rule should have been like that for Siloflex, get this, with this specification.

Count Johnathan wrote:I am certain that it did however the manner in which it broke was quite different than what I saw in some of the stress tests others on this board had done. It is vital that if the SEM is going to allow these the correct high impact resistant copolymer polypro is specified.

I've seen rattan break this way, too, and even cleaner. The first fight the guy used it in, it broke, and looked like it had been sawed in two.

we tested them at my practice a couple of years ago. when i threw slower shots that landed close to the hilt (10" or so) folks were browning out. throwing really fast shots tended to cause a lot of flex and not feel right to the target (and vibrated like shit in my hand). every solid blow caused the rods to bend and hold that bend. 7 layers of strapping tape up and down the "edge" stopped that but caused blows that nobody liked (no flex). i think my wrist and elbow ae still tingling from it. not a fan.

regards
logan

Sir Bryce and Brother Amos gave me a stick at War Practice, thank you once again by the way, gonna fix it up and find some folks to let me try it out. I held a few and swung em, weight was weird, I like my sticks to have weight more near my hand than at the tip, so will see.

Hmm. Potential as axe or mace hafts right off?

Konstantin the Red wrote:Hmm. Potential as axe or mace hafts right off?

It would make sense, which is why it isn't the case. Only legal as swords. And apparantly only in Milpitas and Atlantia.

Nissan Maxima wrote:

Konstantin the Red wrote:Hmm. Potential as axe or mace hafts right off?

It would make sense, which is why it isn't the case. Only legal as swords. And apparantly only in Milpitas and Atlantia.

Read it again... it says single handed weapons... not just swords.

Chris

all other kingdoms have rules against using polypro for weapons? if not then they are legal.

regards
logan

Nissan Maxima wrote:

Konstantin the Red wrote:Hmm. Potential as axe or mace hafts right off?

It would make sense, which is why it isn't the case. Only legal as swords. And apparantly only in Milpitas and Atlantia.