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First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:54 am
by Alierra
Hello all!
I attended my first fighter practice Tuesday night, which also happened to be my first ever contact with the SCA. The fighters that I met were extremely friendly, and took hours out of their practice to teach me how to throw blows against a pell and explain techniques. If anyone from the Gyldenholt practice at Murdy Park is on here, thank you for your help and time - you made my first SCA experience a lot of fun, and I think you guys have a new recruit!
In any case, I've been lurking here on the Archive for a couple of years, but now I actually have something to contribute beyond thinking "Oooh, pretty armour.." or, "Damn, I *really* need to try this SCA thing": I have a couple of questions. When I was at practice, a really nice guy showed up who was moving and giving away all of his stuff. His armor fit one of the other new guys better than it fit me, but I ended up with his sword and kite shield. They're both perfectly useable, but he hadn't gotten a chance to fight in several years, so my new gear needs a little bit of love and care. So:
-What's the best/your favorite way to tape a rattan one-handed sword? I've googled some tutorials, but they all vary slightly.
-How do I reduce the size of the grip? My hands are much smaller than his, so the grip as it stands now isn't terribly comfortable. I have no carving or woodworking experience whatsoever, but I can follow instructions, and buying the appropriate tools isn't a problem. (Unfortunately, knowing what the appropriate tools are is, but that's what you guys are here for, right?)
-Where do I want the balance point of the sword to be?
-The kite shield is your basic 1/2 inch unpainted plywood with ziptied garden hose, so I'd like to clean that up and make it look more appropriate. So it seems like I have two possible options here:
a) Remove the garden hose and zipties and cover in canvas and a less obtrusive edging (It's been a while since I looked at shield-related things, but I think rawhide was a suggested option?) or,
b) Ditch the kite entirely and transfer the shield basket to a new hunk of plywood, in a shape more appropriate to the period I'm eventually going to be shooting for, and then do all the cosmetic changes. I'm torn between the 14th or 15th century, so I think a heater would be better, right? If I go with this option, how should large the shield blank be?
-If possible, I'd like to get actually get into armour the next time I go, so what sorts of padding and protective gear should I bring with me? (For example, I'm assuming that groin protection is not a standard part of loaner gear)
I think that's the extent of the questions that I forgot to ask while I was there; are there any other newbie questions I should be asking? If my Armour Archive search-foo failed, by all means, please point me to threads answering these questions - I'll admit I'm a little too excited about getting started to have spent too much time combing for answers, and my previous knowledge acquisition was more focused on hypothetical visions of the kit I will eventually have, and unfortunately less on the details of how exactly things like swords and shields should be constructed. I'm also not entirely sure that this is the appropriate forum for this.
To everyone on the Archive, thank you for being a source of information and inspiration, and for being my first introduction to the SCA. I would never have tried it out if it weren't for you. (For the record, all you LH people out there are no less inspirational.)
Thanks for your help!
Christine
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:51 am
by freiman the minstrel
I am unsure of how much you know or don't know, so I will probably come across as patronizing. Please forgive that.
Alierra wrote:
-What's the best/your favorite way to tape a rattan one-handed sword? I've googled some tutorials, but they all vary slightly.
It's pretty simple. The simplest (and most correct) answer is "Do it". After you do it the first time, all your questions will probably be answered.
Alierra wrote:
-How do I reduce the size of the grip? My hands are much smaller than his, so the grip as it stands now isn't terribly comfortable. I have no carving or woodworking experience whatsoever, but I can follow instructions, and buying the appropriate tools isn't a problem. (Unfortunately, knowing what the appropriate tools are is, but that's what you guys are here for, right?)
I use a "Hobby Rasp" from wal mart. It's got a rasp end, and a coarse file end. Sit on the front porch (it leaves a lot of sawdust), mark the front and back edge on the handle with a marker, and shave the sides with the rasp. Use a sawing motion like you would abrading anything. Hack away at it, flipping it over every now and again, and testing it every few minutes. Once you get the sides right, then shave the front and back. I use a pretty weird grip shape, but most folks seem to like a profile that is kind of oval or egg shaped. If you cut too much, you will create a weak spot, and you rattan will eventually split. It will NOT, however, be your last rattan sword (they wear out). Go ahead and cut as much as you want. If the handle already has tape on it, it can be peeled off, and then cleaned with Goo-Gone (a commercial solvent) or, really, any mineral spirit, acetone, or alcohol based solvent. If you goop up the rasp, It can be cleaned with a wire brush and solvent. When you are done, wrap it with hockey tape. One other cool way to do it is to schmear it with wood glue, and then wrap it with sisal, cotton or hemp twine. Use dirt/sweat colored twine if you do that. It will end up that color anyway.
Alierra wrote:
-Where do I want the balance point of the sword to be?
I really have no clue, but remember that a lot of the force from the blow comes from the weight of the weapon. You are bludgeoning, not cutting, so the balance point is going to be further toward the tip than for a cutting sword.
Alierra wrote:
-The kite shield is your basic 1/2 inch unpainted plywood with ziptied garden hose, so I'd like to clean that up and make it look more appropriate. So it seems like I have two possible options here:
a) Remove the garden hose and zipties and cover in canvas and a less obtrusive edging (It's been a while since I looked at shield-related things, but I think rawhide was a suggested option?) or,
b) Ditch the kite entirely and transfer the shield basket to a new hunk of plywood, in a shape more appropriate to the period I'm eventually going to be shooting for, and then do all the cosmetic changes. I'm torn between the 14th or 15th century, so I think a heater would be better, right? If I go with this option, how should large the shield blank be?
The other possibility is to make a new shield. It's a traditional first project. It isn't that tough. You will need a jigsaw and a piece of half inch or three eighths inch plywood. For a flat shield, cut it to shape, schmear it with wood glue (waterproof) and cover it with an old white cotton sheet. Prime it with a commercial primer, and paint it. Edge it with rawhide. To edge it with rawhide, get some dogbones (it isn't particularly good rawhide, but it works) soak them for several hours, cut it into three inch wide strips. lay it across the edge of the shield, hold it in place with clothespins about every inch or so, and nail it in place. It's best to use cheap nails. When the nail is all the way through, bend it over, and lay the edge of the shield on an anvil like object. Whack the bent over part of the nail with a hammer, so that it kind of bites down into the wood. Make sure that the end of the nail doesn't stick up at all, or 1) it WILL bite you and 2) the marshals could possibly bounce the shield.
For a shield basket, you can go two ways. First, you can buy one. Second, you can take a number 10 can (usually available from workers at restaurants for aa buck or two. Cut it length wise, and unfold it butterfly style. Use an old school can opener to cut the lid half way around. Bolt it securely to the back of the shield. The important thing to remember is that you DON'T bang the dents out of the can. When it gets dented, you replace it. They're cheap.
Alierra wrote:
-If possible, I'd like to get actually get into armour the next time I go, so what sorts of padding and protective gear should I bring with me? (For example, I'm assuming that groin protection is not a standard part of loaner gear)
I think that's the extent of the questions that I forgot to ask while I was there; are there any other newbie questions I should be asking? If my Armour Archive search-foo failed, by all means, please point me to threads answering these questions - I'll admit I'm a little too excited about getting started to have spent too much time combing for answers, and my previous knowledge acquisition was more focused on hypothetical visions of the kit I will eventually have, and unfortunately less on the details of how exactly things like swords and shields should be constructed. I'm also not entirely sure that this is the appropriate forum for this.
You're doing OK. Also, google "The girl's club SCA women fighters". There are a bunch of good people there, and it's the largest collection of female fighters on the web. Right now, many of them are on their way to Pennsic War, but you can find good help.
Alierra wrote:
To everyone on the Archive, thank you for being a source of information and inspiration, and for being my first introduction to the SCA. I would never have tried it out if it weren't for you. (For the record, all you LH people out there are no less inspirational.)
Thanks for your help!
Christine
We kind of live for this stuff. Right now, I am "all hat and no castle", but there are great people here.
f
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:14 am
by Euric Germanicus
Freiman covered most of it. Can you show us some photos so we can help a bit more?
Congrats on getting in armor! It's the first step on a long and awesome journey.
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:22 am
by Caius705
Hey, were you planning on fighting with gauntlets or demi gauntlets? If demi's, about what size glove do you wear (eg, small, medium, large)?
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:55 am
by Cunian
The Girls Club is currently back at
http://www.createforum.com/thegirlsclub ... egirlsclub
It's kind of dead right now due to a not-really-successful move, but there is a lot of good info there anyway, and a few of us will read it if you post something, though - yeah - maybe not for a couple of weeks due to Pennsic.
For the sword, do the grip like Freiman said. For the blade, the simplest thing is to spiral wrap strapping tape for strength and then duct tape over that, and then mark your edges with contrasting duct tape or electrical tape. Strip the old tape off first. (That's the annoying part of the operation.) Is it a cross hilted sword or does it have some kind of basket hilt?
For the shield, I'd just take off the zip ties, paint it, and then either use a less obtrusive hose, (black is nice), or cover your current hose in fabric or an unobtrusive color of duct tape and lace it on with leather or dark colored shoelaces. You may well want to change it in six months when you know more. But that's me, and I'm kind of minimalist. Check with some guys on whether the strapping is good as it is, or should be changed for you. A lot of people manage to fight with some really hideously strapped shields that are not really very efficient or effective.
Good luck! Have fun!
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:31 am
by Tibbie Croser
Cunian, thanks for the link to the GirlsClub; I was afraid it had been lost forever, with all its valuable information.
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:05 am
by Garick
Sword taping:
1) Strip off any old tape. A scraper of some sort (butter knife, box cutter, putty knife, etc.) really helps with this.
2) Fiber (strapping) tape it in a spiral, making sure you have some overlap so that all rattan is covered and pulling the tape tight. If you are not putting on a thrusting tip (I don't recommend one for new fighters), put a star of three inch strips of fiber tape over the tip first. 3/4-1.5 inch wide fiber tape works best. The wide stuff wrinkles too much.
3) Duct tape over the fiber tape. Don't spiral it, as that adds too much weight. Just lay down long strips.
4) Mark your edge with contrasting tape. Electrical tape cuts too easily, so I use narrow strips of a different color of duct tape.
Sword handle:
I concur that a basically egg shaped handle is best. Close your hand as though you were holding a sword and look inside. The empty space is basically egg shaped. A wood rasp or "wood grater" (Stanley Surform or equivalent) is the easiest way to shape. I don't tape my handles. I just go over the handle with a knife to scrape it smooth after rasping. Tape sticks to my glove when it gets old, and I don't want a sticky handle.
Balance point: Varies by person, but somewhere from three finger-widths to six from the top of your grip.
Shield: Depending on how big the kite is, you might be able to just cut a heater out of it. Heaters are traditionally shoulder-to-shoulder wide and chin-to-crotch long. Whatever you do, remove the garden hose and zipties, even if you just replace it with black heater hose and cord, it will look a thousand times better and last longer. I use ten-speed tire (cut the support wires out of the side and stretch over the shield) held on by the canvas that I glue (contact cement, DAP Weldwood works well) to the front of the shield, then over the tire and about three inches on the back to hold the rim on and to hide the modern material.
When you hang the shield, make sure that your arm goes along a balance point and that the arm strap is not too close to your elbow. If the shield basket has the handle too high (most of them do), either straighten the tabs, and then re-bend them with more tab, and thus less "leg" holding the basket away from the shield, or put some kind of nad pad under the handle that will snug your hand agains the handle and reduce the fatiguing effect. Preferebly both.
Gear: Bring your own groin protection and wear boots that cover your ankles. If you have elbow and knee pads, bring them, as loaner ones usually suck.
Have a great time!
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:06 am
by RoundTop
How to wrap the sword? look online for how to wrap a hockey stick, pretty much line that (slightly offset loops that overlap slightly as you go). For the tip, most people I know put a line over the top (along the cutting axis) and then over again from side to side, then wrap around like the rest of the blade, covering those vertical lines.
Balance point.... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Sorry, after working with steel swords it is a lot different. Really comes down to how you use the weapon and your style. If you thrust more, you are ok with a more traditional weighting (about 4-8" in front of the guard), but for just clubbing people it will probably be more beneficial around 12" up from the guard. However, if you are using an SCA basket hilt on the sword, this massively throws this weight off and puts the balance point around the guard or even behind it. Nothing you can do, rattan isn't heavy enough to compensate. Just learn around it. Technique can compensate for a lot.
As for the shield, the quick way (and good if you use the edge of your shield for bashing) is to remove the hosing, glue on fabric, trim it to the edge, poke the holes where you have the holes, and paint whatever you want. Then put the hosing back on. To tie it on, get leather lacing or paracord and lace around through the holes. Pick up a can of plasti-dip and paint the hose/lacing. This will keep it together longer, make it black, de-emphasize the rubber hose aspect, and make it a little safer. This way if you hit someone with the shield edge, it isn't a hard edge.
Oh, and Normal shields (teardrop) / kite sheilds are perfectly acceptable for 14th c. timeframe. They were depicted in artwork from the 12th-15th c. Heaters were used in 13th-15th as well, but it really depends on who was using them. So both work just fine. As a side note, historical heaters often were smaller than what most people think of.
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:10 am
by Garick
but for just clubbing people it will probably be more beneficial around 12" up from the guard.
NOOOOO! You will be super slow and tire the hell out of yourself if you do this. Also, most moulinet techniques will be almost impossible. It is a sword, not a mace.
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:14 am
by Blaine de Navarre
Welcome to the AA, SCA, and Caid! I am in the next Barony over - Dreiburgen (Inland Empire area). Sir Ilia, who you probably met Tuesday, is also an Archiver, as well as several others from around Gyldenholt and Caid.
Most of your questions are better answered in person, with visual aids and hands-on assistance, than on the interwebz. Sir Ilia is a very good resource, as he's close to you and has some useful power tools at his disposal. A lot of other fighters in the area (myself included) would be more than happy to open our garages to you and show you how it's done - all of us got a lot of help when we were new, and the SCA is very much a "pay it forward" culture.
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:28 am
by CiaranBlackrune
If you post over in the Caid facebook pages you will find tons of people willing to assist you, and as said, will open our shops and garages to you. We looooove having new people to play with!
Have fun, don't take it too seriously, and welcome to the madness.
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:28 am
by Blaine de Navarre
Also, if you haven't already, you might want to hit the "Practicum Caidis" group on Facebook.
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:33 am
by CiaranBlackrune
I remember being new.... EVERYONE had advice. Very very little of it was any good.
And man, do we have a lot of "teachers" in Caid.

Stick with Ilya and you can't go wrong. Hell, he even has a fab-u-lous shield!
Oh hell... I'm gonna give advice.... Don't make any decisions about what you want to use as far as armour, shield and weapon. Try as much as you can first before you make a decision and sink money into stuff. (Unless you're rich and can afford it... then, have at!) Some things look cool, but don't work for a particular body type or style or whatever. Be flexible, try everything.
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:00 am
by Jean-Christophe
so the balance point is going to be further toward the tip than for a cutting sword.
I'm sure someone will have already said this, but that's not entirely true.
The sword is like a lever. To transfer from an onside snap to an offside (easiest to demonstrate), it needs to rotate through the balance point. Further towards the tip the balance point is, the longer (timewise) the blade takes to travel, thus the slower your shot.
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:16 pm
by RoundTop
Jean-Christope:
That is quite true, however depends a lot on skill and technique. If you are using a snap style, then you are quite correct. For a beginner using a more clubbing style, a little further up is good, however as I said further down, with Rattan it is pretty difficult to have a higher balance point without something on the other end.
(also, some historical swords did feature a heavier tip/higher balance point, designed for more percussive blows, like a machete.)
I learned on steel swords, so most rattan stuff just feels off in so many ways. I have yet to find a properly (like a sword) balanced rattan weapon, due to the material weight differences.
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:41 pm
by Garick
No offence intended, RoundTop, but you seem to be suffering from the common "this particular piece of equipment isn't right, therefore all SCA equipment must be wrong" fallacy. It is definitely not true that if you are using a basket hilt, you cannot get the balance point to where you wish it. Basket hilts come in a wide variety of weights. Further, if the one you happen to have brings your balance point back farther than you would like, it is quite simple to add blade weight with the addition of extra material, such as a strip of webbing along all, or part of the blade (under the tape). This will shift your balance point out, and has the advantage of protecting the rattan so that your blade lasts longer. Similarly, if your balance point needs to come back, the addition of weight to the pommel area is quite simple. For example, you can simply wrap some wire around it and then cover it with tape.
Why should beginners have a clubbing style? Are they not learning to be swordsmen?
While medieval chopping weapons did exist, even period falchions (not reproductions) I have handled didn't balance 12 inches up from the guard, but more like 6-8. Period broadswords and bastard swords I have handled (a statistically significant sample) are all in the 2-6 inches above the guard range.
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:41 pm
by robstout
I prefer havinh the center of balance on my sword to be pretty close to my hand (4-6 inches. I'll need to check). I've found that the further out the balance point is, the more power you get, but you lose control. I prefer having the control.
Welcome to the SCA!
Robert The Stout
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:42 pm
by Dietrich von Stroheim
Welcome, Christine, to the Society, and to the life of arms!
One thing you have probably just learned from this thread, is that you will encounter many different 'teachers', with a wide variety of opinions, some of which are quite contradictory.
My advice to you is going to be simple: work with your local experienced fighters, start off learning sword and shield with a shield type similar to what your teachers use (strapped heater shield is very common and many experienced and top-level fighters use them), and definitely consult with your teachers, and possibly here on the Archive, before making major armor purchases.
There are some truly wonderful folks in the armoring profession, who will make great custom gear that can last your entire fighting career. There are others who are unreliable, unprofessional, and perennially bankrupt who make customers' orders and money vanish like Houdini. The Armor Archive community is great for telling you which is which, should you ask.
Finally, for sword balance, this is very much a personal preference. I like my rattan swords to be balanced very much like my steel swords. That is what works best for my fighting style, plus it makes it easy to switch freely between SCA and HEMA.
Good luck!!
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:38 pm
by Alexander of Lancaster
Welcome Christine,
You certainly will get a lot of advice and some of it conflicting. I can say that His Grace Garricks balance point advice is spot on. I had been fighting for about 6 years when he gave a class this past winter on balance points and their manipulation. I have a hard time thinking of a bigger break through in my offensive capabilities in 6 years then his techniques. After adopting his techniques in both use and construction of one handed swords my elbow no longer hurts after fighting.
Lord Alexander
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:09 pm
by Alierra
Hi everyone, thanks for all the responses!
So, this is what I've gotten from your advice:
Use a "Hobby Rasp" from walmart, or something similar to shave the handle into an oval that fits my hand.
After spiral wrapping the blade with strapping tape, the duct tape should be done in strips (this was the biggest part I wasn't sure on, I think). I've removed the old tape already, so I'm glad that's the annoying part.
It sounds like the balance point should be somewhere around 2-6 inches from the guard, right?
I think I'll stick with the existing shield for now, but I will need to remove the hose and zipties, cover the shield in fabric, and use rawhide for the edge.
Does that sound about right?
Euric, I'm happy to post photos, just as soon as I figure out how to do that; uploading them seems to take a very long time.
Caius, the sword I currently have has a basket hilt, so I figure that demis would be enough for now. I think small is the right size.
Cunian, thanks for the link to the Girls Club - I'll check it out.
Garick, I held the shield and looked in the mirror today, and it looks like it does cover me from shoulder to shoulder, so I think it's roughly the right size; I'm pretty sure it's too small to cut an appropriately sized heater out of. If the arm strap shouldn't be right at the elbow, where should it be? Middle of the forearm, or somewhere in between there and the elbow? Also, what is a nad pad?
Balian, thank you! I'll definitely look at the Facebook pages, too. I did meet Sir Ilia - he actually spent three or four hours helping me out and talking about fighting. (And yes, he does have a gorgeous shield. I even got to play with it a little!)
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:18 pm
by Caius705
Alierra wrote:
Caius, the sword I currently have has a basket hilt, so I figure that demis would be enough for now. I think small is the right size.
I have a set of demi's that aren't being used and that I wouldn't mind giving away but they are definitely Large, so sounds like a no go. And it sounds like already have a sword basket, no? So out of luck there. Hmmm. Don't suppose you're making a 14th century kit, huh?
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:47 pm
by RoundTop
Thanks for the feedback Garrick. No offense taken.
I was roughing the numbers somewhat from memory and what I have hefted from various people's gear. I honestly like my balance point about 2-4" from the guard, which is around where steel puts it.
That's a great idea to add a strip near the tip to move the balance point forward (when using a heavier guard). I'll have to try it sometime.
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:32 pm
by Blaine de Navarre
It also helps to have a vise to hold the sword when you're working on the grip, regardless of which tool you use.
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:31 am
by Sirharoun
I agree 100% with Garick. Follow his instructions and you will be pleased with the results.
Haroun (almost 30 years of SCA combat experience).
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:34 am
by freiman the minstrel
I can't believe I missed this. If you want to be well prepared for practice, you might consider bringing the correct size of elbow pads, knee pads, and groin protection. In addition, you can bring a set of batting gloves, sturdy boots, a really beefy belt (or weight lifters kidney belt) that is a little bigger than you need, and a sturdy duffle bag to carry everything in. For bonus points, bring your own gatorade or water, and if you really want to be nice, bring enough to share with folks that work with you.
I do want to encourage you to avoid spending lots of money before you receive a telling blow. Sensible people avoid hobbies where people try to hit them in the head with two by fours. It's not at all "wimpy" or anything like that to decide that this isn't for you.
f
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:35 am
by freiman the minstrel
The duffle bag should be big and tough enough to eventually be an armor bag. Army duffle bags work great.
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:31 am
by Jean-Christophe
For a beginner using a more clubbing style
Well, I'm going off my, admittedly fairly limited, experience.
I only joined the SCA about 9 months ago - but the first shot I was taught was the snap
One thing you have probably just learned from this thread, is that you will encounter many different 'teachers', with a wide variety of opinions, some of which are quite contradictory.
Ain't that the truth!
Advice given to me by the local chivalry was "Listen to everyone offering advice. Figure out which of it works for you, ignore the rest"
Seems to be working for me so far!
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:43 am
by Garick
Garick, I held the shield and looked in the mirror today, and it looks like it does cover me from shoulder to shoulder, so I think it's roughly the right size; I'm pretty sure it's too small to cut an appropriately sized heater out of. If the arm strap shouldn't be right at the elbow, where should it be? Middle of the forearm, or somewhere in between there and the elbow? Also, what is a nad pad?
Stupid typos. That should say "hand pad." Just a piece of padding glued to the shield under the handle that will snug your hand up aganst the handle and lessen the shock when the shield is hit. This will make the shield much less tiring to hold.
The arm strap should be wide (2-4 inches), snug, and should come no closer than about an inch and a half from your elbow. You don't want the strap to constrict the tendons that run on the inside of your elbow, or it will move slowly and be very tiring to hold. You want it on muscle.
Also, make sure that the handle and the strap are aligned such to have your arm along a balance-point of the shield, and to have your arm in a comfortable position when the shield is in its best default position. Getting this line right will probably require an experience fighter to help you. Bring the shield, a sharpie marker, and a piece of string with a weight on the end to your next practice. The string is for finding the balance point (by using it as a plumb-bob), based on the angle you want, which varies by shield, so that's one reason you need help. Then mark that balance line with the sharpie. Then have the experienced fighter hold the shield from the front and put it in a good defensive position for you and put your arm along that line in a comfortable position. Once you have a good mix of balance, comfort, and defensive placement of the shield, use the sharpie again to trace around your arm and hand. This tells you where to put the handle and strap. It's best if you have a short stick in your hand that you're holding like a handle and trace around that too. This tells you what angle to attach the handle, so you can hold it in the most comfort.
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:04 pm
by Haldan
With all respect to Duke Garick, I'm more visual than literal. I needs pictures!
This site by sir Corby has a good explanation of how to strap a shield that includes pictures.... It works for heaters and kites, IME.
http://delaflamme.org/book/export/html/47
Haldan
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:26 pm
by EnderPC
Hi and welcome to Gyldenholt! For sure join us on our baronial facebook page and the kingdom level fighting page "Practicum Caidus". Also Sir Illia definitely knows what he's talking about and he is a great teacher.
- About your shield, I started about two years ago with a plywood shield and didnt like it. It was just too heavy and I got fatigued too quick. I know for sure that the barony has a aluminum heater in the loaner gear somewhere as I used it for about 4months before i got mine. Don't be afraid to try out different shield shapes and styles to figure out what works best for you.
-For a sword handle I use a rasp or knife to cut the shape I want then sand it using a power sander to get the smoothness and final shape I like. Dont wrap the handle with duct tape it will be not good. If you feel like you need a little padding you can use tennis racket tapes or hockey stick tape just know that they will break down and need to be replaced after a while.
-If you want to get in armour you'll definitely need groin protection, knee and elbow pads, and a helmet. Loaner gear can probably cover the rest fairly easily, but you'll have to search through the loaner helms to see if one fits and then pad it up. Oh and some gloves if you want them.
-Talk to Olivia at practice. She just got authorized about 2 months ago and went through the same process that your going through. She might be a good resource.
Look forward to seeing you out there.
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:09 am
by Ilia_Caid
Hey there!
Christine was gifted a rather small round top kite and a beefy-circa-1996 sword from a kind gentleman who is moving out of state and didn't have room for his SCA equipment.
I'm glad i didn't scare her off with my non-stop talking about fighting
I wont be out this Tuesday, but I'll be out the following week.
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:31 am
by Konstantin the Red
Alierra wrote:
-What's the best/your favorite way to tape a rattan one-handed sword? I've googled some tutorials, but they all vary slightly.
-How do I reduce the size of the grip? My hands are much smaller than his, so the grip as it stands now isn't terribly comfortable. I have no carving or woodworking experience whatsoever, but I can follow instructions, and buying the appropriate tools isn't a problem. (Unfortunately, knowing what the appropriate tools are is, but that's what you guys are here for, right?)
I found the Surform brand rasps less effective on rattan for planing flats into it or shaping the grip than the plain old half-round carpenters' rasp, the iron thing with all those teeth, a flat face and a curved one. The curved one really digs in. You will probably want to gouge out a bit of relief for the base of your thumb, right at the web of your hand, where a rattan corner will be uncomfortable right against the bone; file a shallowish notch in there until your thumb can comfortably ride. Good grip. Never cut a step into rattan, always be gradual. A step will start a split. Rattan is very linear stuff. Did you know it's a kind of palm?
-Where do I want the balance point of the sword to be?
One and a half to two handspans down from the crossguard/front of baskethilt. Mobile, yet powerful. Twohanded sword types can go farther down towards the point yet. A 48" hand and a half could be three handspans. A longer one, four.
-The kite shield is your basic 1/2 inch unpainted plywood with ziptied garden hose, so I'd like to clean that up and make it look more appropriate. So it seems like I have two possible options here:
a) Remove the garden hose and zipties and cover in canvas and a less obtrusive edging (It's been a while since I looked at shield-related things, but I think rawhide was a suggested option?) or,
b) Ditch the kite entirely and transfer the shield basket to a new hunk of plywood, in a shape more appropriate to the period I'm eventually going to be shooting for, and then do all the cosmetic changes. I'm torn between the 14th or 15th century, so I think a heater would be better, right? If I go with this option, how should large the shield blank be?
Lots of stuff here, full of ramifications. Most folk would want to start you on a heater, not a kite. You might consider simply having two shields, ASAP, one of each.
For shield edging, Search-button onsite on "invisible shield edging" and like terms. The basic recipe for spiffy hidden shield edging is: silicone adhesive to glue rope on the edge all around, same thickness as the wood, perhaps with the edge routed out a little to have a valley to cradle that rope in; fasten the rope down with a broad strip of canvas which folds over the rope edge and is glued down front and back on the edgeward parts of the shield, stabilizing the rope and holding it in place (rawhide works for this too); then cover everything with yet another layer of canvas over the whole face of the shield and all glued down. Canvas or lighter fabric goes well on the back of the shield. Glued fabric on back and face greatly strengthens a wood shield and makes it last longer. Of course, you pull off the basket and the enarmes from behind the shield for this. An excellent glue for this is 3M Spray Adhesive, but carpenters' glue, even cut a little with water, works too. Brush it on, smooth the canvas over it carefully, brush more dilute glue on the cloth. Get cheap canvas for this, nothing boutique. It's going to get viciously hammered, and unlike the rope edging and rawhide, it won't practicably recycle from a wrecked shield to a fresh one. Also, curved kites and heaters rock.
Doing this together with making a heater the same way as a go-with is not a bad week's project. As you'd need to take some drying time. Paint with acrylic paint from the art section of a Michael's, in your favorite color. (What to paint on your shield is worth many a post in itself.) Canvas is a great surface to paint on; hundreds of Old Masters can hardly be wrong on that!
Flexible tubing also works in place of rope. Not sure which is better, though I think the rope would be cheaper. This is, after all, an old shield.
-If possible, I'd like to get actually get into armour the next time I go, so what sorts of padding and protective gear should I bring with me? (For example, I'm assuming that groin protection is not a standard part of loaner gear)
Bring your own pubic protection; never forget it. Get the kind suitable for karate. Sports bra of course.
. . . are there any other newbie questions I should be asking?
Not yet. One day at a time!
. . . my previous knowledge acquisition was more focused on hypothetical visions of the kit I will eventually have, and unfortunately less on the details of how exactly things like swords and shields should be constructed. I'm also not entirely sure that this is the appropriate forum for this.
For the stuff you wear, Armour Design & Construction is. For hittin'-stuffs, Combat & Weapons. Melee fighting, next forum down. Clothing, probably Interpretive Rec.
Lastly, Christine, welcome and well come. Not only are you going to have a blast, you may find love in the SCA. You'll certainly find a good deal of dignified flirtation, where simply everyone pretends to be well-nigh consumed with barely contained passion. Some purpler than others.
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:51 am
by Konstantin the Red
One I missed: A heater is right if you can stand it on its point and straddle its upper edge with both feet flat on the ground. A couple inches shorter than this height is fine too -- your inseam length.
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:37 pm
by Jess
http://www.hockeyworld.com/index/page/c ... rotectors/
I have the Bauer version, but have no reason to believe it is better than the $3 Infinity brand on sale...
Re: First Fighter Practice and Questions
Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:47 pm
by BendSinister
I have but one piece of advice. If you find that a certain piece of equipment does not work for you, or even hurts you fix it, or get rid of it. I spent far too much time trying to MAKE stuff work that was never going to for me. Badly made shields, ill balanced swords and over-sized helmets make the rough experience of armoured combat into a hellish night mare. In short your own gear should not hurt you.
BS