What's the latest best helmet padding available?

[Sean Powell]

Hello,

I started the SCA on a college budget in a spun-top helm and some green 3/8" camping mat from an army/navy surplus store. It was probably less protective than even the blue walmart foam. I survived... but if I hadn't I wouldn't be typing this.

My daughter is stepping up to Div-3 youth SCA combat and she has a full adult budget backing her. I'm upgrading her from a lacrosse helm to an aluminum Valgard-6 helm kit (My god these things are tank but light!). She gets only the best. No exceptions. There is no price-tag on gear more expensive than a hospital co-pay.

So, what is THE BEST protective foam systems for helmets available from modern science? Either as sheet-foam or sport helmet kits.

Thank you,
Sean Powell

[Caius705]

I use a mix of shocktec gel and a quilted liner for my HMB helm.

It's pretty high tech, but not great for every application.

[Anton]

Oregon Aero military helmet kits.

Oregon Aero Seven Pad BLU® Kit for PASGT

https://www.oregonaero.com/helmet-upgra ... s-ordering

Anton

[ArchibaltDavis]

Hello,

I started the SCA on a college budget in a spun-top helm and some green 3/8" camping mat from an army/navy surplus store. It was probably less protective than even the blue walmart foam. I survived... but if I hadn't I wouldn't be typing this.

My daughter is stepping up to Div-3 youth SCA combat and she has a full adult budget backing her. I'm upgrading her from a lacrosse helm to an aluminum Valgard-6 helm kit (My god these things are tank but light!). She gets only the best. No exceptions. There is no price-tag on gear more expensive than a hospital co-pay.

So, what is THE BEST protective foam systems for helmets available from modern science? Either as sheet-foam or sport helmet kits.

Thank you,
Sean Powell

Well, I can't say anything about protective foam systems, because I haven't used it yet. But for head it's easy to use padded liners, which would protect your head, neck and shoulders from protect from light blunt hits and redness because of armor, that can rub.
You can look at liners here https://steel-mastery.com/padded-liners-and-caps

[boris_]

The best? (assuming you still need it) IMO is shocktec gel. I have taken a bunch of hard shield punches to the face (when I was on the ground) and I barely felt a thing. No headach after.

The system is 3/4" gel and about 1/2"ish historical padding.

[Dan Howard]

Anyone tried sea sponge? Pliny reckons that the Romans used it for helmet liners.

[LeonStar]

I am curious if there have been any test comparisons between modern padding materials and ancient methods of it. Later period knights around the late 15th and early 16th century would have used there hair as padding to an extent, so I am curious what has been written and tested in that regard.

[DukeAvery]

Dry foam is weak - 1/2" of even the best oily gel is insufficient in my opinion but 3/4" works but I prefer 1" on the brim/seats of pressure. 1" + 4 opposed chin strap points solid attached, is my recommendation - and and a scrum who knows mercy and honor the same.

After a clash, nobody ever said my helmet was too big - but it was a 1/4" inch bigger than anybody else - except a select few with neck issues.

[Konstantin the Red]

I am curious if there have been any test comparisons between modern padding materials and ancient methods of it. Later period knights around the late 15th and early 16th century would have used their hair as padding to an extent, so I am curious what has been written and tested in that regard.

Can't speak to use of abundant knightly hair for the younger military-aged set. By their late thirties and early forties, I suspect that many of them had less hair to rely on and made some changes. Every mention of this I've ever read seemed speculative in nature. There were certainly a lot of long-haired aristocrats, but there seemed to be just as many who were close-shorn like King Henry, just about shaven on the back and sides. Seems that mileage varied.

But quilted linen, either cleverly suspended (not as likely except for tournament helms -- they ran to voluminous) or really just a thick quilted cap shaped to one's head with maybe a bit extra here and there to fill in the shape of the helmet (possible, but not super necessary, with the pointy shape of a bascinet, dictated by its excellent array of glancing surfaces) remains the gold standard because it's comfortable. Rides cooler on your head than anything else, and is easily moistened at need with cold water from a canteen if you want to help sweat-cooling along, without your forehead becoming a sweat waterfall as is so often the case with foam type padding. This linen coif may be completely separate from the helm itself. You can un-helm and cool off really easy.

TL;DR: shape the cloth hood or coif to your head, not to the helm's contours. More stable on your head. You can do worse than to copy a NASA Snoopy-hat -- three pieces joined by two fore and aft seams.

Handsome 100% linen, new, runs expensive compared to cotton or tropical weight wool (not a bad choice itself, say, for colder weather) but discount linen yardage in goofy prints and colors is fine for quilting in layers. Quilting (layers like a lasagna) works better than stuffing (like sausages).

The SCA Engineered school of helm padding may feature quilted linen hoodlike/coiflike affairs, concealing a spangen-band frame of 1" wide strips of squidgey closed-cell foam as a last-ditch absorbent shock layer inside the helmet -- but a lot of air circulating around the foam strips. The strips surround your brow at the hat sweatband level and cross over the top of your head. Some ventilation gaps in the browband help with air circulation too. Much of this scheme is so you can show an inexperienced Knight's-Marshal "See, I used closed cell for this." He may still want to take a test strike series to satisfy himself you've got something that won't slosh your brains, so do some testing and comparing of your own, to be prepared.

There is a fair body of experience with this, onsite -- though I don't think it's migrated into scholarly, researched texts. (Anybody put it into an SCA publication?) With a little luck, more of us can unload the kind of info you're asking about. Guys? Let LeonStar have it.

[LeonStar]

I am curious if there have been any test comparisons between modern padding materials and ancient methods of it. Later period knights around the late 15th and early 16th century would have used their hair as padding to an extent, so I am curious what has been written and tested in that regard.

Can't speak to use of abundant knightly hair for the younger military-aged set. By their late thirties and early forties, I suspect that many of them had less hair to rely on and made some changes. Every mention of this I've ever read seemed speculative in nature. There were certainly a lot of long-haired aristocrats, but there seemed to be just as many who were close-shorn like King Henry, just about shaven on the back and sides. Seems that mileage varied.

But quilted linen, either cleverly suspended (not as likely except for tournament helms -- they ran to voluminous) or really just a thick quilted cap shaped to one's head with maybe a bit extra here and there to fill in the shape of the helmet (possible, but not super necessary, with the pointy shape of a bascinet, dictated by its excellent array of glancing surfaces) remains the gold standard because it's comfortable. Rides cooler on your head than anything else, and is easily moistened at need with cold water from a canteen if you want to help sweat-cooling along, without your forehead becoming a sweat waterfall as is so often the case with foam type padding. This linen coif may be completely separate from the helm itself. You can un-helm and cool off really easy.

TL;DR: shape the cloth hood or coif to your head, not to the helm's contours. More stable on your head. You can do worse than to copy a NASA Snoopy-hat -- three pieces joined by two fore and aft seams.

Handsome 100% linen, new, runs expensive compared to cotton or tropical weight wool (not a bad choice itself, say, for colder weather) but discount linen yardage in goofy prints and colors is fine for quilting in layers. Quilting (layers like a lasagna) works better than stuffing (like sausages).

The SCA Engineered school of helm padding may feature quilted linen hoodlike/coiflike affairs, concealing a spangen-band frame of 1" wide strips of squidgey closed-cell foam as a last-ditch absorbent shock layer inside the helmet -- but a lot of air circulating around the foam strips. The strips surround your brow at the hat sweatband level and cross over the top of your head. Some ventilation gaps in the browband help with air circulation too. Much of this scheme is so you can show an inexperienced Knight's-Marshal "See, I used closed cell for this." He may still want to take a test strike series to satisfy himself you've got something that won't slosh your brains, so do some testing and comparing of your own, to be prepared.

There is a fair body of experience with this, onsite -- though I don't think it's migrated into scholarly, researched texts. (Anybody put it into an SCA publication?) With a little luck, more of us can unload the kind of info you're asking about. Guys? Let LeonStar have it.

Have it indeed. Of course I have been focused on other matters, though I would like to do armor making as a hobby still, and I still do research it. I dont suppose your familiar with anyone in the new york city area?

[Konstantin the Red]

Sorry, but I know no one around NYC. Anyone else got somebody?

Some minutes' googling on "armor maker" and "NYC" might yield what you're looking for. And would that be SCA-style armour or more carefully historical style harness? This thread and the initial question lean to SCA gear. If so, inquiry within the Society might get you something.

Rereading the thread tells me I'm beginning to drift it -- out of forgetfulness.

[Scott Martin]

Jeff Wasson is in New York, and James Arlen is in the area. We had a brief chat about helm padding a week or so ago, so I'd drop him a line: a significant part of his commentary was that folks need to leave enough space n the helmet for padding, and the difference in size between "infantry" and "Cavalry" helmets particularly around the 16th century when there was a marked difference in the protection offered. Always remember that nobility had horses...

By the time that close helms and Burgonets are common (17th century) helmets got thinner and closer to the head, since they weren't going to stop lead bullets anyway.

Scott