The other end of the timeline-- Slings

schreiber · Post by **schreiber** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 2:56 pm

The members of my household are all great fans of slings. NOT STAFF SLINGS, which I grant are period for throwing grenades, but regular, run- of- the- mill, two pieces of string and a leather pocket slings, the kind which you'd use to send a 2-4 oz. lead slug through someone's eye.

We've been doing some experimentation over the years, and the talk about an arquebus on the field has gotten me thinking that there might be a place for slings as well.

I can say that, when using duct- taped, slit tennis balls, we can get as much range as an average SCA combat bow, with about the same degree of accuracy. A tennis ball is a little light for a telling blow (getting hit in the back at forty yards with no shirt on really smarts, but armor is another question).

My question is this: Could there ever be a place on the battlefield for slings?

There are obvious things to be resolved, and I'll list some of them...

1. Would a period sling harm the target, when wearing our standard of a maille shirt and open faced helm? (pretty obvious if in the face/ neck...)

2. What ammo would land a telling blow in SCA combat?

3. Can an authorization process be enough to keep out the people that would consistently throw backwards?

4. Would the chivalry ever allow it?

Any ideas would be appreciated.

HELMUT

ps. our household likes to go to baseball fields to throw tennis balls at each other... We're seldom more than 20Â° off target, and we can shell home from 2nd base pretty accurately. It only took about 2 hours practice to get that way.

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 5:39 pm

There used to be some people in Ansteorra that used them. I agree with you, pretty much the face is the only valid target.

As far as "telling blows" goes, I really don't think you can get one with a legal arrow/bolt. Calontir has gone to requiring the same force with a arrow or bolt as a one handed thrust. I'm not sure I have ever been shot in the face hard enough to be a valid light thrust, let alone shot hard enough in the body. (The old standards required thrusts to move you.) Personally, I think it is primarily people that don't like getting shot trying to wiggle out of taking them.

Joe Skeesick · Post by **Joe Skeesick** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 10:16 pm

FYI..... I found this link while cruising around tonight

http://www.stoneslings.com/

Lord Jack · Post by **Lord Jack** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 11:07 pm

There is already one Legend of a slinger in the northwest, "Spalding the Slayer". She can hit a 4"x4" target consistantly, so goes the tale, at 50 yards. I've never met her but the tales from both AnTirians and Westies are numerous. From her name you can guess she uses tennis balls and from the tales she is quite capable of hitting vision slots.

Lochlainn · Post by **Lochlainn** » Wed Mar 28, 2001 10:09 am

Slings are period for Roman-era personas, although the Romans themselves never used the sling widely in battle, their allies and secondary troops, typically conscripts from the Empire, would have sling units. Roman cast lead sling bullets are very common; I'm planning on casting a replica eventually.

As for telling blows against the SCA armour standard, I would think that a sling bullet would hurt a lot, and possibly crack ribs, etc., but an arrow would still cause more damage.

------------------
Lochlainn
I'm a Liberal and I'm OK!
*Insert gratuitous inflammatory remark here*

Fearghus Macildubh · Post by **Fearghus Macildubh** » Wed Mar 28, 2001 10:25 am

There is also some evidence for slinging in the early and high middle ages, the pictures might be on stoneslings website. Would they hurt someone in assumed armour? depends on how thick the gambeson was i suppose.
slainte,
fearghus

------------------
"How long will we fight? We will fight until hell freezes
over. Then we fight on the ice."
----------------------------------
The rules are: pillage first, then burn.
Failure to follow the rules will lead to
summary dismissal from the raiding team.

schreiber · Post by **schreiber** » Wed Mar 28, 2001 11:52 am

My main question is this: could it happen?

Is this something that could actually be done in the SCA?

As far as telling blows, there must still be strictly golf tube arrows out west, the baldar's and marklands I've been hit with are pretty irrefutable. The only problem is that oftentimes I have no idea what just hit me, unless it hits me dead on.

I'll grant that there will be rules restrictions as well as rhinos involved here, but I'm more interested in seeing if there's 1. Interest in having them out there and 2. Any question as to safety.

HELMUT

Norman · Post by **Norman** » Wed Mar 28, 2001 3:25 pm

Slings were used against heavy armour in the ancient Middle East (bronze helmets, lamellar, often greaves).
They used stone bullets.
The slings have remained unchanged to today -- though more jagged, random stones seem to be in use now.

If they were effective against Assyrian armour, I really don't see why they wouldn't be effective against most Medieval Armour (possibly excepting the most fancy hardened steel stuff)

------------------
Norman J. Finkelshteyn
Armour of the Silk Road - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/3505
The Silk Road Designs Armoury - http://www.enteract.com/~silkroad
Jewish Warriors - http://www.geocities.com/jewishwarriors
The Red Kaganate - http://www.geocities.com/kaganate
silkroad@spam.operamail.com (remove "spam" from e-mail to make it work)

Buran · Post by **Buran** » Wed Mar 28, 2001 4:22 pm

Try this place for sling info:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/slinging

Recently availabel: Slinging competition rules from the Balearic Islands, about 4X4 at 50 yds, yes.

------------------
<><><> <><><> <><><>
http://www.geocities.com/baldurstrand/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/California_Viking_Age

Arland · Post by **Arland** » Fri Mar 30, 2001 11:22 am

I've used a "D cell" battery in my sling and broke a 2x4 in a fence with it.

------------------
Baron Arland the Bastard
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/rivetedmaille

schreiber · Post by **schreiber** » Fri Mar 30, 2001 1:17 pm

If (hypothetically) I were on the opposing side of slings in combat, I might be tempted to say things like "Yeah, and a straw can go through a telephone pole in a hurricane" or "People have been known to fall out of an airplane at 6000ft and walk away with a broken arm".

Whether or not it would kill/ disable a warrior is one question. My main question is whether or not there is a safety issue. The safetly question is paramount, since things are determined in SCA combat primarily according to how safe they are.

HELMUT

Arland · Post by **Arland** » Fri Mar 30, 2001 3:18 pm

Of course safety is the main issue. The strings/cords from the sling could hit someone in the eyes. Thatâ€™s the biggest issue for safety. The ammo could be something as simple as split tennis balls or a bean bag.

Read the above statement on the armor they were used against in period. Failing that you can come on down and let me nail you with a 1 pound lead weight in my sling. Iâ€™m positive the only part of your â€œassumed armorâ€

schreiber · Post by **schreiber** » Sat Mar 31, 2001 11:09 am

Please don't think that I don't try it... I cast lead bullets that are about 2oz and in the typical oblong shape. I haven't tested them on mail or anything like that, but the fact that these rounded objects BUZZ like hummingbirds when I throw them is pretty freaking scary.

I don't think the strings in the bargrill argument is valid. considering that you only have to get within 10' of a light fighter to declare him dead, and considering that a LONG sling is 6' overall, the math doesn't allow for it.

I think the bigger safety issue is determining whether or not an individual is going to throw backward.

Arland: I'd love to go slinging with you sometime... last Pennsic we spent some time on the battlefield tossing tennis balls at each other... look up the Gaping Maw if you'd like to do it this year.

HELMUT

Lodhur · Post by **Lodhur** » Sat Mar 31, 2001 11:29 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Lord Jack:
There is already one Legend of a slinger in the northwest, "Spalding the Slayer". She can hit a 4"x4" target consistantly, so goes the tale, at 50 yards. I've never met her but the tales from both AnTirians and Westies are numerous. From her name you can guess she uses tennis balls and from the tales she is quite capable of hitting vision slots.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Remind me to get a better cup, before I fight in Antier. >>shiver<< I can just picture it... "Oh, you won't take that one, eh? How about this?..." But then, & tend to think of ranged weapons as just looong spears, anyway.

Buran · Post by **Buran** » Mon Apr 02, 2001 12:41 pm

I think the general point is well-taken: Beginning slingers cast their stones in all sorts of "interesting" directions.

I might add that Romans had special pincers for removing sling projectiles from inside a warrior's body cavity. So, dangerous, yes, but against armor... dunno let me test that... <;-D

Arland · Post by **Arland** » Wed Apr 04, 2001 4:42 pm

The other issue you have is that heavy fighter can also use light weapons. They had them at the Estrella Wars. If you come up behind someone, you can easily get within range of the cord from his sling. Suffice it to say, it can happen. I however am not going to worry about it. The marshals you try and pass this by may howerever worry about.

------------------
Baron Arland the Bastard
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/rivetedmaille

schreiber · Post by **schreiber** » Thu Apr 05, 2001 11:05 am

Admittedly, Baldar's Blunts have been outlawed in Atlantia and I believe in the East as well, under the "nock in the eye" possibility. But, as I would argue with a marshal, a rubber nock and a piece of string are two different things...

Ah, how good fighting must be in the west... out here there is pretty much no such thing as a heavy archer. Heavies can use throwing axes, javelins and such, but we're pretty much disallowed from using bows.

So, if anyone's a marshal, could you enlighten me as to your thoughts?

HELMUT