Hunting Spears

Hun · Post by **Hun** » Tue Feb 19, 2002 11:54 am

Anyone got good info on the design of hunting spears and the techniques used in said form of hunting (specifically hog)?
Thanks
Hun
p.s. I've already got the pit-bulls.

SyrRhys · Post by **SyrRhys** » Tue Feb 19, 2002 12:43 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Hun:
Anyone got good info on the design of hunting spears and the techniques used in said form of hunting (specifically hog)?
Thanks
Hun
p.s. I've already got the pit-bulls.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try Blackmore, H., _Hunting Weapons From the Middle Ages to the Twentieth Century_, Dover, 1971

I don't think your pit bulls will be good for this; they don't have the speed I think you'd need. Alaunts were used in period, and they were a fast, powerful breed.

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Hugh Knight
"Welcome to the Church of the Open Field, let us 'prey': Hunt hard, kill swiftly, waste nothing, make no apologies"

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Tue Feb 19, 2002 8:27 pm

In period, I believe they often hunted the boars in armor, for a good reason.

freiman the minstrel · Thu Feb 21, 2002 2:56 am

You know, this may sound silly, but, as a long shot, you might want to write to Ted Nugent, the guitar player.

He has always been quite vocal about his hobby of hunting, and he uses archaic weapons, at least he bowhunts.

I would be willing to bet he knows somebody who hunts pigs with a spear, if you could get a letter to him.

I think I should say that hunting pigs with a spear is dangerous. I think it might be safe to say that some people would call it stupid. I do stupid things all the time, but I feel like it would be irresponsible to encourage you. Use a rifle. Pigs eat people, too.

muttman · Post by **muttman** » Thu Feb 21, 2002 8:35 am

"I don't think your pit bulls will be good for this; they don't have the speed I think you'd need. Alaunts were used in period, and they were a fast, powerful breed."

Pit bulls are used fairly often for boar hunting and have proven to be more than up to the task. They are in fact one of the more highly regarded breeds for the job. There are even bloodlines raised especialy for this purpose. They have adequate speed for the job, and anything they lack in speed they make up in enduarance, drive, and ability to withstand and dish out punishement. The trick as I understand it is A) they need to be trained young. Pit bulls are not a social breed and frequently don`t play well with others. To get them working in a pack toward a common goal can be tough. Stay away from hotter lines as pit bulls are well known for chomping on each other in high excitement situations, and you really want a couple, three dogs to work a boar. Different kinds of armor can be made and worn for the dogs too if you wish, and some of the dog/hunting magazines carry it. I would use them for ideas and make my own. I would also get up with some folks who do use bulldogs for boar hunting and learn from them before risking your dogs this way. As said above, boars are very dangerous beasts and should not be tackled lightly.
BTW Hun, what lines of dogs do you have? I have Colby, Wildside, Garner Sorrell dogs.
As to spears, Cold Steel makes something they tout as a boar spear. I would avoid it. I would recomend you have something custom made for the job as most of the production spears out there may be questionable and you don`t want to find that out when a four hundred pound hog is barreling towards you with a full blown mad on. The possible exception to that may be Arms and Armor, run by Chris Poor. Either way, I would bring a .45 along just in case.
Good luck, but use your head!
John

SyrRhys · Post by **SyrRhys** » Thu Feb 21, 2002 9:23 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by muttman:
Pit bulls are used fairly often for boar hunting and have proven to be more than up to the task. They are in fact one of the more highly regarded breeds for the job.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is really interesting to me! Thanks for the correction; I was just theorizing based on what I thought I knew about pit bulls, but theory has to get slapped down by fact!

I wasn't aware *anyone* was using dogs for boar. Where is this done? How many dogs are typically used? You talk about different lines; is there a different look to these? Most of the pit bulls I've seen simply don't have the speed to keep up with a boar; are the ones to which you're referring a bit longer in the leg? What does the hunter use for the kill? When you're hunting boar with dogs you don't want to use a projectile weapon because of the chance of hitting a dog, so are people really using spears or swords somewhere today? Do they lose a lot of dogs? Even alaunts used to get killed, so I would think pit bulls might take quite a bit of damage.

Sorry about all of the questions, but hunting (with hawks and greyhounds, not pit bulls, but still...) is the main focus of my life right now, and I wasn't aware anyone was doing anything quite this neat.

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Hugh Knight
"Welcome to the Church of the Open Field, let us 'prey': Hunt hard, kill swiftly, waste nothing, make no apologies"

muttman · Post by **muttman** » Thu Feb 21, 2002 9:50 am

I don`t know a whole lot about the subject, but heres what I do know; The dog hunting is generaly done down south against razorbacks. I believe two to five dogs are generaly used. Different bloodlines throw different traits, including levels of inherent dog aggresion. You want a less hot line for working with other dogs. Speed as far as I know has not been an issue, but there is a wide range of body type allowable in the ADBA breed standard, some will be leggier. The hunter frequently uses a bowie knife for the kill. The dogs catch and hold the boar and the hunter delivers the "coup de grace" I see no reason a spear couldn`t be used. Or a sword. As long as your weapon control was good. Dogs do die, but pit bulls are generaly very sturdy dogs and highly resistant to shock, so this helps keep that in check.
I can answer more questions later, but I`m getting ready to leave now. If this seems short its only because I`m trying to get max. info out quick. I can look into names of people and clubs that do hunt with bulldogs, but that may take me a little time.
Later
John

The Lost Scott · Post by **The Lost Scott** » Thu Feb 21, 2002 9:58 am

Just about every "Red Neck" or "Cracker" in Florida has a dog cage in the back of their truck and a pack (or at least a couple)of dogs for pig hunting. Some of the kids I went to High School with would cruise up and down the high way and roads near the wooded/swampy area with heir dogs and when they saw a pig toss the dogs out to go after them.

LS

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Thu Feb 21, 2002 10:30 am

http://www.grimfells.org/
Go to the personal web page links, Pavel's page and his story section for an account of a boar hunt with spears.

muttman · Post by **muttman** » Thu Feb 21, 2002 10:31 am

Lost Scott is right. Other popular dogs are Cataloua Lepard Dogs, Black Mouth Curs, American Bulldogs, Alahapa Bluebloods, and mixes of the above. Any of the above and pit bulls may or may not be used in conjunction with various scent and sight hounds to bring the quarry to bay and then release the catch dogs ie. the big guns to actualy bring the boar down.
Also of note: there is here in New Hampshire an old preserve gone wild in which a population of now feral Russian boars live. These are big, nasty, no nonsense beasts. Sometimes hunts are organized for them, but I don`t know any details. I could maybe find out. These boars are closer to the old European boars and are nastier than the already rough enough southern razorbacks.
John

Krag · Post by **Krag** » Thu Feb 21, 2002 10:40 am

Plott hounds, curs and walker hounds are the typical tracking dogs down here. They generally don't use the bull dogs or pit bulls if it's a trophy hunt since they actually go in and take the boar down. The others keep them at bay until the hunter shows up...give or take a nip here and there.
The boars are usually roped and walked out to a road or right of way before being shot. No one wants to drag a 4-500lb dead pig through a swamp bottom!

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Krag von Berghen
KragAxe Armoury

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Hun · Post by **Hun** » Thu Feb 21, 2002 11:30 am

Honestly, I don't know the dog's line, but my fiance's uncle breeds them for hog dogs. He also uses catahoulas. I've seen him bring back a dog (Tony) with guts hangin out, sterilize him, stich him and the dog still hunts, three years later. Of course he usually catches the hogs live for sale to game farms. Coincidentaly, these are SW Louisiana marsh razorbacks. Thanks for all the help. Anyone got Chris Poor's URL?
Hun

The Lost Scott · Post by **The Lost Scott** » Thu Feb 21, 2002 11:38 am

A few years ago (mid 90's I think)at Fish eating Creek in SW Florida a hunter brought down a 900 lb boar with a spear I whish I could find the artical about it.

LS

muttman · Post by **muttman** » Thu Feb 21, 2002 12:49 pm

http://www.armor.com/
http://www.armor.com/2000/catalog/spears.html
Try these

Einarr · Post by **Einarr** » Thu Feb 21, 2002 1:32 pm

Hun,Any old stick with a sharp metal end will do.I have seen boars and even black bears and tigers hunted this way.the blades are usually 12-18inches long witha guard at the rear to prevent the piggy from being completly run through.The real hunters are the dogs that bay the pigs(curs,coonhounds,catahoulas).Pit bulls are ussually used as catcth dogs that just hold the pig once the faster dogs catch and bay him.Then its just a matter of walking up and sticking him inthe side.People even do it with knife,or just tie the pig up and then let him go.
The key is to find a guy who has well trained pack of dogs,and knows what he his doing.
On a side note to Syr Rhys what do you hunt with greyhounds,and do you use them with your bird?Just curious.
I love to hunt ,in the woods ,and in melees.

SyrRhys · Post by **SyrRhys** » Thu Feb 21, 2002 2:31 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Einarr:
On a side note to Syr Rhys what do you hunt with greyhounds,and do you use them with your bird?Just curious.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hunt rabbits, hares (twice!), groundhogs (no real challenge, but it makes farmers happy enough to let me hunt their land), fox and things like that. My dream is to use them on deer, but although I've been on one deer hunt with greyhounds I haven't found a way to do it myself yet.

No, I don't hunt my greys with my hawk. There's a reference to a "levriers" (usually translated as greyhound, but it really means hare hounds) being used to assist falcons on cranes in Frederick II's _The Art of Falcony_, and in the middle east they use salukis with their falcons on gazelle (note the similar idea? falcons and sighthounds work together on really big game), but no one, as far as I know, does that in this country. Sighthounds are killers. That's what they're for. Hawks are killers, too. You use scenthounds with hawks (to find and flush game), but you usually don't use sighthounds and hawks together.

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Hugh Knight
"Welcome to the Church of the Open Field, let us 'prey': Hunt hard, kill swiftly, waste nothing, make no apologies"

SyrRhys · Post by **SyrRhys** » Thu Feb 21, 2002 2:44 pm

By the way, Hun, there's an excellent description of how to hunt boars with weapons and hounds in Gaston Phoebus' _the Book of the Hunt_ that you might find interesting. Amazon carries a facsimile of this book (with a partial translation) under the name _The Hunting Book of Gaston Phebus_. I *highly* recommend it.

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Hugh Knight
"Welcome to the Church of the Open Field, let us 'prey': Hunt hard, kill swiftly, waste nothing, make no apologies"

Fearghus Macildubh · Post by **Fearghus Macildubh** » Fri Feb 22, 2002 3:53 am

there is a chateau in the loire valley, the name escapes me,clemenceau maybe, that my wife and i visted the last time i was on leave. there they have a pack of hounds for what they call venarie. venarie is hunting with hounds alone. no firearms. i'm not sure if they use spears or long knives to finish off the game, which is mostly deer for this particular pack. the hounds are a cross between the pointvin (sp) and fox hound. big dogs, problably around 110-130 lbs, rangy, but solidly built. i visited the the chateau because it had an armour room, which was a dissappointment, but the hounds and the kennelmaster were worth the entry price.
Slainte,
Fearghus

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