wow... hello
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Kinoshita Takemitsu
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wow... hello
well its been quite a while since i've been back to this site. well as you certainly could have noticed. i'm currently in between personas, and since i believe my armor should be able to go with my persona i'm at a loss as to what to make to go with diffrent personas. i've been doing 16th centruy scottish for a bit and that's the only persona i've come up with so far. i've been playing around with the idea of doing a japanese persona so i dove into researching that., but i keep coming back to my roots since my heritage is primarily scottish. any suggestions would be great.... especially if you can help me find pics of armor...
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Kenwrec Wulfe
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OOohh... Scottish and Japanese....
Why am I hearing Queen in my head?
J/K
In all seriousness... If you keep feeling drawn back to your roots, I would work from there.
Why am I hearing Queen in my head?
J/K
In all seriousness... If you keep feeling drawn back to your roots, I would work from there.
Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit. -Aristotle
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Patton Lives
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- Location: University of Alabama in Huntsville
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Kinoshita Takemitsu
- Archive Member
- Posts: 52
- Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 2:01 am
- Location: kissimmee
- Contact:
any links would be great...
since i don't know what lh is then i'm probably not in it... i'm in the SCA and am currently an unauthorized fighter...
i'm thinking for armor due to another's advice
13th/ 14th centrury scottish
i'm going to to do a tabard covered coat of plates... visible parts will be splinted arms and legs, chain mail short sleeves (for looks) and a chainmail camaile...
since i don't know what lh is then i'm probably not in it... i'm in the SCA and am currently an unauthorized fighter...
i'm thinking for armor due to another's advice
13th/ 14th centrury scottish
i'm going to to do a tabard covered coat of plates... visible parts will be splinted arms and legs, chain mail short sleeves (for looks) and a chainmail camaile...
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freiman the minstrel
- Archive Member
- Posts: 9271
- Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2001 2:01 am
- Location: Oberbibrach, Bavaria
ccartee,
Fourteenth century seems relatively simple, compared to some of the later stuff.
Before I start, remember that I am a minstrel, not an armorer. I am also not much of a historian. Most of my info comes from this very archive. Also let me say that you might want to post this same question to the "Armor, design and construction" board on this archive. That's where the serious hammer swingers spend more of their time. This is where the sword and stick swingers hang out.
I am assuming for this that you want to make gear for SCA fighting that is as inexpensive as possible. Not that I am assuming that you are poor, or cheap or anything like that. I have to make an assumption or two. If I am wrong, then please let me know. I am also assuming that you want to make gear that has a historic appearance, amd I am using a five foot assumption. This means that the gear looks plausibly period from five feet away. Since it's SCA gear, we will be cutting some corners on the appearance, but I will be trying to steer you away from stuff that looks like hockey gear. I am also assuming that you don't sew. If you do sew, this stuff gets a lot easier.
I think I am relatively safe in saying that Scottish gear will be slightly out of date English gear. The english gear of the fourteenth century is pretty well documented.
OK, lets start with the gambeson. This is a padded jacket that fits under your armor. This is a really great thing to have, but many SCA fighters go without it. It should be made of linen or cotton. Linen is better. If you live in Trimaris, Meridies, Gleanne Abhain or Ansteorra, and you make your gambeson (sometiems called an Aketon) out of some polyester blend, you will come to hate the garment quickly, because it will be hot and nasty. Needless to say, your padding needs to be made out of a natural fibre or you lost the benefits of the natural fabric. Cotton Batting is pretty cheap. The garment should really be custom made, but I make due with one I bought off the rack at pennsic from Red Falcon Armory for Seventy bucks. I absolutely love mine. For the thirteenth century it will be a little longer than the fourteenth.
OK, the helm. If you want to be a really period studly type, and get a lot of compliments on your gear, go with a pig faced bascinet. This was state of the art man at arms gear from the hundred years war. If you want to save a buck or two, and still look relatively good on the SCA list field, go with a barr grille bascinet. Same helmet shell, but with bars across the face for better visiblility and breathing. It is a popular helm with SCA big sticks. Either way, you want one that is made by welding two separate halves together. There is an economy SCA helm that is sometimes called a bascinet that is made with what is called a spun dome. These are cheap and legal, but they will throw the appearance off quite a bit. In addition, the dome tends to make the helm top heavy. If you have to save thirty bucks, Ashcraft baker has spun dome helms for about ninety bucks, and I saw a pretty good bascinet for one twenty the other day.
Body armor. The best body armor to go with on the cheap seems to be the amazing Wisby Coat of Plates. It is relativly easy to make, and it is as period as the day is long. It is made with a leather backing, and a cloth top. Plates of steel are riveted in between the two. OK, here's the good part. If you don't have the facilities to work steel, it can be done with leather, plastic, or with linoleum, or whatever. You can get really creative with the CoP. I have seen a couple that I though were just plain smart that were made entirely with washable materials (cloth instead of leather) and it had pockets for the plates. When it got dirty, the owners pulled the plates out, and threw their armor in the washer. Plastic will be hot, steel will be heavy, and leather will be prone to damage from humidity and sweat. Aluminum might be your best bet. If you are seriously budgeting, legally acquired sign metal is really cheap.
Here's a pattern
http://www.armourarchive.org/patterns/wisby_cop/
OK arms and legs. You might seriously consider buying your arms and legs. If you decide to make them yourself, you might want plastic. Plastic has a lot of disadvantages, but cost is not one of them. If you do go with plastic, cover it with a durable velvet-like material and put several rows of rivets down the front. I have a friend that does this, and is plastic legs are indestinguishable from period legs until you touch them. The velvet should be attached after the holes are drilled, and the holes for the rivets and straps should be drilled before the fabric is attached. The fabric can be glued on with Elmer's contact cement and then you can use clothespins to hold it in place while it dries. then use an awl to make the holes in the fabric. Knees without cuisses are relatively cheap. Stonekeep armory has five piece knees for fifty bucks or less. If you absolutley have to, you can probably bang out basic floating copps on any dishing stump fairly cheaply and easily. This requires access to a jigsaw, dishing stump and a hammer. Arms can be made the same way.
A leather gorget is pretty simple. Make a poster board pattern, and then carefully cut it out of heavy leather.
Hand protection is a little more difficult. The best thing to do is to buy or make clamshell gauntlets. The cheaper and easier alternative is to use half gauntlets and basket hilts. Ashcraft baker has ten dollar basket hilts.
Did I forget anything?
freiman
Fourteenth century seems relatively simple, compared to some of the later stuff.
Before I start, remember that I am a minstrel, not an armorer. I am also not much of a historian. Most of my info comes from this very archive. Also let me say that you might want to post this same question to the "Armor, design and construction" board on this archive. That's where the serious hammer swingers spend more of their time. This is where the sword and stick swingers hang out.
I am assuming for this that you want to make gear for SCA fighting that is as inexpensive as possible. Not that I am assuming that you are poor, or cheap or anything like that. I have to make an assumption or two. If I am wrong, then please let me know. I am also assuming that you want to make gear that has a historic appearance, amd I am using a five foot assumption. This means that the gear looks plausibly period from five feet away. Since it's SCA gear, we will be cutting some corners on the appearance, but I will be trying to steer you away from stuff that looks like hockey gear. I am also assuming that you don't sew. If you do sew, this stuff gets a lot easier.
I think I am relatively safe in saying that Scottish gear will be slightly out of date English gear. The english gear of the fourteenth century is pretty well documented.
OK, lets start with the gambeson. This is a padded jacket that fits under your armor. This is a really great thing to have, but many SCA fighters go without it. It should be made of linen or cotton. Linen is better. If you live in Trimaris, Meridies, Gleanne Abhain or Ansteorra, and you make your gambeson (sometiems called an Aketon) out of some polyester blend, you will come to hate the garment quickly, because it will be hot and nasty. Needless to say, your padding needs to be made out of a natural fibre or you lost the benefits of the natural fabric. Cotton Batting is pretty cheap. The garment should really be custom made, but I make due with one I bought off the rack at pennsic from Red Falcon Armory for Seventy bucks. I absolutely love mine. For the thirteenth century it will be a little longer than the fourteenth.
OK, the helm. If you want to be a really period studly type, and get a lot of compliments on your gear, go with a pig faced bascinet. This was state of the art man at arms gear from the hundred years war. If you want to save a buck or two, and still look relatively good on the SCA list field, go with a barr grille bascinet. Same helmet shell, but with bars across the face for better visiblility and breathing. It is a popular helm with SCA big sticks. Either way, you want one that is made by welding two separate halves together. There is an economy SCA helm that is sometimes called a bascinet that is made with what is called a spun dome. These are cheap and legal, but they will throw the appearance off quite a bit. In addition, the dome tends to make the helm top heavy. If you have to save thirty bucks, Ashcraft baker has spun dome helms for about ninety bucks, and I saw a pretty good bascinet for one twenty the other day.
Body armor. The best body armor to go with on the cheap seems to be the amazing Wisby Coat of Plates. It is relativly easy to make, and it is as period as the day is long. It is made with a leather backing, and a cloth top. Plates of steel are riveted in between the two. OK, here's the good part. If you don't have the facilities to work steel, it can be done with leather, plastic, or with linoleum, or whatever. You can get really creative with the CoP. I have seen a couple that I though were just plain smart that were made entirely with washable materials (cloth instead of leather) and it had pockets for the plates. When it got dirty, the owners pulled the plates out, and threw their armor in the washer. Plastic will be hot, steel will be heavy, and leather will be prone to damage from humidity and sweat. Aluminum might be your best bet. If you are seriously budgeting, legally acquired sign metal is really cheap.
Here's a pattern
http://www.armourarchive.org/patterns/wisby_cop/
OK arms and legs. You might seriously consider buying your arms and legs. If you decide to make them yourself, you might want plastic. Plastic has a lot of disadvantages, but cost is not one of them. If you do go with plastic, cover it with a durable velvet-like material and put several rows of rivets down the front. I have a friend that does this, and is plastic legs are indestinguishable from period legs until you touch them. The velvet should be attached after the holes are drilled, and the holes for the rivets and straps should be drilled before the fabric is attached. The fabric can be glued on with Elmer's contact cement and then you can use clothespins to hold it in place while it dries. then use an awl to make the holes in the fabric. Knees without cuisses are relatively cheap. Stonekeep armory has five piece knees for fifty bucks or less. If you absolutley have to, you can probably bang out basic floating copps on any dishing stump fairly cheaply and easily. This requires access to a jigsaw, dishing stump and a hammer. Arms can be made the same way.
A leather gorget is pretty simple. Make a poster board pattern, and then carefully cut it out of heavy leather.
Hand protection is a little more difficult. The best thing to do is to buy or make clamshell gauntlets. The cheaper and easier alternative is to use half gauntlets and basket hilts. Ashcraft baker has ten dollar basket hilts.
Did I forget anything?
freiman
Act Your Rage