BTW, just to put it into perspective. Our current SEM is the same man that is contemplating BANNING Siloflex Swords Society Wide on the basis that they are "Laminated blade" and that the reasoning for allowing them in the first place is now no longer an issue.
Maeryk wrote:BTW, just to put it into perspective. Our current SEM is the same man that is contemplating BANNING Siloflex Swords Society Wide on the basis that they are "Laminated blade" and that the reasoning for allowing them in the first place is now no longer an issue.
God i hope so.. I so hate getting hit with those freakin clubs.
Maeryk
Odo wrote:Mateo,
I will take your word that there has been only good experiences with side sword in Northshield and the Mid. But that does not preclude problems with side sword in other parts of the world.
I can see the SEM only talking to those Kingdoms where he has witnessed problems first hand. And I can see where he would have spoken to the SRM who is in charge of the whole side sword thing and not all the marsals who run it in their respective regions.
The SEM saw something that was not right. And that was enough for him to stop side sword as it was being practiced. When and if it is fixed to his satisfaction then maybe it will continue. I will say that if I was not permitted to fight in a manner that I felt was safe, I would take my toys and go where I could fight.
My recommendation (for whatever it is worth) would be to contact him with empirical data supporting the continuance of side sword. Combine your efforts with those of KEM's, KRM's or whomever will support your conclusions and present that to the SEM. I would think that with such information in hand he could better understand where and how the problems that he observed came into being.
Ulrich wrote: The Side-sword demo I saw at an event here in Meridies, (RUM) was basically a class on rapier with slashes, grappling, trips and pushes. Is that what it’s supposed to be? I’m not sure but I don’t think that’s what it is supposed to be.
Regards,
Ulrich
Ulrich, you were being a moron. This isn't Dungeons and Dragons, you're not a righteous defender of goodness. Demanding an apology was stupid. It was fucking stupid. You made me giggle like a little girl. I was embarrassed for you, and that's bad, because I am a LARPer! I see bad acting and melodrama most people only dream about, but you take the cake.
Man, some people have lives outside of the SCA. That being said, that means they don't have to resolve disputes with a rattan stick. You don't fight, you play stick tag, is that a duel? You may as well pillow fight. You think you're defending some beautiful damsel that will give you a castle and a pet dragon if you are victorious?
Stop with the honor and chivalry crap. Judicial combat in the SCA? SCA is a group of carpet clad fat men with no lives or friends pretending they are Knights in some fantasy realm of cleanliness and honor to a stupid degree. I'm sure two honorable men with no lives who can't see their feet and spend their entire paychecks from the fast food restaurant on polyester and plastic for their kits can solve their differences in a mock pseudo-medieval environment befitting that of Medieval Times restaurant, but real people with jobs and families might want to do something a little less childish and stupid.
fsckingscarks wrote:Okay, I'm definately not going to win any friends saying this, but all you SCArks need to get over yourselves. Get over your noble selves and your honor, chivalry, and all the other pretend crap you throw at each other while basking in one another's glory.
Ulrich, you were being a moron. This isn't Dungeons and Dragons, you're not a righteous defender of goodness. Demanding an apology was stupid. It was fucking stupid. You made me giggle like a little girl. I was embarrassed for you, and that's bad, because I am a LARPer! I see bad acting and melodrama most people only dream about, but you take the cake.
Man, some people have lives outside of the SCA. That being said, that means they don't have to resolve disputes with a rattan stick. You don't fight, you play stick tag, is that a duel? You may as well pillow fight. You think you're defending some beautiful damsel that will give you a castle and a pet dragon if you are victorious?
Stop with the honor and chivalry crap. Judicial combat in the SCA? SCA is a group of carpet clad fat men with no lives or friends pretending they are Knights in some fantasy realm of cleanliness and honor to a stupid degree. I'm sure two honorable men with no lives who can't see their feet and spend their entire paychecks from the fast food restaurant on polyester and plastic for their kits can solve their differences in a mock pseudo-medieval environment befitting that of Medieval Times restaurant, but real people with jobs and families might want to do something a little less childish and stupid.
So Ulrich, get off your high horse (you are a knight, you have a horse, right?) stop the bad play acting, and get a goddamned life please.
So I 'demand' you apologize to Josh Warren, or you can meet me on the field with fucking nerf guns and I will beat an apology out of you. You fucking dipshit.
Mateo wrote:House of the Wolf wrote:Mateo, before I go off completely uninformed, let me ask a question. Are you your Kingdom's Side-Sword representitive? If you are, and you did not recieve communication on the experiment, then you have every right to be upset.
While I am not the Side Sword Marshal in charge of the kingdom, I am one of the few Side Sword Marshals for the Kingdom of Northshield, and communicate very closely with the person in charge of the experiment here. He did not recieve warning of any kind before the first missive went out to the public.
You made a point about standards - I would mention that those standards existed for the side sword project. It would not have been approved if they had not been written down. You can refer to the official sidesword rules if you like, which have been posted elsewhere on this board (the other thread). They are very clear.Earl Robert has traveled, at his own expense, to every kingdom currently participating in the side-sword experiment. He has watched the demos, spoken with the marshals involved. His decision is based off of these observations and conversations with these marshals.
Has he been to the middle, or Northshield? I have not seen him or heared of his presence, though I could be wrong. In this part of the country, the experiment is highly controlled, very safe, and very uniform. I would suggest that perhaps His Grace had not visited here, or if he had, he had witnessed some kind of anomaly. Every single side sword practice, class, event, etc that I have witness, participated, or taught in has adheared to the minimums set down by the rules, and the intention of the project there in.Being responsible for the safety of every marshal related activity in every part of the SCA is a tremendous responsibility, one that is impoosible to please everyone. Safety MUST be the first consideration. Knowing Sir Robert to be a rough and tumble, agressive fighter, knowing his abhorence for active marshaling, (i.e.: excessive holds, etc), and knowing his love for fighting, the SCA, and his job as Society EM, I think I can say with some confiedence that he did not come to his decision lightly. Nor did he ban side-sword. He said get your stuff standardized and then let's move forward.
I do not know the man, but am happy to trust other's judgement of him. However, his actions in this have led to many questions from those who feel very much in the dark. For better or for worse, deserved or not, that has been the net effect in many cases. I recognize his job is difficult, and he has a great responsibility. In truth, I wish that the office of SEM did not have control over all aspects of the martial arts in the SCA, but that is a dead horse of a different color.
I would assert that by Earl Roberts own words, no injury has been reported. I would assert that safety has been the primary concern for the project from it's inception, knowing that people get jittery about steel work. I don't see the safety argument as having much validity, at least from the perspective of a former midrealm sidesword marshal who is currently one of 3 Sidesword marshals in Northshield.
Either way, I recognize that the project is merely on hold. Frustrating as it is that I cannot participate in this very enjoyable activity for the next 90 days at a minimum within the confines of the SCA, I have no problem with trying to make it work.
I will say, however, that if there is an impossible standard of carbon-copy work accross the globe, it will never come to fruition. We have the miniums you describe. Those people making the point about how heavy is different speak of calibration differences, blow calling ettiquete differences....the list goes on and on. Holding sidesword to a standard we do not hold the other arts to hedges the bets against it, I think.
DukeGareth wrote:Am I the only one who read the part of Robert's letter that said he discussed all of this with the SRM Aedun and he agreed? Would it not be more productive to ask the SRM questions, as he is the one responsible for controlling the experiment? Or is it simply easier to take aim at "the establishment" and assume that "the powers that be" are being unfair.
Also, Robert never said he communicated with every single person involved in the experiment.
He didn't even say he spoke with every single KEM. What he did say is based on his own observations there seemed to be a vast amount of difference in how the experiment was being conducted and the rules explained in different Kingdoms, and Master Aedun agreed.
Earl Robert has traveled, at his own expense, to every kingdom currently participating in the side-sword experiment. He has watched the demos, spoken with the marshals involved. His decision is based off of these observations and conversations with these marshals.
Irish wrote:Frankly, what surprised me is that some form of basic rules weren't set down by the SEM for everyone BEFORE the experiment began, instead of groups developing their own versions, which is what seems to have happened.
Dilan
DukeGareth wrote:By the way, I would like to see what Josh's kit looks like so someone please post it or direct me to a url. Also, what is his society name?
InsaneIrish wrote:DukeGareth wrote:By the way, I would like to see what Josh's kit looks like so someone please post it or direct me to a url. Also, what is his society name?
Here is a pic of Josh's Kit:
http://josh.mediumaevum.com/KSU%20Demo%20031.jpg
He is the one on the right in full plate.
Illadore wrote:So, those of you that practiced sidesword or got to actually see it in action -- what did you like about it and what didn't you like about it?
Illadore
Illadore wrote:So, those of you that practiced sidesword or got to actually see it in action -- what did you like about it and what didn't you like about it?
Illadore
Mateo wrote:Your Grace, I did indeed read the letter. And, as you have suggested, have made my opinions known to the powers that be. In fact, it is the very first thing I did regarding this issue. Information and responses have been slow in the coming, which is understandable given the workload of the SEM.
I am not taking shots at the "establishment". I am having a discussion with other gentles regarding my opinions on a current issue. If it has appeared so, then I can only say that im sorry that was the perception. It was not my intention.
That being said, I am very frustrated with the establishment, more spicifically with the way it has handled this issue. I believe it was not handled well. I'm sorry if you disagree with me, Your Grace, but that's an opinion that I'm entitled to. And one (I hope) I am entitled to express. I welcome any discussion about those opinions, as I am not so inflexible as to not listen to good reason.Also, Robert never said he communicated with every single person involved in the experiment.
Nor did I claim that, to my knowledge (mateo run back to make sure). In fact, one of my issues is that he barely discussed it with *anybody*.He didn't even say he spoke with every single KEM. What he did say is based on his own observations there seemed to be a vast amount of difference in how the experiment was being conducted and the rules explained in different Kingdoms, and Master Aedun agreed.
In fact, to my knowledge I have not yet found a KEM that he *did* talk to before making this decision. Again, one of my concerns. I find his observations to be inaccurate, unfortunately, given my region and the way in which we have been participating in the project. I also (at risk of sounding repetitive) find it hard to believe that we were the only ones doing it right. But to read his only statement on the subject, it seems that everyone was doing it wrong, or that it was so uncontrolled as to be unsafe. And yet, there had been no injuries. That is, at least, the impression I got from reading it, and I doubt i'm alone in that.Earl Robert has traveled, at his own expense, to every kingdom currently participating in the side-sword experiment. He has watched the demos, spoken with the marshals involved. His decision is based off of these observations and conversations with these marshals.
Your Grace, the above is the quote that confuses me the most, made by another poster. My logical issue is this. *if* Earl Robert had traveled to the middle, and *if* he has witnessed our demos or practices, or what have you, I do not understand how he could have drawn the conclusions laid out in his statements. We were doing it *right* at the very least in Illinois and Wisconsin, easily the highest concentration of Side Sword combatants in the two kingdoms therein.
DukeGareth wrote:Mateo,
Of course you have a right to state and discuss your opinion. My point was that perhaps some of the complaints and criticism should be reserved for the SRM Master Aedun.
How many KEM's have you spoken with? Please list their names and the Kingdom they represent.
When you say he "barely discussed it with anybody" to whom do you refer? He apparently discussed it with the SRM who agreed that halting the experiment is a good idea.
I understand that you are frustrated but impugning the SEM's character by stating that he "barely discussed it with anybody" will do your cause no good. Besides you have no way of knowing who he did discuss it with so your statement has no validity.
Also, to keep quoting the person who said Robert went to every Kingdom that had the experiment is spurious. Perhaps this gentle was mistaken but Robert never said he visited each and every Kingdom participating in the experiment.
As far as being disappointed with the establishment you have that right as well. However making sweeping statements that you cannot prove does nothing but lessen your credibility, in my opinion.
I have no stake in this discussion, I merely wanted to point out that a calm and rational discourse can sway hearts and minds while a malicious attack will only serve to divide. I will not post on this subject again. As a friend of mine once said "When you wrestle with pigs you both get muddy, the difference is the pig enjoys it." I am finished rolling in this particular puddle.
Cuan wrote:These little things, coupled with some other fiats that have come down without, as far as I can discern, prior discussion between the SEM and the KEMs, gives me reason to wonder if the SEM and SRM are on the same page and to question the reasoning and process behind the cancellation (however temporarily) of the sidesword experiment.
Cuan
