The Armour Archive

I have a question about the weight of helms. I'm wondering what the average weight is. Mine is 6.8 lbs. It's a very basic helm.

I live in the Kingdom of An Tir and our requirements for helms are "constructed of steel of no less than 16 gauge or of an approved equivalent material".

I don't know a lot about metals - is there a way to get a lighter weight helm but still meet the Kingdom requirements? Is Titanium an option?

I hear that's is very light weight and very strong. But I also hear a lot of fighters think it's not a good thing to use although I'm not quite sure the reasoning.

I realize 6.8 lbs. isn't that much but I'm dealing with some vertebrae issues and I don't want to stop fighting since I just starting getting back into it after tearing my ACL at a fighter practice two years ago.

So I want to see if there's a possibility for a lighter helm.

Any advice, thoughts or similar experiences?

Livia Tasia
Three Mountains
An Tir

One of the biggest things protecting you from injury is the mass (weight) of the helm. It is probably not a good idea to use a helm that weights much less then one made of 16 gauge steel.

So at 6.8 lbs., it's really not a good idea to go with something less? Thanks for the info. I wish I understood metals more.

Livia Tasia

8-10# helms absorb a lot more impact, so your kneck doesn't have too...

Plus, 16g won't look as good, for as long.

my Master Eldred 11ga SS bascinet with stainless camail is in the neighborhood of 12-15#

TI and other lightweight materials are not allowed to be used for helmets. ( http://sca.org/officers/marshal/combat/ ... ndards.pdf)

1. Helms:
a. Helms shall be constructed of steel of no less than 16 gauge, or of equivalent material. Be
aware that steel of less than .0625 inch (1/16 inch or 1.6 mm) is too thin, even if it is sold as
16 gauge. Alternative materials such as stainless steel, brass, bronze, or like materials are
permissible as long as the material is equivalent to 16-gauge steel. (Note also that the mass of
the helm is an important part of the protection. No titanium, fiberglass, or other ultra-light
materials may be used.) If a spun-metal top is to be used in the construction of the helm, it
shall be a minimum of 14-gauge steel. The process of spinning the top thins the metal, thereby
requiring a heavier gauge.

liviatasia wrote:I have a question about the weight of helms. I'm wondering what the average weight is. Mine is 6.8 lbs. It's a very basic helm.

I live in the Kingdom of An Tir and our requirements for helms are "constructed of steel of no less than 16 gauge or of an approved equivalent material".

I don't know a lot about metals - is there a way to get a lighter weight helm but still meet the Kingdom requirements? Is Titanium an option?

I hear that's is very light weight and very strong. But I also hear a lot of fighters think it's not a good thing to use although I'm not quite sure the reasoning.

I realize 6.8 lbs. isn't that much but I'm dealing with some vertebrae issues and I don't want to stop fighting since I just starting getting back into it after tearing my ACL at a fighter practice two years ago.

So I want to see if there's a possibility for a lighter helm.

Any advice, thoughts or similar experiences?

Livia Tasia
Three Mountains
An Tir

I appreciate your concern for your neck. Perhaps you should investigate some of the helm designs that effectively transfer weight of the helm onto the shoulders.

I would look into armets and closehelms. There are also some bascinet designs that might provide a similar benefit.

I would definitely not recommend going to a lighter helm, as then your head and neck would be subjected to greater impact when blows landed.

Gavin

My current helm is about 9.5 lbs, and is lighter than my old helm. I have fought in lighter helms and I really do notice that the heavier ones make a significant difference in absorbing weight. I used to get neck aches when I started fighting, but I just tried to make sure I didn't overdo it at any one practice and my neck ended up gaining 3" in circumference in the first 6 months I was fighting. Now I really don't feel the weight. It meant I had to get rid of most of my old "choker" necklaces, (and several nice dresses with the 4" I gained around my back), but I feel more secure in my heavy helm and am very happy with it.

Your mileage may vary.

-Jimena

Oh, and by the way, I forgot to add that I got a compression fracture in my L1 vertabra 5 years before I started fighting, so I have a lower back weight issue, but as I gradually worked up my armor time, and did additional isolating exercises, it has ceased to bother me in armor, and the fighting seems to have actually improved it. I'm not sure where your vertabra issues are; if they are in your neck, I'd ask a personal trainer or physical therapist if there are exercises to help strengthen the surrounding muscles. But I am much happier with the heavier helm, now that I am used to it.

You should seek possible physical therapy or research various ways to strengthen your neck and back muscles. I'd suggest that and for a couple weeks before throwing stick again. There are tons of exercises for the back and neck. Just make sure to use light weights and go for higher reps. There are several exercises you can do from home as well, no gym required. That will get those muscles ready for athletic action. Also stretch before and after ya fight.

Something to think about when dealing with 16 ga steel. The industry allows for 7 thousands of an inch margin of error when producing steel, it does not sounds like much, but it means that a sheet of 16 ga can often be medium thickness 17 ga.
I have handled an imported helm sold as a 16 ga helm, and suitable for sca combat, but it was infact 17 ga, and not a thick 17.
I have made some non sca helms from 16 ga, one fell from my bench to the floor and took a decent dent.
I do not recomend 16 ga be used in any structural portion of an sca helm.

I put a kind of long explanation on concussions in this thread:

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=12179

You might find it an interesting read.

The basic essence is that your head is an object at rest which is being acted upon by an object in motion. Your brain is an object at rest inside the object which is being acted upon (your head or scull.) Your helm has a material requirement and a guage thereof requirement to insure that it GETS enough weight, which makes your head a heavier object at rest, so that the object in motion has much less effect upon it. IE, so your head doesn't move when the thug with the stick hits it. 6 pounds is got to be pretty close to the safe minimum for a helm, and if you fight in a harder hitting area (you do) I'd look into the suggestions above. You would be better served by finding a way to wear a slightly heavier helm, IMHO. NOT at the expense of your vertebrea, of course. Disk compression is bad.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

So it sounds almost like a heavier helm may be even better? And is there any sort of website that describes the different sort of SCA helms?

Kilkenny stated:
Perhaps you should investigate some of the helm designs that effectively transfer weight of the helm onto the shoulders. I would look into armets and closehelms. There are also some bascinet designs that might provide a similar benefit.

I've searched Yahoo but not really coming up with much on helms in general. Let alone the ones that were mentioned.

I start physical therapy this week. My neurologist is cool with my fighting although he wants me to start out at 10 minutes per day with the helm on and work up to longer amounts of time to see if it will aggravate my neck. I promised I'd be honest with him if it did. The affected vertebrae's are 7 and 8.

They can't do fusion, so it'll have to be vertebrae replacement which is currently in human trials (that apparently last a couple of years).

So if anyone knows of the type of helm that Kilkenny mentioned and where to get them, I'd like to try one out and see if it works.

Also does anyone else have vertebrae/neck issues that they are dealing with and if so what things are you doing in addition to strengthening muscles around the area like Jimena mentioned?

Again, my thanks for the advice.

Livia Tasia
An Tir

What you are talking about could be one of several types of helms.

A great bascinet could ride on the shoulders, but would hamper you in things like turning your head, they were made primarily for use in the joust where you are facing straight ahead.

A close helmet with a turret ring would also fit the bill.

I tend to wear a heavy helm because impact does a great many things to your neck. the more you isolate the movement the less impact transfers through your padding and metal. a heavy helm and a nice gorget are really the answer.compression ( unless you have prior injury) is really the least of the worries the shock of getting wtruck with a light helm on causes your head to tilt and your muscles fight to realign your neck upright and in the process help pull your C vertibra out of line. this can cause you migraines, sinus issues, et al... a few helpful tips;

take a look at making a gorget with a higher than average back-of-the-neck section. and also attaching shoulder armor to the gorget to lessen the movement of your neck. ( turning your head is good but flopping to the side=bad)
also there are preventitive things you can do in armor .. with helm on and laying on your back ALWAYS roll over and use your arms to help push yourself upright. DONT take a hand to get up. this causes your neck to pull forward and can irritate existing conditions. aka when on your back roll over and get to your knees then take a hand up...once your head is upright you shouldnt irritate things.



Ive been learning the hard way.. been seeing the chiropractor three times a week for three months now and have another four months left...

liviatasia wrote:So at 6.8 lbs., it's really not a good idea to go with something less? Thanks for the info. I wish I understood metals more.

Livia Tasia

It isn't really anything at all to do with the metal being used. It is all about the weight.

When a volkswagen hits a semi trailer on the highway, the semi driver lives and the volkswagen driver dies. Why? The steel in the semi isn't better quality than the steel in the car. It is quite similar, there is just more of it in the semi. It is the weight of the semi that causes it to move less, cushioning the driver. The volkswagen is quite light so the driver inside of it gets thrown around all over the place while the vehicle tears apart. So in this example, you want to be in the heavy semi (helmet) so that the light volkswagen (rattan) can't knock your driver (brain) all around the cab (skull). Hope that analogy makes sense.

While SCA illegal, Titanium would be a fine material for SCA helms. Only problem would be that it would have to be really thick to give the helmet proper weight. So if you could make a titanium helmet that was similar weight to a steel helmet, it would work fine. But it would be the weight of the helmet protecting your head, not the magic of Ti.

I am a believer in lightening every part of your armour except your head. 12-14 ga Stainless is a fine material to make helmets from, especially here in An Tir. And pad it well too. You don't want to end up talking like Muhammed Ali.

As far as the neck injury, I would imagine that if you head moved less when hit, it would be helpful to reducing strain on your neck. You head will move less with a heavy helmet that with a light one.

I can't say for certain but 6.8 lbs. sounds too light for a helmet to me. I would be happier around 9-10 pounds. Padding is important. Closed cell with a layer of open cell inside is nice. The open cell will make the hat fit really well and provide comfort and progressive resistance while the closed will prevent bottoming out.

Hrogn