So how many types of madus' are there?

[Odo]

I could strike you harder in the future if you would like Your Grace . I would like to correct one point. The ax head is not "floppy". It stays in position quite well and I have used it on occasion to pull shieldmen over when attacking a shield wall. I don't think that would be possible if it were "floppy". I will admit it is ugly, but having used it for many years now I am rather attached to it. I had a nicer looking one, but then the rules were changed so that my ax was 6" to short for me to use with a but spike. When I made the replacement ax I made the blade longer specificly to help avoid striking people with the buckler. This resulted in the uglier ax I have today.

Funny. It is so nice of you to "hold off" and not hit me harder. I think I can handle the pain so I guess you should hit me harder with the axe head. The problem is that now you run the risk of shield bashing me. I wouldn't take too kindly to that.

The problem with the axe punch is that the head doesn't land squarely. It is hard to call. And I HAVE been hit with the buckler. Granted it was some time ago. (I can't tell you the last time we fought outside of Crown a couple ago so I guess that shows how current this has been, just making an observation).

I am somewhat entertained by people who complain about this stlye not being period. So far, the people who have discussed this with me refuse to give up their indestructable shields. They will also continue to fight from there knees after having there leg hacked off. Wouldn't it be much more period for them to lie on the ground and scream after losing their leg? I am likewise entertained by people who tell me why I fight with the afore mentioned style. For those that want to know it's mostly because I found the static style of sword and shield boring. I much prefer the more mobile style of using two weapons.

I hate all two weapon forms. I picked up the spear because it is the most fun for me. I won't complain of others fighting the styles they enjoy, too much anyway.

You make the assumption that all leg wounds would be debilitating (you state that the fighter would 'lose' their leg when I believe the rules state that they lose the "use' of the leg). I think that all leg wounds would hinder movement, and some would disable the fighter immediately, but not all. And for the record, I have taken a leg as a death in tourney, and I refuse to fight from my knees in practice. But that is just me.

Lets face it. SCA combat is a sport. It is set with a cool historical background. It also espouses a great set of values. It is this that elevates SCA combat far above other sports in my eyes. It is however, still a sport. It is not period reenactment. There are organizations that do that. The SCA is not one of them. If you doubt that we could begin by discussing the use of the title "Lord" and go on from there.

The SCA is supposed to be inclusive. How can someone in the SCA justify condeming others for being different? The attitude of "these people don't play like I do so they have to go" just baffles me. How would you feel if the SCA was outlawed for being different? Grown men who run around in funny clothes, hitting people with sticks, should not make fun of others because they don't wear the same funny clothes. Yes, there are rules. The rule says you have to make an "attempt" at pre 17th century clothing. There you go. If you want an organization that requires more that's fine. I'm sure you can find one. It's just not the SCA. I think we would be better served by putting more effort into living by the knightly virtues, and being examples of chivalric behavior than in just trying to look like knights.

These are my thoughts on the subject. I'm new to this forum. I've been around the SCA for a couple of decades. I'm a Knight and a Duke. I don't know if that qualifies me as an expert or not .

Well stated. And as far as being an expert, you are as much as the next guy. And your opinion counts for as much as the SCA titles you own, online anyway!

Regards,
Odo

[Roibeard MacNeill]

Gentlemen,
I had posted a pic earlier (on page 3 of this thread) of the Madu I am working on without a buckler. Attached is a pic with the buckler. All it needs now is the shield edging and it is ready to go. Again, Comments and opinions are most welcome. I must reiterate that this is not a primary weapon for me. I have always found that learning and knowing different weapons and styles makes us all better rounded combatants..."know thine ally, know thine enemy" so to speak.
It is always refreshing to read so many candid opinions on combat and the like.

Cheers,

Rabhairt

[Roibeard MacNeill]

My apologies...I left out the Pic...

Rabhairt

[white mountain armoury]

"If you are completely committed to a more period form of combat, you should simply call leg blows as a death. Again, I have yet to see anyone that committed to more period combat. "

I have, Asbjorn's been doing that for year now.

I have been taking legs as a death blow for a long time, due both to a search for authenticity and for me the discomfort of kneeling.
In regards to weapon forms and madus etc, i try and match my weapon and shield forms and shapes to the portrayal i am making,(which changes almost yearly) I like it when folks do the same, a heater on a viking annoys me as much as a madu. I tend to think there are greater authenticity worries than a madu like object.

[Roibeard MacNeill]

On the leg-blow-as-death issue...are those of you who ascribe to this convention giving yourselves a time allotment for the leg to "cause" death or are you doing it instantaneously? I think a timed leg-as-death rule would truly give combat a greater authenticity. A too-quick submission to the leg wound would take away from this and limit your viable fighting time considerably.

[Cet]

"I have been taking legs as a death blow for a long time, due both to a search for authenticity and for me the discomfort of kneeling. "

So Adam and AS' make two. Cool. I may be joining you guys as well given the current state of my joints. I'm of two minds on the issue to some degree. I hate knee fighting because I think it is about the stupidest and most undignified thing we do- I can't picture a medieval man at arms squating on the ground like a toad but at the same time I recognize that it's a long standing(?!) tradition in the Society.

[St. George]

In tournaments where I am able, I offer counted blows rather than limb loss and knee fighting. At the same time, I understand that this is a game that we are playing and that fighting from the knees is part of the rule set.

Alaric

[DELETEMYACCOUNT]

I tend to take legs as deaths as well, I figure if it was a wound that would send me to my knees it would pretty much preclude me fighting at that point anyway. So not an instant death, but a debilitating wound.

[white mountain armoury]

For me its alot of reasons, my knees hurt, i think it looks odd, then add small things like having to kneel in my Rus trousers or my shiney polyenes on pavement or cement or many other odd surfaces.
Stressing articulations etc.
I dont think having a time period in which a wound "bleeds out" is someplace i want to go.
I do other odd things that keep me happy as well, i dont single sword thrust to any closed faced helm things like that, im glad our game allows one to adjust for personal likes and dislikes.

[Asbjorn Johansen]

On the leg-blow-as-death issue...are those of you who ascribe to this convention giving yourselves a time allotment for the leg to "cause" death or are you doing it instantaneously? I think a timed leg-as-death rule would truly give combat a greater authenticity. A too-quick submission to the leg wound would take away from this and limit your viable fighting time considerably.

I don't think a timed fight from your knees would model the accounts we have available to us any better. Folks for the most part seemed to have either fought a fairly close to 100% mobility and either stopped fighting, called for quarter, had judges stop the fight.

I haven't found it to be particularly limiting. Since the last time I fought from my knees (an Eastern Crown in the fall of 2002), I've won several small and mid sized tournies and had a couple of decent runs in larger tournaments. More importantly, I've enjoyed my fighting more.

Asbjorn

[Roibeard MacNeill]

I don't think a timed fight from your knees would model the accounts we have available to us any better. Folks for the most part seemed to have either fought a fairly close to 100% mobility and either stopped fighting, called for quarter, had judges stop the fight.

Your Excellency,
Many thanks for the information and clarification. Now these conventions are being applied to a Tournament (such as the Historic Combat Series you organize at Pennsic) and tournament only? Am I correct in that assumption? Could these leg-as-death conventions be so applied to a Grand Melee or War? If so, would the death then be timed or will the chaotic nature of the battle not allow a marshal to enforce such a convention?
In hindsight, I would tend to agree with you that a Leg-as-death would make the combat of a tourney more fun and more accurate in a tournament setting (as you are not having to now concentrate on Turtling yourself for protection and having to turn to a better combat vantage point all while thinking of those aching joints!).
I've been out of combat for far too long...looking forward to donning my armour once again...outside of workout.

Slainte...

Rabhairt