DukeAlaric (George S.) wrote:PS- IIRC, In Caid, Madus like Gunnar's axe thing were banned if they had a basket hilt on them. Someone (not me) felt that the punching motion with your hand right next to the axe head was too much like a punch dagger.
I hate that thing. It is crap. And it doesn't hit very hard at all. The only good part about it is the butt spike. I have taken the buckler in the face a few times and it sucks. And when I am fighting well I defeat it.
Odo wrote:I hate that thing. It is crap. And it doesn't hit very hard at all. The only good part about it is the butt spike. I have taken the buckler in the face a few times and it sucks. And when I am fighting well I defeat it.
Odo
I hated them too. A lot of people were complaining about getting hit in the face with the basket hilt in Caid too. It upset a lot of people there too, as they all said they were really just getting punched and couldn't tell if it was basket ot axe that was hitting them.
What you say pretty much sums up how I feel about Madu's in general. I hate seeing them in my opponent's hands, and when I am on I am probably going to win.
A lot of people are too nice to Madu fighters, and take marginal thrusts when they shouldn't, so Madu fighters get the feeling that they don't have to hit hard. It throws off the whole fight.
Labels is why I started this discussion, I know that I can't convince others what they think my style is, I am correcting myself. I had realised that I accepted what others had called the style I had seen without researching or anything, in other words being a lazy idiot. When I found this out I was pissed at myself that I just accepted the status quo, I was better than that. So when I say that I will not call my style madu its not to convince myself or others its just that I like to speak the truth. What others think may only effect paths that I wouldn't want to go down if I had to chnage myself anyway. What it all comes down to is the great quote from above "Sword hits helm your dead"
Wilhelm Schwartze Leopard wrote: What it all comes down to is the great quote from above "Sword hits helm your dead"
Wilhelm
If the SCA were just a fight club, then you sure would be right, but it is more than just that. This is where many people, like Animal and others, who even though they have been around the SCA for 20+ years, just don't get it. The SCA is not just a fight club.
Plenty of people use it as such though, and get offended when you start to tell them that the SCA has a set of rules and a structure that we as members have to buy into to make it work, i.e. like it says on the inside of the Caidan crowns- You Rule Because They Believe. Groups who use the SCA, and individuals who flaunt their disrespect of that concept are the fundamental breakdown point in the system. No one has to play along, but everyone should to make the game better. Every individual who makes the choice to not be medieval, either in action, costuming, or weapon choice- by deciding that they can wear sneakers instead of proper shoes, wear a bascinet with samurai armor, or dress like a Gor warlord doesn't promote the game that the majority of the SCA is trying to play, and certainly degrades it. What selfish crapulence!
In a strict reading of the rules, when the sword hits the helmet, someone has lost the fight, but there is a lot more to the SCA than that. Feel free to not get it. Likewise, just because something isn't specifically disallowed in the SCA doesn't make it right or OK. The SCA tries to police itself first through peer pressure, and I guess some people just don't want to hear it. Because the SCA is overly inclusive, however, people will use it as a fight club, and thereby run roughshod over the general principles of the SCA- that it is a party with a European Medieval theme- not a fantasy organization.
If you want to "fight" someone with weird non-European or of questionable period weapons like a Madu, or have a persona disrespectful towards the theme of the SCA, then go somewhere else and play (if you insist on having a non-European persona then when you come to our party, play by our rules). I just wish more people would respect the SCA when they come and play in it, but what do they care, it's just a place for them to come and fight or participate in wars.
"If the SCA were just a fight club, then you sure would be right, but it is more than just that. This is where many people, like Animal and others, who even though they have been around the SCA for 20+ years, just don't get it. The SCA is not just a fight club."
Unfortunately to a lot of people, it is just a fight club. These are the people fighting in the minimal armor, plastic stuff to get an edge. These are the people that think rattan fighting is fun and go to hit people with sticks then party. There are also those that have nothing on their body if it isnt documentable and made with the proper stitch count. A lot of folks seem to fall in between that and are most content to do so. This isnt living history and expecting it to be only leads to your own frustration. Most of the folks that I deal with personally love history but understand that there has to be a compromise to play this game and are willing to make such compromise to have a good time and enjoy their hobby. A good example is the group local that I go fight with now. A lot of the guys there look as good as they fight. Jason, Rollo, their knight Dirk*, these guys kick ASS and look great doing it! Down to the turnshoes! But you know what, if I made another madu and showed up with it to fight them I seriously doubt they'd whine at me about it.
"Plenty of people use it as such though, and get offended when you start to tell them that the SCA has a set of rules and a structure that we as members have to buy into to make it work, i.e. like it says on the inside of the Caidan crowns- You Rule Because They Believe. Groups who use the SCA, and individuals who flaunt their disrespect of that concept are the fundamental breakdown point in the system. No one has to play along, but everyone should to make the game better. Every individual who makes the choice to not be medieval, either in action, costuming, or weapon choice- by deciding that they can wear sneakers instead of proper shoes, wear a bascinet with samurai armor, or dress like a Gor warlord doesn't promote the game that the majority of the SCA is trying to play, and certainly degrades it. What selfish crapulence!"
I've seen and dealt with the people you're talking about. Honestly, going to an SCA event and being a dick just for the sake of being a dick isnt cool. But I gotta tell you, there's a middle ground. Going too far in the other direction is just as bad. A lot of folks I talk to that arent as concerned with the historical accuracy arent thumbing their noses at the rules as much as they're thumbing their noses at the people they perceive as representing those rules that have been utter cocks to them. Face it. A lot of your chivalry types are real assholes to the rank and file types. I cant blame the rank and file types that dont wanna play along because duke sir so-and-so was a flaming asshole to them and their group. I wouldnt.
"In a strict reading of the rules, when the sword hits the helmet, someone has lost the fight, but there is a lot more to the SCA than that. Feel free to not get it."
There is no 'strict reading of the rules' that I've ever been able to pin down. It's open to interpretation. And getting pissy because someone reads it differently than you do isnt chivalrous or manly.
"Likewise, just because something isn't specifically disallowed in the SCA doesn't make it right or OK. The SCA tries to police itself first through peer pressure, and I guess some people just don't want to hear it."
You're right. Some people dont want to hear it. IMO a lot of that is because of the way it's presented. If you personally came up to me at an event and was an ass to me because of my armor or my choice of weapons I'd treat you not like a duke or a knight, but like someone that was an ass. Period. But if you came to me and said to me how I might make my armor more period, or showed me a more period choice of weapons, acted like someone who had something in common with me due to the hobby we shared I'd be a lot more respectful and responsive to that. Just lagelling someone a jerk because they arent doing it your way isnt the answer. I'm not saying that's your express intent, but I am stating that's how you are coming off.
"Because the SCA is overly inclusive, however, people will use it as a fight club, and thereby run roughshod over the general principles of the SCA- that it is a party with a European Medieval theme- not a fantasy organization. "
You're right. You're gonna have that element. There are always gonna be folks that just do their own thing and to hell with the rest. Ever go to pennsic? It's there in spades. Captain Morgan pirates and gypsies and all that crap. But I think if you took the time to reach out to someone that would care enough to post a thread like this rather than immediately label them a deviant you'd get more of your point across.
"If you want to "fight" someone with weird non-European or of questionable period weapons like a Madu, or have a persona disrespectful towards the theme of the SCA, then go somewhere else and play"
How is a persoa 'disrespectful'? Inappropriate, out of period. But disrespectful? Who is going out of their way to piss on your leg? I assure you if I were to go to an event where you were in my fine Mongol garb with my fine Mongol armor, my fine Mongol bow with bowcase and matching quiver, it would be the furthest thing from my mind to be offering you offense. Maybe there are folks that do that but I've never met one. There are many levels to this game and not everyone is capable or inclined to play as devotedly as others. You make a very good point about being over inclusive. But if you draw 50 people and 10 of them stay, and evolve their kits and their persona and their devotion to your level, isnt that worth the other bullshit that necessarily comes along? I think it is.
"(if you insist on having a non-European persona then when you come to our party, play by our rules). I just wish more people would respect the SCA when they come and play in it, but what do they care, it's just a place for them to come and fight or participate in wars."
I'm sure that some of the people that come to events feel this way. I share your wish that people would be respectful of the game we play. Between you and I, I enjoy a fight a lot more when my opponent is armored well and has their shit straight. It facilitates my fantasy to the point where it feels to me like I'm really being medieval. But I'm also willing to understand that a lot of the people that come to these events and share this hobby arent there to be medieval. They're there to be SCA people. Shunning them isnt gonna help that. Labelling them isnt gonna change that. Reaching out and educating them will.
Just my non-expert opinion.
*The majority of the fighters at the workout I go to look as good as they fight. These were just three folks I picked out and I didnt list them all because I'm wordy and long winded enough as it is. No slight meant to the cynnabar guys, they're proving to be great folks.
If you want to "fight" someone with weird non-European or of questionable period weapons like a Madu, or have a persona disrespectful towards the theme of the SCA, then go somewhere else and play (if you insist on having a non-European persona then when you come to our party, play by our rules). I just wish more people would respect the SCA when they come and play in it, but what do they care, it's just a place for them to come and fight or participate in wars.
Which is why I was irritated at myself for accepting the name for the style I was using I don't have a basket hilt or a punch axe I fight with a spear in a gaunteted hand, I know spears where in europe, did they fight with them the way I do? Havn't seen any proof but I know the weapon was there and the one thing there has been proof of, suicidal weirdos have been in history since time beggining. I joined the SCA over twenty years ago for one reason only they where a group of people who accepted a geeky kid without question, the fighting is just a fun thing I do between playing with some of the great people in the world, the wonderful nutcases of the SCA.
"they can wear sneakers instead of proper shoes, wear a bascinet with samurai armor, or dress like a Gor warlord doesn't promote the game that the majority of the SCA is trying to play, and certainly degrades it. What selfish crapulence!"
So until you have the money for a custom built kabuto, or a hand-made pair of "period" boots, your a disgrace to the SCA and your selfish.
Wilhelm Schwartze Leopard wrote: What it all comes down to is the great quote from above "Sword hits helm your dead"
Wilhelm
If the SCA were just a fight club, then you sure would be right, but it is more than just that. This is where many people, like Animal and others, who even though they have been around the SCA for 20+ years, just don't get it. The SCA is not just a fight club.
Plenty of people use it as such though, and get offended when you start to tell them that the SCA has a set of rules and a structure that we as members have to buy into to make it work, i.e. like it says on the inside of the Caidan crowns- You Rule Because They Believe. Groups who use the SCA, and individuals who flaunt their disrespect of that concept are the fundamental breakdown point in the system. No one has to play along, but everyone should to make the game better. Every individual who makes the choice to not be medieval, either in action, costuming, or weapon choice- by deciding that they can wear sneakers instead of proper shoes, wear a bascinet with samurai armor, or dress like a Gor warlord doesn't promote the game that the majority of the SCA is trying to play, and certainly degrades it. What selfish crapulence!
In a strict reading of the rules, when the sword hits the helmet, someone has lost the fight, but there is a lot more to the SCA than that. Feel free to not get it. Likewise, just because something isn't specifically disallowed in the SCA doesn't make it right or OK. The SCA tries to police itself first through peer pressure, and I guess some people just don't want to hear it. Because the SCA is overly inclusive, however, people will use it as a fight club, and thereby run roughshod over the general principles of the SCA- that it is a party with a European Medieval theme- not a fantasy organization.
If you want to "fight" someone with weird non-European or of questionable period weapons like a Madu, or have a persona disrespectful towards the theme of the SCA, then go somewhere else and play (if you insist on having a non-European persona then when you come to our party, play by our rules). I just wish more people would respect the SCA when they come and play in it, but what do they care, it's just a place for them to come and fight or participate in wars.
Alaric
I had to re read that 3 times over two days to let my thoughts gell on it and it comes back to what I first thought:
wow.
just wow.
I am now of the opinion that I can no longer say, "I love the SCA." I must now say, "I love MY SCA." cause that ain't the game I signed up for.
Eddie Costello
(SCA-Cedric the Just of Dorchester)
--or--
Ceddie
---------------
WATONGO!
Everyone has their own version of the game we all play. What chaps my ass is when folks try and imply their version is the only valid version and pull high school crap like peer pressure to advance their own personal agendas. That's just weak.
I am all about the peer pressure to make things cooler. I think that people working towards a common goal and encouraging others in that direction is great. When it becomes a problem is when those applying the pressure lose sight of the free will to do as we see fit.
I will use myself as an example.
My wife and I, for a few years, have been actively encouraging our group to make our camp look better. ie: more period tents, fewer Coleman chairs. To that end, we help people find tents that they can afford. We help them build furniture that look closer to the feel that we are looking for. What we DON’T do and in my opinion, what would be crossing the line is to say “you modern stuff is crap and you have to f**k off and camp somewhere else or don’t come to the event until you meet my standard.
It really is sad when people are so insecure in what they do that they must measure their own worth by others achievements or lack thereof. I make my own fun at events, what others do or how they look doesn’t matter a wet slap to me. Well, it does but not enough to take away from my good time with my friends.
Eddie Costello
(SCA-Cedric the Just of Dorchester)
--or--
Ceddie
---------------
WATONGO!
Ceddie you make a good point. There are as you pointed out, different types of peer pressure. I've been doing the same thing you just illustrated among our guys. Trying to up the quality of armor by educating dogs, helping them to make better armor, or in some cases just making it for them.
When I use the term peer pressure its because it has the connotation to me of the high school bullshit and that's how I meant it in my post.
First off, SVHS rules. Go Vikings! Class of 95 baby.
Second, I figured I would put my two cents in here because I fight with Wilhelm every week.
I will have to tell you Wilhelm that the issue of the term "madu" and the opinions that are attached to the weapon you fight with will not go away, and a lot of people will always look at you as a "madu" fighter. One thing to keep in mind about how people will label you is how you wield the weapon. When people think of spear, they think of holding it parallel to the ground and poking with it, not holding it vertically.
I don't think there is anything wrong with it. I enjoy our fights, and I think I can honestly say that everyone at practice enjoys fighting you as well.
To me, a fight is as fun as you make it. I enjoy fighting. Who cares what my opponent has as long as it's legal? As a squire aspiring to reach knighthood, I should be prepared to face anything and anyone that I do battle with, therefore I welcome fighting ALL weapons forms, whether they are undoubtedly period or "skeptical".
As for that "punching" axe with the buttspike i read about above, I believe that is called a bardiche, and if you think a person can't hit hard enough with it using a punching motion, you probably haven't fought my knight when he wields it. And from what I understand (secondhand mind you) it's a perfectly period weapon. And I'm not sure how the cup hilt was mounted, but my knight uses a full gauntlet that wraps around the haft of the weapon, and the axe head is mounted above and below his hand.
Brian de Lorne "I know you belive you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Brian de Lorne wrote:As for that "punching" axe with the buttspike i read about above, I believe that is called a bardiche, and if you think a person can't hit hard enough with it using a punching motion, you probably haven't fought my knight when he wields it. And from what I understand (secondhand mind you) it's a perfectly period weapon. And I'm not sure how the cup hilt was mounted, but my knight uses a full gauntlet that wraps around the haft of the weapon, and the axe head is mounted above and below his hand.
Notice the floppy looking axe head? Also, what you cannot see is that his hand is in a buckler that slides up and down the shaft of the axe. When it is too close to the head, you get buckler to the face. When it is too far from the axe head, you get squishy to the face. It doesn't hit hard.
I don't think your knight wields this weapon. But even so, I would welcome the opportunity to fight him, with whatever weapon style he chooses. Because that is what I like to do.
Brian de Lorne wrote:As for that "punching" axe with the buttspike i read about above, I believe that is called a bardiche, and if you think a person can't hit hard enough with it using a punching motion, you probably haven't fought my knight when he wields it. And from what I understand (secondhand mind you) it's a perfectly period weapon. And I'm not sure how the cup hilt was mounted, but my knight uses a full gauntlet that wraps around the haft of the weapon, and the axe head is mounted above and below his hand.
Notice the floppy looking axe head? Also, what you cannot see is that his hand is in a buckler that slides up and down the shaft of the axe. When it is too close to the head, you get buckler to the face. When it is too far from the axe head, you get squishy to the face. It doesn't hit hard.
I don't think your knight wields this weapon. But even so, I would welcome the opportunity to fight him, with whatever weapon style he chooses. Because that is what I like to do.
Regards, Odo
That is not the weapon I speak of for sure, and I can definitely see the validity of the complaint on that thing. If he were to punch to the face and I tilted my head as I'm want to do, I'd get a face full of fist no doubt. Not cool.
If you turn that axe head into a long crescent axe blade that literally wraps down around the hand and mounts below the hand as well as above, then you have what I was talking about. I wish I could find a picture of it. I know Jonathan Blackbow and Syr Justus de Tyre also fight with the axe I speak of.
Brian de Lorne "I know you belive you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Your Grace, if you're at Gulf Wars, he does plenty of pick ups after the battles each day. Just look for the giant blue pavilion full of Atlantians. I would like the opportunity to cross weapons with you as well, it would be an honor and a great learning experience for me.
Brian de Lorne "I know you belive you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Brian de Lorne wrote:Your Grace, if you're at Gulf Wars, he does plenty of pick ups after the battles each day. Just look for the giant blue pavilion full of Atlantians. I would like the opportunity to cross weapons with you as well, it would be an honor and a great learning experience for me.
Unfortunately my employers for the past three years are CPA's. March is Corp. tax filing deadline, which has led them to disallow vacation. I may be there, but no promises. And if I do get to GW's this year I will look you up.
Here is His Majesty Janos fighting with a bardiche...
"I think you're wrong in your understanding of fighting.... though what you have written is very manly, it does not convey a real sense of clue...." - Sir Christian The German
"So until you have the money for a custom built kabuto, or a hand-made pair of "period" boots, your a disgrace to the SCA and your selfish. "
No, but you have to draw a line with members eventually, and finally tell people that they should do something different- especially long term members (if someone is new and still putting their stuff together than they should get some slack), however if you are a Duke who still wear jeans, sunglasses, and t-tunics, someone needs to tell you you are setting a bad example. This is also why I disagree with Ceddie about the Coleman chairs. Most people in the SCA are fundamentally lazy.
Ultimately people sometimes have to be regulated as no amount of any kind of peer pressure is going to alter their course. If you don't tell mr. lazy bottom, or miss I don't care that coleman chairs are out of place, they won't get rid of them. Look at all the crud that Logan had to go through when he banned them in Atlantia. Do their Courts look better now? Sure, people show up in covered chairs, or period looking furniture, and pictures actually look somwehat medieval, and not like a backyard camping convention. Likewise, in Caid, fighters on the field look much better now that non-period visible armor isn't acceptable, and the shinai fighters are gone.
Do I do all those things to support people in making the SCA look better? Sure, I help with armor, and furniture. Trouble is most people don't want help. They want to leave things the way they are.
I've said it time and time again. A lot of SCA people dont go to SCA events to be medieval. They go to be SCA people. Nothing wrong with that. If that's not your trip then console yourself that your camp is way cooler than theirs is and your armor iwas way cooler than theirs is. If they dont wanna listen they wont.
i agree 100% with you alaric. it is all about laziness. just had this discussion (well i talked to a brick wall, it just disagreed) a few days ago with someone suggesting people build chair covers like hers. she also made a cover that slips over her ez up. i suggested doing it right the first time (wooden chairs with a canvas day shade) instead of spending more money (which i also proved) on this modern crap and then more money to hide it poorly. nobody is fooled by a fabric slip over a coleman chair.
but, i actually only banned modern seating from my courts. the changes that are being seen around the field however are a direct result of getting rid of the tshirt, blue jean wearing crowd from the field. it has begun to spread and others are starting to improve their appearance. its very inspiring. we have a long way to go yet and i look forward to watching the improvement continue.
as for madus or axes being used to punch at people and the like. i find them unimpressive and non effective. i do use a single handed, one ended, spear thats 5' long but only when i have to face someone doing the silly two sword stuff. at least mine is somewhat proper.
regards
logan
DukeAlaric (George S.) wrote:"So until you have the money for a custom built kabuto, or a hand-made pair of "period" boots, your a disgrace to the SCA and your selfish. "
No, but you have to draw a line with members eventually, and finally tell people that they should do something different- especially long term members (if someone is new and still putting their stuff together than they should get some slack), however if you are a Duke who still wear jeans, sunglasses, and t-tunics, someone needs to tell you you are setting a bad example. This is also why I disagree with Ceddie about the Coleman chairs. Most people in the SCA are fundamentally lazy.
Ultimately people sometimes have to be regulated as no amount of any kind of peer pressure is going to alter their course. If you don't tell mr. lazy bottom, or miss I don't care that coleman chairs are out of place, they won't get rid of them. Look at all the crud that Logan had to go through when he banned them in Atlantia. Do their Courts look better now? Sure, people show up in covered chairs, or period looking furniture, and pictures actually look somwehat medieval, and not like a backyard camping convention. Likewise, in Caid, fighters on the field look much better now that non-period visible armor isn't acceptable, and the shinai fighters are gone.
Do I do all those things to support people in making the SCA look better? Sure, I help with armor, and furniture. Trouble is most people don't want help. They want to leave things the way they are.
Alaric
Ebonwoulfe Armory is fully stocked with spears again! For now the only way to order them is to send an email to ebonwoulfearmory@gmail.com with the quantity and your shipping address. We will send a PayPal invoice in response including your shipping cost.
dukelogan wrote:i agree 100% with you alaric. it is all about laziness. just had this discussion (well i talked to a brick wall, it just disagreed) a few days ago with someone suggesting people build chair covers like hers. she also made a cover that slips over her ez up. i suggested doing it right the first time (wooden chairs with a canvas day shade) instead of spending more money (which i also proved) on this modern crap and then more money to hide it poorly. nobody is fooled by a fabric slip over a coleman chair.
but, i actually only banned modern seating from my courts. the changes that are being seen around the field however are a direct result of getting rid of the tshirt, blue jean wearing crowd from the field. it has begun to spread and others are starting to improve their appearance. its very inspiring. we have a long way to go yet and i look forward to watching the improvement continue.
OT but something to think about Duke Logan is an incentive program. Currently ABC ent. (HL Robert Brockman and Myself) offer an incentive program for the purchase of our medievaloid camp chairs. simply bring in your coleman or knockoff tube chair and receive $20 toward the purchase of one of our Gothic inspired colapsable camp chairs. We sell these chairs for $150 a piece and $250 a pair. So, if you bring in 2 tube chairs (limit 2 tube chairs for a pair of gothic chairs, must be currently used tube chairs of course) you can get $40 off the purchase of a set of much more appealing wooden chairs.
We (ABC ent.) are trying to do our part to make the SCA look better.
Anyway, maybe looking into some kind of incentive program might help?
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Insane Irish
Quote: "Nissan Maxima"
(on Pennsic) I know that movie. It is the 13th warrior. A bunch of guys in armour that doesn't match itself or anybody elses, go on a trip and argue and get drunk and get laid and then fight Tuchux.
I really dislike Coleman chairs. A also don’t care for pop up tarps, some of my comrades in arms mock me (in a friendly way) cause I will stand in the sun rather than use them. The thing is: I won’t tell others what they can and cannot do. I will lead by example. I will help them. I will show them that it is cheaper, easier and more fulfilling to do it right the first time.
I am also a hypocrite because I use a modern grill and a cooler. It is all about where we draw our own lines and weather or not we force our values on others.
DukeAlaric (George S.) wrote: Look at all the crud that Logan had to go through when he banned them in Atlantia. Do their Courts look better now? Sure, people show up in covered chairs, or period looking furniture, and pictures actually look somwehat medieval, and not like a backyard camping convention.
Alaric
Do you not see the problem with this? It is fine for folks to bring camera's, video equipment, lighting etc to take a pictures of folks acting medieval? Is it also ok to use pda's, cell phones and laptops?
I think the guy standing in the corner with a flash camera is why more obnoxious medievally than a coleman chair. But that is just where my line is drawn.
DukeAlaric (George S.) wrote: Look at all the crud that Logan had to go through when he banned them in Atlantia. Do their Courts look better now? Sure, people show up in covered chairs, or period looking furniture, and pictures actually look somwehat medieval, and not like a backyard camping convention.
Alaric
Do you not see the problem with this? It is fine for folks to bring camera's, video equipment, lighting etc to take a pictures of folks acting medieval? Is it also ok to use pda's, cell phones and laptops?
I think the guy standing in the corner with a flash camera is why more obnoxious medievally than a coleman chair. But that is just where my line is drawn.
Odo
The cell phone/laptop/pda is not as large as a chair, or in similar colors, or constantly in view/use.
My 10yo daughter says I'm pretty!
Squire to Jarl Asgeirr Gunnarson, Barony of Vatavia, Calontir
ive offered to make them chairs, teach them how to make them, loan them my tools, etc. the ones that care come the lazy just bitch and call me an eletist (yeah hardly!) or tell me im overstepping my bounds and trying to force the fun out of the game. i used to care when they said that people should be allowed to use these things for a while and that it was ok to let them dress poorly and all. i dont care anymore. its wrong plain and simple. when i started there were no coleman chairs and people still managed to have fun. no pop ups. yep fun still happened. so i dont buy the excuses people make and others make for them.
bottom of the page. its stained now and i oil it once a year. its oak and a pair of them cost me $30 to make.
regards
logan
InsaneIrish wrote:
dukelogan wrote:i agree 100% with you alaric. it is all about laziness. just had this discussion (well i talked to a brick wall, it just disagreed) a few days ago with someone suggesting people build chair covers like hers. she also made a cover that slips over her ez up. i suggested doing it right the first time (wooden chairs with a canvas day shade) instead of spending more money (which i also proved) on this modern crap and then more money to hide it poorly. nobody is fooled by a fabric slip over a coleman chair.
but, i actually only banned modern seating from my courts. the changes that are being seen around the field however are a direct result of getting rid of the tshirt, blue jean wearing crowd from the field. it has begun to spread and others are starting to improve their appearance. its very inspiring. we have a long way to go yet and i look forward to watching the improvement continue.
OT but something to think about Duke Logan is an incentive program. Currently ABC ent. (HL Robert Brockman and Myself) offer an incentive program for the purchase of our medievaloid camp chairs. simply bring in your coleman or knockoff tube chair and receive $20 toward the purchase of one of our Gothic inspired colapsable camp chairs. We sell these chairs for $150 a piece and $250 a pair. So, if you bring in 2 tube chairs (limit 2 tube chairs for a pair of gothic chairs, must be currently used tube chairs of course) you can get $40 off the purchase of a set of much more appealing wooden chairs.
We (ABC ent.) are trying to do our part to make the SCA look better.
Anyway, maybe looking into some kind of incentive program might help?
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well i never forced my values on anyone. i did enforce the spirit of the sca, an organization these people joined voluntarily when they tried to force their inappropriate coleman chair on me. im sure though that you do draw a line somewhere. and, i bet its not a bit different than where i draw my line.
regards
logan
Ceddie wrote: It is all about where we draw our own lines and weather or not we force our values on others.
Ebonwoulfe Armory is fully stocked with spears again! For now the only way to order them is to send an email to ebonwoulfearmory@gmail.com with the quantity and your shipping address. We will send a PayPal invoice in response including your shipping cost.
Alcyoneus wrote:The cell phone/laptop/pda is not as large as a chair, or in similar colors, or constantly in view/use.
Really? How about Crown List. Don't you have that fellow who has his video camera set up on a tripod? Right next to the list field? And all those chairs are stuck away under a pavilion. Who is more hidden from view?
This is really not the point of the post though. I guess it is more of a rhetorical question. Where do you draw the line of what is reasonable?
Yours and mine could be completely different, with acceptable arguments on both sides, and neither one of us could give a hoot about the others dislikes.
Odo
(btw, neither coleman chairs nor video or other cameras really bother me)
I'll give you beer for that one.
