[SCA] Basket or Cup?

David S · Post by **David S** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:02 pm

What would you all recommend for a new fighter to use on his first sword or two--a baskethilt or some kind of cuphilt?

Right now, I'm thinking I will get a pair of baskethilts from Ashcraft/Baker, as well as a shield basket, and use those until I get tired of them, unless they have a reputation for being unreliable. I really like the baskethilts that Ironmonger carries, but I can't really spare the cash to get one of those.

However, the Baldar cuphilts, although they cost ~40 bucks (including shipping) seem like a pretty good deal too, especially since I'll be just starting out and might injure myself trying to do boffer fighting moves with a heavier weapon.

What's the consensus?

Ceddie · Post by **Ceddie** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:16 pm

I recommend the Ashcroft/Backer Hilts to ANYONE on a budget. They are strong, solid and dependable but they are a bit heavy. If you are going to go with steel basket and can afford it, IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢d go with
http://www.zenwarriorarmory.com/index.htm
the Thag-5 is not a bad choice/
The Baldar cuphilt isnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t a bad choice. I like to have the weight in my hand, these are super light and cover well.
If you choose the cuphilt, buy from the source at
http://houseasgard.com/BaldarBlunts/

ymmv

Thorstenn · Post by **Thorstenn** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:25 pm

Hi,

I use a Baldar cup hilt and I love it. I have five of them. I have used mild, stainless, and aluminium. I have not found anything that comes close to the Baldar cup hilts. I find that it helps to dampen the vibration from your sword, helps to save your wrist and elbow.

I fight 2 to 3 times a week for the past 3 years. Plus events.

Good luck,

Odo · Post by **Odo** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:47 pm

I have to agree with Ceddie about having the weight of the weapon in my hand. The Baldar cup hilts are lightweight and extremely durable, a great price but not to my liking.

I get my cup hilts from Bokalo's Armoury . He calls the one I like the Duke Gareth Basket hilt. It is aluminum with a stainless tang at $55. He also has a guarantee.

Bokalo's pricelist
http://www.bokalosarmoury.com/

Here is a picture of me with one. http://houseasgard.com/photos/05tmtcl/tmt4Crown_037

Odo

Ian · Post by **Ian** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:49 pm

It's just as much what you like as how much it costs. I for one don't like cup hilts, as I can't see through them, so that's that much more stuff I'm missing. I'm fighting with an Ironmonger heart style basket hilt, which works quite well for me.

olaf haraldson · Post by **olaf haraldson** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:33 pm

Crosshilt?

David S · Post by **David S** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:57 pm

I think eventually I will go gauntlet/crosshilt, especially if/when I am able to make a pair of fingered gauntlets that pass for heavy list (it is doable, right?) For not, I just want to get onto the field, and upgrade my gear as time, funds, and skill permit.

Any further suggestions will be welcome, and thanks for the advice so far!

Blaine de Navarre · Post by **Blaine de Navarre** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:15 am

I think it mostly comes down to weight. Cup hilts are generally lighter than baskets. I tend to use pretty heavy swords, so I need the weaight of a hefty basket to balance it well. If you prefer lighter swords, or if you like a really point-heavy club, then you may prefer a cup.

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:36 pm

ian wrote:It's just as much what you like as how much it costs. I for one don't like cup hilts, as I can't see through them, so that's that much more stuff I'm missing. I'm fighting with an Ironmonger heart style basket hilt, which works quite well for me.

Why would you be looking THROUGH your basket hilt?

DELETEMYACCOUNT · Post by **DELETEMYACCOUNT** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:29 pm

If I used basket hilts I'd probably be looking through them when I was blocking my head with my saber.

Ian · Post by **Ian** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:01 am

InsaneIrish wrote:
ian wrote:It's just as much what you like as how much it costs. I for one don't like cup hilts, as I can't see through them, so that's that much more stuff I'm missing. I'm fighting with an Ironmonger heart style basket hilt, which works quite well for me.

Why would you be looking THROUGH your basket hilt?

I'm small and skittish and like to hide behind things, and it helps if I can hold it in front of me and see the next shot coming. Besides, my scrawny hands leave lots of room to see around.

freiman the minstrel · Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:14 pm

I really like cup hilts. I had one that I dearly loved that was made by Sir Lee Friebrand, but it was lost or stolen when I did a fighting thing at pennsic last year.

I prefer cup hilts for two reasons.

First, Gauntlets are simply wrong (OOP) for my period and personna. I can put a sword down, and be able to give a much more period appearance than I could using a pair of gaunts. Until you get much later (than I play) in the period that the SCA uses, gauntlets simply ruin the appearance of an otherwise good looking rig for me. I can just plain switch from SCA safety compliance to period appearance faster. When you see the camera pointed at you, you don't want to have to say "Please wait a sec, I have to get these gloves off." just drop the sword, and you are camera ready, almost.

Second, I find that cup hilts perform better for me. I can put a trigger much more unobtrusively into a basket, and slip them on and off much faster. I find that using baskets, my hands get bruised much less often. I have only had one fairly major hand injury in the SCA, and that was using gaunts. Finally, the cups are a whole lot lighter, and thus much more closely mimic the balance of my steel swords. I have invested in pretty good quality steel, and I would like my SCA fighting to have some connection to using it.

If you are trying to decide what type of basket/cup hilt to use, I find that you ususally get what you pay for. I have an ashcraft/baker basket right now, and I have had to get it re-welded a couple of times. It did it's job, my hands didn't get hurt, but the spoons (tangs) have broken pretty consistantly. The local Metalbau guy welds them back on pretty much for free for me, as I show up with a six pack, and always forget to take that sixpack with me when I leave. I have never persoanlly found anybody who has shelled out for one of Eisfalcon's ducal grades who was unsatisfied with them.

I like cups much better than baskets, but I don't normally hold the basket directly in front of my face.

freiman

white mountain armoury · Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:13 pm

i prefer my crosshilt, but when i dont use it i prefer a stainless cup hilt

Brennainn · Post by **Brennainn** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:09 am

I recommend using a basket hilt to start. For a first hilt they tend to be a bit more stout. They also can be seen through. They reason that people do this is that you can put it in front of you're face in a shield wall. I know alot of folk who don't like the idea of blocking you're face with a basket, but it is done. I reccomend getting a mild steel basket, eventually the top tang will break due to metal fatigue, and it's easier to get a mild steel basket fixed. Later you can get better looking hilts. I myself prefer cup hilts now, but I am glad that I started with a basket. I still have my first one. I use it for a back up when I get behind in repair for my cup hilts.
Thanks,
Brennainn

Dalewyn · Post by **Dalewyn** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:27 am

When Truehearth and I still shared a shop, I made a few 16 ga Stainless cuphilts that are holding up really well, and I expect to last me forever. I find most basket hilts are a bit heavy, don't like them.

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:38 pm

ian wrote:I'm small and skittish and like to hide behind things, and it helps if I can hold it in front of me and see the next shot coming. Besides, my scrawny hands leave lots of room to see around.

Question: Is this a widely used convention? Since the hands are illegal targets doesn't that seem to "skirt the rules"? I mean are clear shields allowed?

Just curious.

Euric Germanicus · Post by **Euric Germanicus** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:35 am

Baldar!

I used to use basket hilts for two years, three practices a week and it gave me nasty tendonitis in my wrists. The baldar hilts allow me to fight faster and longer. Some people say you need the weight of a metal hilt, and I dont buy that. I've had no problem with people taking my shots anywhere, even at pennsic.

RomeBuff · Post by **RomeBuff** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:11 pm

I can attest to how hard Euric hits!!!

I move faster because I don't want to get hit by him

I also use the Baldar cups. When I returned to fighting...I started again with a steel basket. Quickly I fell in love with the Baldars used by Duke Hanse. I found that I could throw more shots at first until my stamina came back. Now I find that my shots flow more quickly. I also have a lightweight SS 1/2 gauntlet by Clang on my throwing hand. It is gives me more wrist mobility than a hockey glove.

Livia

RomeBuff

Lienhart Fischer · Post by **Lienhart Fischer** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:53 pm

its cause you have little weak arms dale muhahaha
I have a cross hilt but the cuffs on my guantlets are too long and get in the way so im using a basket most of the time

-T

David S · Post by **David S** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:19 pm

I noticed Von Sussen has a bunch of baskethilts for about 25 bucks up on his eBay store, and these have clamps rather than a taping tang. Are these much more durable or otherwise better, and worth the extra cash? Right now, I think I will either get one of these or two Ashcraft-Baker hilts, and I plan to order the hilts (and a stick of Rattan from Icefalcon) in the next week or so, after I've gotten my X-mas shopping done and see how much extra cash I have.

Thanks for all the advice--you've given me a lot to think about in SCA fighting already.