The Armour Archive

Has anybody done any work with gluing covers on to modern shoes.

How well does this work? How bad is it.

My kingdom discourages fighting in period footwear (for safety reasons), but I would really like to change the appearance of my shoes.

Any good suggestions?

f

Freiman,

I plan on going to the Schusster (Shoe Maker) in Schmidmuehlen and have him make me period boots with thin vibram soles for traction and a bit of reinforcement on the toes. I don't know how much he will charge but I plan on checking it out.

Thorald

freiman the minstrel wrote:<snip>
My kingdom discourages fighting in period footwear (for safety reasons),
<snip>
f

It Does?
We Do?

I Fight in slick leather soled turnshoes, regularly go arse over pigface, and no-one has given me grief..
I find the biggest reason for overbalancing is the lack of vision, not the shoes. When I fight in my openfaced BFU bargrill I keep my feet, in the pigface I am prone to overbalancing.

Is this discouragement official?
I am keen to discuss this closely with you and any sources of this opinion at coronation.

Thy Couz,
Robert

PS Love the new Kit!

Robert of Canterbury wrote:

freiman the minstrel wrote:<snip>
My kingdom discourages fighting in period footwear (for safety reasons),
<snip>
f

It Does?
We Do?

It does, we do, and he wont be there. I think that the discouragement is unofficial, and light. I can understand the safety reasons. I want the appearance to be better. If I can do this without compromising, I will.

Are you bringing your kit? It would be really nice to get to cross swords (or actually, use my dane axe against your hundred years war pole axe) this weekend.

I can understand the issues with safety. The Saxon (from the British Isles) shoes shown in this pic look a little short on ankle support, and steel toes are obviously out.



I can fix much of the ankle support issues with a set of ankle wraps, but the toes are a different story. So I am wondering about how good the final appearance of adding some sort of camoflage to modern shoes turns out. I am positive that somebody on this archive has tried it, tried it again, and then made some conclusions.

It would be farly easy to glue a lightish colored leather cover to black boots. I was thinking about those viking bag shoes, which could conceivably have been seen and perhaps used by a Saxon in Mercia.

But I can save some time and money by getting somebody who knows to tell me how it worked out for them.

freiman

I covered a pair of black boots with light colored deerskin cut to look like a early period shoe (bog/bag shoe), and laced with leather thong. At a reasonable distance, the black pretty much "vanishes".

I glued the false covers on with Barge Cement and haven't had ANY problem for 2+ years of constant use indoors and out.

Dilan

I made a pair of fuzzy "spats" to wear with my Japanese kit. They're basically uppers (no sole) with elastic bands to hold them onto my foot. I slip them over the top of the boot, pull the elastic bands over the toe, then smooth out the whole thing. This way I can use whatever boots I want, and/or use my boots for other things. They were a last-minute project (11:30 PM the night before going to Pennsic) and they look a little like fuzzy slippers, but they aren't the worst things, especially with the greaves on (which cover the rest of the boot upper). I could dress them up a bit more (add a cuff, lacing, etc), but no time for that right now. I suppose you could do a very similar thing with some light leather or faux-leather and do a turnshoe-ish type thing.

Pictures at:

http://photos.yahoo.com/todd_last/album?.dir=204a

Talk to D. Sebastion. He made a set of "spats" for his combat boots that are flat out BAD ASS. By far the best job I have seen done so far.

As to the "safety issues" that is total bunk. While I don't fight in period footwear because I have flat feet, MANY in Calontir have been fighting in slick soled turnshoes for years with little to no harm. The trick is to learn to walk in turnshoes. Once you learn HOW to move in turnshoes they work fine.

If you are worried about traction, simply glue a lug sole to the bottom of the turn shoe for traction.

You are right, steel toes are out, but steel toes are not required to begin with.

What are the safety reasons behind discouraging (unofficially or otherwise) period footwear?

Been fighting intermitently in turn shoe like objects for several years and exclusively for the last year. I have had no problems. I do agree with the opinions about learning how to walk again. Nothing like trying to stop short on wet grass to give you a whole new perspective on the world.

I covered a pair of hi-tec boots with leather covers stretched and glued to the boot.

hard to see here....but I dont have a good pic handy.

[img]http://home.cogeco.ca/~sarnac-kir/2005Photos/sarnarmmr.jpg[/img]

freiman the minstrel wrote:Has anybody done any work with gluing covers on to modern shoes.

How well does this work? How bad is it.

My kingdom discourages fighting in period footwear (for safety reasons), but I would really like to change the appearance of my shoes.

Any good suggestions?

f

Freiman,

Who discourages it? I find it incredible that the same Kingdom that encourages handsewn fighting gear would discourage period footwear.

Giles

jester wrote:What are the safety reasons behind discouraging (unofficially or otherwise) period footwear?

I am not entirely sure.

Probably the same safety reasons that cause us encourage steel toes, strong ankle support and good traction. But that's just a guess, it's why I am looking to find a way to incorporate these features into footwear of a period appearance. A broken toe or a twisted ankle not only ruins your fighting, but the rest of your pennsic. It's especially bad when it's a broken (or even just badly bruised) pinky toe, because this adds embarassment to the pain. Shoes are very important if you want to spend a large amount of time in serious competition. You can fight with a cracked short rib, or a broken finger, or even a concussion, but you cannot fight with a badly injured foot.

You would have to ask our earl marshal about this, but that is my guess.

So I am looking for good alternatives. I think that going to a bavarian shoemaker and getting his help is probably the best idea I have heard yet. If we come up with a good compromise, we will post the results here.

freiman

freiman the minstrel wrote:

jester wrote:What are the safety reasons behind discouraging (unofficially or otherwise) period footwear?

I am not entirely sure.

Probably the same safety reasons that cause us encourage steel toes, strong ankle support and good traction. But that's just a guess, it's why I am looking to find a way to incorporate these features into footwear of a period appearance. A broken toe or a twisted ankle not only ruins your fighting, but the rest of your pennsic. It's especially bad when it's a broken (or even just badly bruised) pinky toe, because this adds embarassment to the pain. Shoes are very important if you want to spend a large amount of time in serious competition. You can fight with a cracked short rib, or a broken finger, or even a concussion, but you cannot fight with a badly injured foot.

You would have to ask our earl marshal about this, but that is my guess.

So I am looking for good alternatives. I think that going to a bavarian shoemaker and getting his help is probably the best idea I have heard yet. If we come up with a good compromise, we will post the results here.

freiman

That's interesting. The situation is circular. Wear steel-toed boots because you don't want to get your foot hurt by people wearing steel-toed boots. And traction is, frankly, not period. Which is why (theory alert) folks didn't particularly need ankle support, they slid rather than transfering force to their ankle.

Not a criticism. I just find it amusing.

jester wrote:
That's interesting. The situation is circular. Wear steel-toed boots because you don't want to get your foot hurt by people wearing steel-toed boots. And traction is, frankly, not period. Which is why (theory alert) folks didn't particularly need ankle support, they slid rather than transfering force to their ankle.

Not a criticism. I just find it amusing.

OK, I am really beginning to feel like an ass here. Please guys, I do not need a lecture on why period footwear is good.

I do not wish to discourage anybody from wearing period footwear

But I had my pinky toe badly hurt in a mountain pass battle three years ago, by an exhausted fat guy who took off his helm and carelessly dropped in on the sidelines. I was sitting on a haybale, and it landed on the edge of my foot. I was wearing turnshoes. I camp in the high meadows, and a half a mile walk became torture. It was very difficult to break camp and put my stuff in the storage unit. If I had not had my household around, I would have had to abandon stuff. I had difficulties on the drive home.

I want sturdy toes on my boots. This is not an uneducated desire, but one learned of experience. Some of us may not have had this experience yet, or might never have it. I am happy for them, and wish that this blessing might continue. I want sturdy foot protection. I will not be going on the field again without it.

But I also want a more period appearance. So I am looking for a compromise.

freiman

freiman the minstrel wrote:But I had my pinky toe badly hurt in a mountain pass battle three years ago, by an exhausted fat guy who took off his helm and carelessly dropped in on the sidelines.

SO NOW IT COMES OUT.

YOU have a personal Vendetta against FAT people that Fight and have period footwear!!!!!

Not having to do with the "pinkie toe" but rather I have twice now unintentionally hit my opponent in the ankle while he was on his knees by throwing a shot to his body under his shield and the tip of my sword hit his ankle. It was extremely painful for them and I felt terrible. Good solid boots helped keep it from cracking I believe.

Thorald

InsaneIrish wrote:Talk to D. Sebastion.

Freiman asked me to post a couple of pics -

From Ursus' Gallery -


http://Ursus.smugmug.com/photos/39641163-S.jpg

http://Ursus.smugmug.com/photos/33401918-S.jpg

I'll try to get a better pic...

USUALLY my pants hide the top of the boots more... and YES, 1 boot in the photos is red. One of my house's warrior was stationed in Iraq last year, so the entire household fought with one red boot - her unofficial badge.

D. Sebastian's are cooler.

Dilan

(blush)



Yours look much lower profile in the pic. Get closeups.
Wanna see!!!

D. Sebastian wrote::oops: (blush)



Yours look much lower profile in the pic. Get closeups.
Wanna see!!!

Dude you can not just throw down a pic like that with no explanation. Those kick ass but how did you do them? Are the uber spats glued on? What happens if you break a lace? Did you make em or buy em? ETC...... Details man details...

Mine?

I took some extra deerskin I had, and cut "spats" with the lacing "tabs" over the top of the foot that lined up with the existing lacing holes in a pair of Rocky Boot 911s (Boots for paramedics - light, great support and durable).

I glued them on with Barge Cement, and added a false "seam" where the edges met in the back. The lacing is just leather thong, like in a pair of bog shoes.

Adds almost no weight, and with the barge cement has survived everything I've thrown at them, including a couple of VERY muddy battlefields with only 1 spot I had to re-glue.

I might make a new pair over lower profile black shoes, to look more "shoe like".


My whole rig is probably going to be a little ahistorical - not a lot of real documentation for the period - so I'm working on some "artistic license" to evoke the "spirit of the period". I can hear the accuracy guys howling already.....

I do have a pair of "dark ages" finger gauntlets...


Dilan

Hmm... I was seriously thinking of going for a "Border Reiver" look the next time I make a new Rapier doublet, but the price of real thigh-high riding boots is somewhat discouraging. Some kind of long spats (over my black leather Reebok walking shoes) might work for a "ten-foot rule" version.

tlast wrote:I made a pair of fuzzy "spats" to wear with my Japanese kit. [snip]
Pictures at:
http://photos.yahoo.com/todd_last/album?.dir=204a

I got this:

The File You Are Looking For Is Inaccessible
Please sign in and try again or check with the owner of the file.

Try: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/todd_last ... 4a&.src=ph

I know Duke Logan had some pictures of cleats he covered with leather to look like turn shoes and I think a few guys in Trimaris have done this. I am looking at doing something similar myself before Gulf Wars.

Vebrand

Hew wrote:Hmm... I was seriously thinking of going for a "Border Reiver" look the next time I make a new Rapier doublet, but the price of real thigh-high riding boots is somewhat discouraging. Some kind of long spats (over my black leather Reebok walking shoes) might work for a "ten-foot rule" version.

tlast wrote:I made a pair of fuzzy "spats" to wear with my Japanese kit. [snip]
Pictures at:
http://photos.yahoo.com/todd_last/album?.dir=204a

I got this:

The File You Are Looking For Is Inaccessible
Please sign in and try again or check with the owner of the file.

Try: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/todd_last ... 4a&.src=ph

Gah. Thanks. I must've been previously logged in.

Freiman!

Drachenwald's rules say only (VI.A.7c):
"All individuals will wear sturdy footwear while engaged in combat activities."

But they also say (II.A.3):
"To promote and enhance safety and authenticity on the field, it is recommended that all armor should be made to appear as realistic and as authentic as possible. Blatantly mundane articles should be covered up or disguised in some fashion."

Hmmm. "Blatant". We can argue for a log time if "cleats" are blatantly modern or not. Personally, I prefer them covered. Indeed, I would say that a well covered modern boot would fulfil both requirments admirably, as would a well-made "period" boot.

Wear what suits your toots - just not flimsy, and not barefoot.

Cheers

Aeth
Your freindly neighbourhood Earl Marshal

adric wrote:

D. Sebastian wrote:

Dude you can not just throw down a pic like that with no explanation. Those kick ass but how did you do them? Are the uber spats glued on? What happens if you break a lace? Did you make em or buy em? ETC...... Details man details...

I put a page together for you on these:
http://www.mattyds.com/essays6.php

LMK if you have any other questions about them.

If I break a lace I can relace them as the entire "toung" is exposed when the flap is opened, They are glued on with shoe goo, with a few places sinued just to help anchor them on.

That page might need some edits, I'll get to that soon.

Vebrand wrote:I know Duke Logan had some pictures of cleats he covered with leather to look like turn shoes and I think a few guys in Trimaris have done this. I am looking at doing something similar myself before Gulf Wars.

Vebrand

try these:

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