Tourney heralds and irritating trends...

Mord · Post by **Mord** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:14 am

Fynn,

"Duke Michael of Bedford, can be easily picked out by the horns sticking out of his helm, and tail sticking out of his cape on his surcoat. Also seems to have the odd occurence of always having flames in the background whereever he is. He can also be seen with his little imp, Innogen, who will bite your kneecaps off if he orders it."

You forgot the "His Grace" part. No brownie points for you!

Mord.

Syrfinn · Post by **Syrfinn** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:24 am

Bah, foiled again.

Magnus The Black · Post by **Magnus The Black** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:16 am

From my understanding you are quite correct. Generally when dealing with a his grace, master, master, sir, baron. I generally go by the most fitting title for the situation. When talking to the multi titled person as a knight he would be sir, as a royal peer he would your grace, and as a laurel or pelican he would be master, and as a baron he would be addressed as baron. If some one wrote all their titles on the list card then by all means use them all when they are announced. That said Duke, Sir, Master, Master, Baron Gustov Von Beerchugger would be announced: His Grace Gustov Von Beerchugger, Knight of the Society, Master of the Pelican, Master of the Laurel, and Baron of _____ (the court or x Barony).

Agnarr wrote:
i always heared you werent suppose to stack titles, for example
duke sir master jimmy would just be duke jimmy. is this correct?

Christian1095 · Post by **Christian1095** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:49 am

Your Exellency Hamish,
Yeah, hearlds can be somewhat trying... I actually kind of got tickled by the whole thing... His Highness Aethelmark became "Malcolm" and Duke Logan's squire Shea became "Sir Shea" ... and he never figured out that I was a knight... :lol:

So it was kind of fun to see who was going to get promoted or deomoted next....

In the big picture, if a herald dosen't know I'm a knight by looking at my card... OK, no worries... And if they write it on the card and still muck it up... well, there is a better than even chance the the HIQ (herald in question) is really just a paste-eater posing as a reasonable human... so for me, it's easier to let it slide... Paste eater or not, he did volunteer...

That being said, he should have had a clue about visiting royalty.... I mean, I hates me some heraldry and I recognized thier blazon... In the words of Duke Anton.... "Pitiful..... Just pitiful....."

Regardless, I thought the tourney ran pretty smooth... and I think everybody had a good time.

Sir Christian
~Atlantia~

PS - Your Highness, if I was one of those rude people standing in front of you and Her Majesty... My sincere apologies.... I probably just got over focused on the tourney... :cry:

Maeryk · Post by **Maeryk** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:57 am

From my understanding you are quite correct. Generally when dealing with a his grace, master, master, sir, baron. I generally go by the most fitting title for the situation. When talking to the multi titled person as a knight he would be sir, as a royal peer he would your grace, and as a laurel or pelican he would be master, and as a baron he would be addressed as baron. If some one wrote all their titles on the list card then by all means use them all when they are announced. That said Duke, Sir, Master, Master, Baron Gustov Von Beerchugger would be announced: His Grace Gustov Von Beerchugger, Knight of the Society, Master of the Pelican, Master of the Laurel, and Baron of _____ (the court or x Barony).

Historically, you are correct. THe list of titles available to any King or Queen or Emporer in history is staggeringly long. Pretty much the ONLY time they all got used was coronations, funerals, and weddings. OTherwise, it was whichever title was the most appropriate.

Look at some of hte letters written, and you realize they used the honorific that was appropriate. King of England might become Duke of York or whatever if necessary, depending on what the letter was in reference to.

(ONe of the problems with our system, unfortunately..we misuse historical titles and it can be very hard to mesh the two systems properly)

Real world example: Queen Elizabeth

She has several. In the United Kingdom her official title is: "Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith."

In Canada, where the Queen is the Head of State, her official title is "Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith."

In common practice Queen Elizabeth II is referred to simply as "The Queen", to differentiate her from her mother, who is called "Queen Elizabeth".

Maeryk

DWolfhunter · Post by **DWolfhunter** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:51 pm

Christian1095 wrote:Your Exellency Hamish,
... I actually kind of got tickled by the whole thing... His Highness Aethelmark became "Malcolm" and Duke Logan's squire Shea became "Sir Shea" ... and he never figured out that I was a knight... So it was kind of fun to see who was going to get promoted or deomoted next....

In the big picture, if a herald dosen't know I'm a knight by looking at my card... OK, no worries... And if they write it on the card and still muck it up... well, there is a better than even chance the the HIQ (herald in question) is really just a paste-eater posing as a reasonable human... so for me, it's easier to let it slide... Paste eater or not, he did volunteer...

That being said, he should have had a clue about visiting royalty.... I mean, I hates me some heraldry and I recognized thier blazon... In the words of Duke Anton.... "Pitiful..... Just pitiful....."

Regardless, I thought the tourney ran pretty smooth... and I think everybody had a good time.

Sir Christian

I completely agree regarding the speed and smoothness of the tournament. The day went very quickly...or it seemed to anyway. However, you and I both know that all volunteers are not equal. Calling him or anyone else a paste-eater is a bit much. I wans't trying to insult the poor guy, I just want him to work a little harder to "get-it-right", ya know? What is being discussed here is a publication of sorts to aid in "field recognition" of the combattants of rank in ATlantia...sort of a condensed version of the knights list and reference to whatever other Peers and titled gentles that fight within the Kingdom. One which could be handed off to MOLs and Field Heralds to ready them selves for calling the field.

Just one more step to getting the pageantry part of our game to match the quality of play.

Hamish, baron (court)

Jehan de Pelham · Post by **Jehan de Pelham** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:32 pm

Something like a book, with a shield, and a name next to it, your excellency?

It is my position that men at arms should be heralds. Preferably squires. In this way, they learn the names of men at arms, see their deeds, and learn how to speak well before assemblies. Plus, everyone gets to see whether they're eating paste or not.

John
Jehan de Pelham, esquire and servant of Sir Vitus
www.mron.org

Baron Alejandro · Post by **Baron Alejandro** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:37 pm

We need to ask a cooking Laurel for a period recipe for edible paste. :lol:

DWolfhunter · Post by **DWolfhunter** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:38 pm

Yes Jehan, almost exactly that.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:24 pm

Baron Alejandro wrote::lol: We need to ask a cooking Laurel for a period recipe for edible paste.

I'm no cooking Laurel, but I can certainly tell you that we did not serve paste at Atlantian Coronation this past weekend.

:wink:

Rev. George · Post by **Rev. George** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:55 pm

i always heared you werent suppose to stack titles, for example
duke sir master jimmy would just be duke jimmy. is this correct?

As others have pointed out, correct.

Generally, at a tournament, one would be announced by the most grandeloquent title they possessed (Jimmy above would get "Duke", or more likely, "His excellency James, third duke of Glastonbury") The balance would be omitted.

Now, we have a problem in that we have no locative duchies. (All other titles can be appropriately styled- Baron of the court of meridies, Companion of the Laurel, Baron of YOURBARONY HERE, etc)

-+G

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:06 pm

I usually called Dukes "Grace" rather than "excellency"... was that just a brain fart or do they do things differently in your neck of the woods?

St. George · Post by **St. George** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:12 am

When I was living out in Caid, it was traditional to only call out a person's titles earned from fighting. Don't ask me what that means, other than they rarely announced Barons as such, or Lords, etc. It always bothered me.

Alaric, Duke Sartiano

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:32 am

I've had the problem of being handed cards while heralding that only had the first name of the fighter. I dunno everyone's rank and titles, i know most of em but not all. It was irritating to have to guess,

For me as long as i hear my name in time to get my helmet on, i'm cool.

And if all else fails look at their belt or helmet .

Besides should'nt someones franchise be recognizeable by their bearing with or without their titles being read out?

Rev. George · Post by **Rev. George** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:12 am

was that just a brain fart
Yes. Yes it was.

He would be "His Grace James Conroy, third duke of Glastonbury"

A thought- It might be cool if you knew where a man got his ducal/county rank and the # that he was.

You know like "His grace, Orlando Cavalcatti, the second duke of meridies."

-+G

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:47 am

Cool.

I was just curios, interkingdom anthropology being interesting to me.

I like it when people model their names and titles. My knight for example is

Earl Duncan Arthur Ross "The Black"

But will somtimes sign himself

Duncan "The Black", Earl of Ross

I dig that.