The Armour Archive

I have fought in maille for going on two years now. I currently have a suit of butted aluminum welding rods. It has hled up great, and I have not lost more than 4-5 rings from it. I did not wear anything under it but a kidney belt, and have not had anything worse than a few waffle shaped bruises.

I switched to maille from an aluminum set of lamellar, and the maille is by far much better IMO. The freedom of movement is incredible. You feel every breeze though the rings too, which is wonderful here in the South.

After being committed to wearing maille, I ordered a flatring, stainless hauberk from Knuut. It was mailed to me this week so once I get it I will post a review of it.

I have found my fighting picked up a bit since wearing maille Lucian. One I move better. Two, I want to get hit less in it.

Uric

Also, anyone have Master Knuts website info? A search yielded little to nothing and the link I had is dead.

Blackoak,

what is the stats on your aluminum rings? (ring diamenter, wire size and weave)


I am giving consideration to helping my friend get into a mail harness and depending on your answer you might have just sealed the deal for me.




Sieg

It did not come in a specified guage, as it is aluminum welding rods, not wire. It is similar probably to 16 guage. It is done in the usual 4-in-1 pattern. Sitting at work, I want to say the inside diameter is like 3/8". I will measure it tonight and get it to you tomorrow.

It took me less than 2 boxes to make the full hauberk (5'7"), and I had about 1/3 of a box unused. It ran like 30 bucks a box. The bitch of making it is you only get about a 3 inch coil out of each rod.

This is the same stuff that Sir Seth of Meridies & Ryan Mulligan of Gleann Abhann have fought in for years with little maintenance. Great stuff.

I bought the hauberk from Knuut because I wanted ZERO maintenace maille, and the aluminum gives off the black oxidation over time.

Uric

Lucian Ro wrote:Also, anyone have Master Knuts website info? A search yielded little to nothing and the link I had is dead.

http://www.weldedchainmail.com/

Von Sussen doesn't have any butted hauberks listed on his site. are they usually on ebay, instead?

Also do folks have a recommendation for where to get a good gambeson? I can't sew so makinig one is not going to work for me.

Thanks,

audax

Blackoak wrote:It did not come in a specified guage, as it is aluminum welding rods, not wire. It is similar probably to 16 guage. It is done in the usual 4-in-1 pattern. Sitting at work, I want to say the inside diameter is like 3/8". I will measure it tonight and get it to you tomorrow.

It took me less than 2 boxes to make the full hauberk (5'7"), and I had about 1/3 of a box unused. It ran like 30 bucks a box. The bitch of making it is you only get about a 3 inch coil out of each rod.

This is the same stuff that Sir Seth of Meridies & Ryan Mulligan of Gleann Abhann have fought in for years with little maintenance. Great stuff.

I bought the hauberk from Knuut because I wanted ZERO maintenace maille, and the aluminum gives off the black oxidation over time.

Uric

Sweet,

Thanks for the info.

I can relate to making mail project with the welding rods. takes forever to get enough coils. I think I migh thave to start buying it in the spools.




Sieg

Several questions to answer:

I wear chain and I won Crown in it. Butted alum. welding rod, same as mentioned earlier by Uric Blackoak. I have been wearing if for six or seven years now.


The female in chain at GA Coronation was indeed my Squire Lady Rebekka Black. She just switched to welded stainless from butted. She wears a modified street hockey under her chain. I should add the Ld Rian Mullagan, who won the tourney mentioned was also wearing stainless welded.



Seth

audax wrote:Von Sussen doesn't have any butted hauberks listed on his site. are they usually on ebay, instead?

Also do folks have a recommendation for where to get a good gambeson? I can't sew so makinig one is not going to work for me.

Thanks,

audax

Try here.

http://stores.ebay.com/Von-Sussen-Enterprises

That is his e-bay store. There should be a navigation collumn on the left, click on chain mail, and work your way down to about a hundred bucks. Butted mail is kind of the default, that is to say that they will tell you if its riveted or welded, but if it says nothing, its butted.

freiman

Ok Sieg, the inside diameter is 3/8". Have fun.

Uric

So if the Historic Enterprises riveted mail haubergeon has a inner ring diameter of 9mm, is 18ga flattened wire, and weighs 16lbs it should meet SCA standards for maille correct?

Blackoak,

thanks that help alot. Not to go and get me some wire and make my kingdom more pleasing to the eye.

B. Fulton,

there is no "standard" for mail in the SCA, it is all you and what you want to do with it.





Sieg

I fight in flat ring riveted from Kings Lance. I am very happy with it. I wear it usually with lamellar, occasionally without. Stings a bit with just a gambeson under it, pretty tank with the lamellar over it.

freiman the minstrel wrote:

audax wrote:Von Sussen doesn't have any butted hauberks listed on his site. are they usually on ebay, instead?

Also do folks have a recommendation for where to get a good gambeson? I can't sew so makinig one is not going to work for me.

Thanks,

audax

Try here.

http://stores.ebay.com/Von-Sussen-Enterprises

That is his e-bay store. There should be a navigation collumn on the left, click on chain mail, and work your way down to about a hundred bucks. Butted mail is kind of the default, that is to say that they will tell you if its riveted or welded, but if it says nothing, its butted.

freiman

Thaks a bunch, Frieman. I'm ready to be part of the chain gang!

Seth_of_Newcastle wrote:Several questions to answer:

The female in chain at GA Coronation was indeed my Squire Lady Rebekka Black. She just switched to welded stainless from butted. She wears a modified street hockey under her chain. I should add the Ld Rian Mullagan, who won the tourney mentioned was also wearing stainless welded.

Seth

See! That's why I get confused! Too many names. I'm old now and my brain don't work so good.

I fought some warm-ups/pick-ups with her. She does Your Excellency credit.

Rian did ok, I guess....

Marvin,
Fights in chain, just not quite as well as Rian did Saturday...

Seth_of_Newcastle wrote:Several questions to answer:

I wear chain and I won Crown in it. Butted alum. welding rod, same as mentioned earlier by Uric Blackoak. I have been wearing if for six or seven years now.


The female in chain at GA Coronation was indeed my Squire Lady Rebekka Black. She just switched to welded stainless from butted. She wears a modified street hockey under her chain. I should add the Ld Rian Mullagan, who won the tourney mentioned was also wearing stainless welded.



Seth

She wears a modified street hockey what under her chain? I'm very interested in what other female fighters wear under mail. Especially to protect their hips and thighs.

Regards,

audax

Audax,

There is NOTHING (well almost nothing) more satisfying than wearing chain onto the field. You will be wearing what our forebeares did for centuries and what the chivalry had for centuries as well. It just feels right. So yes welcome to the chain gang!!

Come across the pond and Freiman and I would be happy to host and fight!!

Thorald

Do us a favor, please. Could you post pics, first when you first try the maile, and later, when you have the look you want with it?

That would be cool. Before and after mail.

And Thorvaldr and I would love to host you here in Germany. Be a part of our "visiting fighter program". Come visit. Sample Bavarian Beer. Take the train to Prague, Munich, Berlin, Vienna. Take an ITR tour (bus tour) to Paris, Rome, Venice and such. Visit us and use an Ami style shower, rest for a day, launder your clothes, Mail home your souveniers, and hit the road again.

And fight every three days.

freiman

Hmmmm now that sounds like a vacation to me.

Audax, search for Crashpads on the net. Basically high grade biking shorts with good padding sewn in. I wear it under mine and takes a good bit of impact. Still stings a touch but lessens the bruises.

Uric

Freiman and Thorald,

I am so honored by the invitation, I've got goosebumps. I'll start thinking about when I can come over and saving my pennies. That would be a righteous vacation.

I'll definitely post pics of my harness as soon as I get my helm and mail shirt. And surcote and all that good stuff. I'm really excited to wear mail, because is it is real armor that our ancestors wore.

Life is really good.

audax

Blackoak wrote:Audax, search for Crashpads on the net. Basically high grade biking shorts with good padding sewn in. I wear it under mine and takes a good bit of impact. Still stings a touch but lessens the bruises.

Uric

I think that's definitely the way I'll go. Just have to pick which style won't make my arse look huge. "She fights really well and her harness looks great but her butt is so big she needs a pavise!"

Audax if you make it over here, look us up in northern Italy. Not many to fight (very small household) but lots of castles around here.

Funny you say that Audax. When I fought in lamellar I used a pair of baseball sliding shorts I had put thicker padding in. When I first switch to maille, the form hugging look made those pads make my ass look big. I had a rough decision: vanity over protection. Hmmm, being a pretty boy, I got rid of the pads. I fought with nothing on my legs for about a year until I saw the crash pads. They are pretty low profile, and I don't mind wearing them. Luckily I don't get hit a whole bunch.

Of course all the guys still tease me about my butt being big.

Audax, I use the 1300 style crash pads. Also, the 6500 style looks like it might work for chest protection for you.

Uric

Blackoak wrote:Audax, I use the 1300 style crash pads. Also, the 6500 style looks like it might work for chest protection for you.

Uric

Yeah, man, I think those will work great. Thanks so much for the input.

I waer a mail byrnie with what amounts to a lamellar plackart over it which gives squishy bit and sternum coverage. The mail is round wire Indian riveted stuff with the galvie stripped off and the lamellar is made from WMA twenty gauge stainless plates. The range of motion I have is incredible- If my body can do it out of armor, I can do it in armor. The protection is decent except in the collar bone and shoulder point regions where it is minimal. I havn`t been whuffed by an armpit shot in years and because I`m a very mobile fighter, the mail around the hips area is frequently in motion away from the body when shots come in there making them feel very light when and if the connect to my hips or butt. its even saved me from a few cup shots that would have sucked otherwise!
One thing that i have found that both dresses up the look, helps the fit around the neck, and helps it wear better when fighting is I edged the neck, arms, and hem in elkhide, as well as all the edges on my lamellar.
BTW, in addition to myself there are at least four other fighters in my unit who wear mail, and at least two more in addition to them who wear it in my barony (Stonemarche, located in the Northern Region of the East Kingdom, MKA New Hampshire USA)
Drefan Ravenson

Would padded armor OVER the mail (like you see in a couple shots in KOH) as well as under help?

I have been fighting in mail for some time now. At first I wore a padded gambeson under it with some heavy leather in pockets over my ribs.

Some time ago I got a REALLY good shot in the gut and after spending a couple weeks walking around feeling like I just got punched in the stomach I decided to up the protection a bit.

I am currently wearing my old plastic body armor under my gambeson and mail. It protects REAL well (duh, I wore the plastic by itself for long enough...). I am currently planning on making some kind of leather breastplate to wear under it instead of the plastic (the plastic plates create a wierd profile under the mail).

I love mail... but I dont think that it provides enough protection for what we do without something else to back it up.

(these pics were taken at An Tir's 40 Year celebration - I am the guy in mail with the round shield)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sirgernon/ ... 142672489/

Well I just started fighting in mail this past week.
Most of the fighting at Atlantia's Spahire joust.
Several things I noticed so far.
1. It hurts about the same when I get hit so blow recognition did not seem to be a problem.
2. It did not hurt more then when I was hit in the same spots while wearing a CoP, which is great.
3. My shoulders are sore, but my lower back is not. I wore a placard with my mail which evened the weight distribution. I was also given some good advice about how to close the neck up and take some more weight off of the shoulders a bit.
4. Wow. I can move in that thing. A lot better then my CoP.
5. If your legs are pointed to anyting, make sure your points are tucked in and not going to catch on your maille.

That is about all I can deconstruct about my maille from this weekend so far.
Ursus may be kind enough to post a pic of my rig some time this week.

Here is a pic of me in the aluminum, butted welding rods. I should have a pic with my welded, stainless hauberk (Master Knuut's) after this weekend.

Uric

If you don't wear anything over the mail, like lamellar, sinch it up at the waist with a belt. Tthis will take some of the weight off of the shoulders and keep it from swinging excessively if the shirt extends past the waist. My shirt goes to just below the hips and it is amazing how much inertia can be generated by that small amount of mass swinging freely.