What's up with the King of Meridies?

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:34 pm

"Yes, the correct answer is "Yes, Your Majesty."

To a point.

There is a point that "Yes your majesty Godwin" becomes "Mike, your being a jerk man. You need to chill out."

We should count on our friend for that kinda frankness.

freiman the minstrel · Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:34 pm

{edited}

It is important to remember that we cannot change other folk's views, only give them reasons to change their own.

f

Adriano · Post by **Adriano** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:42 pm

I'm tempted to quote Private Carr in Ulysses: "I'll wring the neck of any fucker says a word against my fucking king!"

In fact, though, I don't swear fealty, certainly have no regard for the idea of royalty in the real world, and. . . well, I've heard some things. Fortunately, as noted, Meridian reigns last only six months.

I can't really defend Godwine's position on this, but it's not worth name-calling. Everybody has personal flaws; being royalty in our made-up kingdom puts a person in a bright light that emphasizes the flaws. There have been fifty reigns in Meridies while I've been in the SCA; some of the kings I like and respect a whole lot, others not so much. Keeps things interesting.

Winterfell · Post by **Winterfell** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:24 pm

Perhaps HRM is thinking of Mensur Duelling? Which specifically uses schlagers.
http://www.jonathan-green.com/images/Dueling/
I have learned awhile ago that some people may consider a particular person an a$$hat, but it is better for me to form my own opinions of a person when I deal with them directly.

co10Broek · Post by **co10Broek** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:28 pm

There have been fifty reigns in Meridies while I've been in the SCA; some of the kings I like and respect a whole lot, others not so much. Keeps things interesting.

Adriano, I can only hope to be able to have this sentiment.

Frieman, Thank you I will attempt to moderate my speech.

Jean-Michel

jester · Post by **jester** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:39 pm

I respect the position His Majesty has taken. He has expressed his opinion and exercised His authority right up to the line where He would be adversely affecting the way people play the game. He has clearly stated His personal beliefs on this matter and has *not* let His personal beliefs become an official statement on how the game must be played.

Is His decision a good one? History will decide. I will hasten to add that Corpora enshrines the right of the Crowns to rule, even to rule poorly. If some folks over-react well... I think that some folks will always over-react.

William of Otterton · Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:16 pm

From the Governing Documents of the SCA, Inc. (PDF) - April 2001, revised April 2006:

Found at: http://www.sca.org/docs/govdocs.pdf

Section IV: Royalty
C: Duties

3. Royalty shall be the chief examples of chivalry, courtesy, and the other virtues appropriate to the ideals of the Society, and shall inspire these virtues in their subjects. They shall be true and faithful rulers for their subjects, uphold their subjectsÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ rights and work for their benefit, and maintain an impartial justice for all in the realm.

Kind of hard to be a fencer and aspire to the ideals of chivalry and courtesy when you know there's not going to be any Royal acknowledgement of your efforts for a time...

Ah well, life goes on.

GdS

Mateo · Post by **Mateo** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:40 pm

It is my opinion that most folks, regardless of what type of oblong object they choose to swing about, love their kingdom very much. And the reward for that love often comes best in the form of the honor of fighting for the crown, in their name, as they watch and/or participate.

I find His Majesties choices to be against the ideals of chivalry. In fact, I tend to find anyone who scoffs at activities others are passionate about in this game to be lacking in some essential chivalric ideas. How can one lay claim to chivalry when one ruefully casts a downward glance at others? And some of you might gasp at these words, and whisper about me questioning someone's chivalry. To which I will counter that chivalry is a journey, in my opinion, and learning to be more chivalric in our words and deeds sometimes requires a challenege to what we believe to be acceptable.

I come from a different culture, though. Here in Northshield, the idea of One Kingdom, One Army is a powerful one. Many of our fighters cross over to both fields, and we are the stronger for it. Our Queens and Kings have either fought beside us, or have been there when we fight. We've got Dons in shield walls and Knights commanding flanking crews on the rapier field. And it's *wonderful*.

We all learn from each other culturally, and we have finally begun to come to a place of mutual respect and admiration for what we do in this game. And Northshield is the stronger for it.

It wasn't always like this. It's taken years of work on both sides of the field to make it happen. But it has been more than worth the effort.

The tragedy is that had His Majesty decided to embrace his rapier community, he might have had a chance to be remembered as a great king. Now, he will only be remembered by his rapier fighters, and probably lots of others, as something significantly less than great.

They will remember you by the songs they pen about you as you are their sovereign.

It's not hard to ruin someone's game in the SCA. The Dream is a fragile thing, easily shattered by a lack of forethought or by ignorant words and deeds. Acts like this, while technically within the rights of the Crown, can do lasting damage to an entire community of people. And the trouble is, the crown can step down, never look another rapier fighter in the face again, and still walk away with his Dutchy, or whatever he is inline to recieve.

But the damage can echo for a long time after that. The rapier fighters in question might be less willing to be inclusive in the future to heavy fighters who want to cross over. They might by made more bitter with the knowledge that at any time, the sovereign can essentially tell them they are without value to the kingdom for the next six months.

When the time comes for the culture of a kingdom to progress to one of mutual respect, such memories become stumbling blocks to that process. They breed people who are cynical about the game in general. And sometimes, if these issues are deep enough, such a cultural progression can never be made.

Anyway, I have rambled enough. Suffice to say that were I a meridian fencer, I would be penning songs *at this moment* so that this reign would never be forgotten.

In Service,

Don Mateo Montero de Madrid
Kingdom of Northshield
That Tall Blonde Bard Guy who Played the Bar at Gulf Wars.

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:01 am

Effingham wrote:All that should be irrelevant.

The whopping great tool doesn't OWN the SCA, or even Meridies.

Yes, the correct answer is "Yes, Your Majesty." That doesn't, however, preclude one from concluding that the king is an ass, and six months can't end quickly enough.

Effingham

Milord:

Do you have torches and pitchforks at the ready ?

Do you think it wise to make such outrageous remarks ?

Do you think someone else might get *their* torches and pitchforks ready, when perhaps they learned that you called their King a "whopping great tool" ?

Disagreements are inevitable among human beings and in human activities. How we express our disagreements says a great deal about us.

There are no SCA Royals who do not antagonize some portion of the population around them, and there is no shortage of people ready to run off to report, with embellishment, on whatever the Royals might have done that might be taken badly by someone somewhere.

There simply isn't any level of disagreement with the Royalty that justifies such juvenile name calling, especially not in such a far reaching public forum as this one.

Consider for a moment, milord, what your words here have done to *your* reputation.

Gavin

Josh W · Post by **Josh W** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:07 am

Effingham's reputation is probably safer and farther-reaching than Godwine's. I meet people in completely different hobbies who've heard of him, but I hadn't even heard anything, good or ill, about Godwine until last night, and I doubt he has the sort of "cross-genre" appeal that Effingham does.

Consider: a few months from now, very few people outside of Meridies will remember Godwine, but people in the SCA, Dagorhir, Amtgard, NERO, anime fandom, and certain military history circles will still quote Effingham's website and books like Gospel.

Effingham · Post by **Effingham** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:37 am

Thanks, Josh. Your answer was much more polite and politic (to say nothing of nice!) than the one I was thinking of penning.

Effingham

Alexander · Post by **Alexander** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:24 am

Kilkenny wrote:There are no SCA Royals who do not antagonize some portion of the population around them, and there is no shortage of people ready to run off to report, with embellishment, on whatever the Royals might have done that might be taken badly by someone somewhere.

Other feelings of the post aside, this is one of the great truisms of the SCA and cannot be emphasized enough. As someone who lives in a kindom that is made of multple countries, I have seen instances where the Royals were despised and deemed questionable or untrustworthy merely because they were from "somewhere else".

I think I've figured out what "The Dream" is - it's the fallacy that you, as King, can make everyone happy during your reign...

syveken · Post by **syveken** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:38 am

MalcolmdeMoffat wrote:To me this says, No event that the royalty is at will have fencing. This is not to say that the sub groups can't have fensing,

I don't know that much about the fencing populace in Meridies, but here in Drachenwald it would throw the fencers back for a long time. The more fencers leave and the less events we have, the less we can encourage others to fence. mho.

Aonghus · Post by **Aonghus** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:30 am

I just can't believe it really matters what HRM thinks about fencing. I don't do ANY of this stuff because I expect a pretty piece of paper out of it. I fight heavy because it's fun. I brew because, by God, I love to drink

I buy stuff from merchants because I like their stuff. I do ALL of this because I enjoy history, enjoy being around my friends, and enjoy having fun at this hobby.

I don't fence right now, not because some king "don't like it" or even because my knight doesn't like it, but because I don't have the time of money to try it out now. When I do, I will. It makes not one whit of difference to me what any "shiny hat" thinks about it, unless he decides to try to ban it outright, which HRM Godwine is NOT doing. In 6 months there will be another king who may not like thrown weapons...archery...or, God forbid, brewing and you know what, I'll still throw stuff, shoot stuff, and drink stuff (whether I brewed it or not

To quote my old drill sergeant, "If you don't mind, he [HRM] don't matter."

jester · Post by **jester** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:18 am

Griffin de Stockport wrote: Kind of hard to be a fencer and aspire to the ideals of chivalry and courtesy when you know there's not going to be any Royal acknowledgement of your efforts for a time...

GdS

I wasn't aware that acknowledgement of effort was a prerequisite for aspiring to the ideals of chivalry and courtesy.

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:21 am

Josh Warren wrote:Effingham's reputation is probably safer and farther-reaching than Godwine's. I meet people in completely different hobbies who've heard of him, but I hadn't even heard anything, good or ill, about Godwine until last night, and I doubt he has the sort of "cross-genre" appeal that Effingham does.

Consider: a few months from now, very few people outside of Meridies will remember Godwine, but people in the SCA, Dagorhir, Amtgard, NERO, anime fandom, and certain military history circles will still quote Effingham's website and books like Gospel.

Just because Effingham is more popular or "famous" than Godwine does not excuse the coarse language. Godwine is still King no matter what kind of King he is. His subjects have 2 options: They can take his views in stride and continue on, or take a 6 month vacation from the SCA. Throwing insults at people over the internet is only going to make things worse.

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:23 am

Griffin de Stockport wrote: Kind of hard to be a fencer and aspire to the ideals of chivalry and courtesy when you know there's not going to be any Royal acknowledgement of your efforts for a time...

Ah well, life goes on.

GdS

If a royal pat on the head is what you are looking for by being chivalrous and courtious then you are following the wrong path.

Not saying that IS what you are doing, but the above statement (as I read it) came off rather petty and shallow.

Mateo · Post by **Mateo** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:58 am

In my opinion, the measure of a king can be made by the echos they leave behind them on the throne. Most rapier fighters love their kingdom as surely as anyone else, and want to fight in it's name in the way that they know best. Where is the wisdom, or the honor, in denying your population that enjoyment? Why cast them aside?

It just doesn't make any sense.

A little over a year ago, I was one of the first three guys His Majesty Siegfried made a White Scarf. It was a pretty daunting moment, so I was seeking advice from other leaders in the Heavy Community. Basically, Knights. And I was haveing a conversation with Sir Kaydien (sp?) regarding heavy fighting. The chat meandered to fighting in Crown, and becoming King. I told him I much prefered to serve the crown, not wear it. He countered with "The crown is the ultimate servant of the populace".

And he was right. Our Crowns must serve the populace, not their own interests or lack their of. His majesty had a choice - he could do what he did, or he could try to put himself into that community to perhaps gain an understanding or appreciation for it. Who knows, he may even learn to *like* it. He chose instead to do something that likely made many of them feel useless to their own kingdom.

I've fought against and alongside Meridies at gulf wars many times. One of my dearest friends, and greatest inspirations as a rapier fighter lives in the bounderies of that Kingdom. I know Jean Michele, and many others. And when I saw this missive from their king, I was saddened for them.

Jester, and others - the point the gentleman was making regarding "reward" is a good one, and I believe you are turning it about without actually answering the meat of what he is getting at. It's not really about a reward or a pat on the head. It's about inspiration and example. At least, that's how I read it.

jester · Post by **jester** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:22 am

Mateo wrote:Jester, and others - the point the gentleman was making regarding "reward" is a good one, and I believe you are turning it about without actually answering the meat of what he is getting at. It's not really about a reward or a pat on the head. It's about inspiration and example. At least, that's how I read it.

Sorry, I don't see it. There is no Royal Master of Dance that I am aware of, yet still we dance for love of the activity. The King has made it clear He has no particular fondness for fencing and will not favor the activity with His patronage. This makes people sad. I can understand that. But until He actively impedes the practice of fencing, I have a hard time mustering any outrage.

If two kings have a Royal Brewer are all following kings constrained to have a Royal Brewer?

Mateo · Post by **Mateo** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:42 am

jester wrote: Sorry, I don't see it. There is no Royal Master of Dance that I am aware of, yet still we dance for love of the activity.

Ah yes, but ask the dancers - wouldn't it be grand if the king and/or queen were to attend a dance? Wouldn't that be a sign that you are valued by the kingdom, through it's crown?

Now, if the king said "Dance is lame, we don't like it, don't expect us to darken your doorstep", don't you think that would cause harm? And such a choice would be made for what? To satisfy some personal dislike while in a position of authority?

Saying I don't want to see pop cans during my reign is one thing. Saying that I don't care to deal with an entire community of my populace, in my opinion, is quite another.

The King has made it clear He has no particular fondness for fencing and will not favor the activity with His patronage. This makes people sad. I can understand that. But until He actively impedes the practice of fencing, I have a hard time mustering any outrage.

Fair enough, on the outrage angle. However, we can agree that when people fight in the SCA, inspiration is essential. And there is little greater inspiration for an army than to have your crown watching or participating. It brings people together, gives them common purpose that goes beyond the relationship between the business end of their sword and the other person accross the field from them.

If two kings have a Royal Brewer are all following kings constrained to have a Royal Brewer?

Of course not, nor would I argue that. Our first reign had no rapier champion, for reasons belonging to their Majesties at the time. But they did not totally abandon us. In fact, they were powerfully strong supporters of our efforts. And such efforts were pushed to greater success, in their name, as a result.

I also have to say, that like it or not, rapier combat is indeed combat. Comparing it to brewery is not very accurate. Compare it to heavy, and you're closer to the mark, in my opinion. Unless of course, the brewers are locked in a life or death drinking contest.

Then they beat us all for facing danger.

Bran MacNiell · Post by **Bran MacNiell** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:52 am

Griffin de Stockport wrote:
Kind of hard to be a fencer and aspire to the ideals of chivalry and courtesy when you know there's not going to be any Royal acknowledgement of your efforts for a time...

Milord, you have managed to hit one of my few truely HOT buttons. We do a lot of things in the SCA because we enjoy them, and we do some simply because we see that they need to be done, but wether or not you recieve royal notice for doing them should have no effect on why and how you do them.
We all like praise, we all like to be noticed[to varrying degrees admitedly] but if wether or not you are doing those thing you choose to do is affected by being seen doing them, then I would ask that you think on why you do them.
I don't know you personally. I am sure you a good person and enthused about the things you active in. I don't mean this as a personal attack, but bluntly spoken...It may make it harder to be enthused about an activity without the praise, but it should never make it harder to to behave without chivalry and curtesy.

Jasper · Post by **Jasper** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:53 am

Ok what do you think if the King would point to a goober and say you are my ________ Champion.

Broadway · Post by **Broadway** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:10 am

Ok what do you think if the King would point to a goober and say you are my ________ Champion.

We are all goobers, nerds, etc... so it happens every reign, in every kingdom.

temazur · Post by **temazur** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:32 am

Do what you love, patronize the events that have what you love doing.

Don't think of it as a reign where you can't compete to become the Rapier Champion. Think of it as an extra six months without the spotlight on fencing to become even better.

If your love of this specific game is lessened by the fact that there will be no "Royal Attention" paid to your game or yourself, then maybe you're doing it for the wrong reasons.

You don't have to have the royals present to have an event. If it bothers you enough, organize as many fencing events as you can during his reign in Meridies.

Though it would never happen, if a King said "I hate heavy fighting, and won't deal with it during my reign", I'd still not put down my stick.

Hildegard

Ratslayer · Post by **Ratslayer** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:34 am

Griffin de Stockport wrote:From the Governing Documents of the SCA, Inc. (PDF) - April 2001, revised April 2006:

Found at: http://www.sca.org/docs/govdocs.pdf

Section IV: Royalty
C: Duties

3. Royalty shall be the chief examples of chivalry, courtesy, and the other virtues appropriate to the ideals of the Society, and shall inspire these virtues in their subjects. They shall be true and faithful rulers for their subjects, uphold their subjectsÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ rights and work for their benefit, and maintain an impartial justice for all in the realm.
Kind of hard to be a fencer and aspire to the ideals of chivalry and courtesy when you know there's not going to be any Royal acknowledgement of your efforts for a time...

Ah well, life goes on.

GdS

If you're only aspiring to ideals of chivalry and courtesy to receive Royal acknowledgement then you're going about it the wrong way anyways.

Kelwin

jester · Post by **jester** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:35 am

Mateo wrote: Of course not, nor would I argue that. Our first reign had no rapier champion, for reasons belonging to their Majesties at the time. But they did not totally abandon us. In fact, they were powerfully strong supporters of our efforts. And such efforts were pushed to greater success, in their name, as a result.

Characterizing this Crown's stated intentions as 'total abandonment' goes a little far, I think. He doesn't like fencing but He has not banned it (as He could), has not requested that it not take place at events at which the Crown will be in attendance, has not placed any significant restrictions (or any restrictions that I, at my far remove, am aware of) upon it, and has publicly promised to continue evaluating some of the avant-garde developments that portions of the fencing community are pushing for.

Agilmar · Post by **Agilmar** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:45 am

Ratslayer wrote:...

If you're only aspiring to ideals of chivalry and courtesy to receive Royal acknowledgement then you're going about it the wrong way anyways.

Not *only*. But if the supposed very epitome of C&C tells you -- as a group, not as an individual -- "You suck, and you do so in a boring manner", and if his statements come across as modestly unpolite, you might tend to reconsider what you're doing.

Because it shows that you and HRM have differing notions on the idea of chivalry.

Cheers,

Agilmar

justus · Post by **justus** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:45 am

We are all goobers, nerds, etc... so it happens every reign, in every kingdom.

No kidding, look who our last king choose as champion!

It seems like there is a wide (maybe perceived) gulf between what the King wrote in his letter and his actions in person.

From the letter I have no problem what-so-ever. He states clearly that while he does not like fencing, thinks it's a bit dangerous, and will not be sponsoring or patronizing the fencing arts. Clear enough, and better than if he simply acted as if fencing didn't exist during his reign and let the rumors as to why fly.

If that is that case than I think he acted both rightly, and chivalrously. Knights are honor bound to speak the truth remember. If he doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t like fencing he would be acting unchivalrously by actively promoting and patronizing it. I understand that the King must make many sacrifices for the sake of the kingdom but being false or untrue to your beliefs is not one of them.

ItÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s been mentioned before that if a King does not drink, he may ask that the crown not be gifted with any alcohol, may decide to not have a royal brewer, and will probably not patronize any brewing or venting competitions. There is nothing wrong with any of that, and the six months of his reign should not adversely effect the brewing community.

From the letter, that is exactly what the King is saying. He doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t say that there will be no fencing during the reign, he simply says that the crown wonÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t be there in presence or spirit.

Now, it seems from many posts here that the King may be taking an active role in trying to get rid of fencing all together, and is being unpleasant to the community. That is a different matter, and I cannot comment as I have no first hand knowledge. I would just ask that those who do comment, make clear whether they are speaking about the letter, or about the current actions of the King.

-Justus

Baron Alejandro · Post by **Baron Alejandro** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:02 pm

This topic is a minefield. And there is no way to express feelings on it without probably stepping on a mine somewhere along the way, much less planting a few of our own.

I cordially disagree with my friend Syr Justus, even though I have a tremendous amount of respect for him. And I studiously avoid getting hit by him as often as I can.

Where I disagree with Justus, is that I believe that even though His Majesty Meridies might dislike or disapprove of rapier, I do not feel it was necessary to say some of those things. He could have simply coolly ignored the issue and left it at that. Instead, he chose to say some things that I feel may cost him in his legacy and reign. I do not feel His Majesty spoke the truth. I believe he spoke from his spleen.

If you don't like brewing, that's fine. Don't have a royal brewer, and don't go to brewing contests. But that's no reason to stand up and shout 'you're all alchoholics!'

I also feel that the best response to this was given by Graf Tar Radu, Primus Rex Gleann Abhann -

I want to apologize to all those I said I would see at Meridian
Coronation, but we are not going to be able to be there. If His
Highness wishes to distance himself from Rapier, then as a rapier
fighter I will follow his wishes on this and stay away.

Radu
Primus Rex Gleann Abhann

God keep the valiant and stalward Jean-Michel, and all the stout warriors of Meridies, in all disciplines and cotes of armor.

William of Otterton · Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:03 pm

Griffin de Stockport wrote:
3. Royalty shall be the chief examples of chivalry, courtesy, and the other virtues appropriate to the ideals of the Society, and shall inspire these virtues in their subjects. They shall be true and faithful rulers for their subjects, uphold their subjectsÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ rights and work for their benefit, and maintain an impartial justice for all in the realm.
Kind of hard to be a fencer and aspire to the ideals of chivalry and courtesy when you know there's not going to be any Royal acknowledgement of your efforts for a time...

Ah well, life goes on.

To those who have commented on my statement, I admit I wasn't entirely clear in my opinion and for that I do apologize. Better phrasing would have helped, but at least one person understood my intent. I'm the last person that would do anything in the SCA, or in the real world, simply because I expect a cookie for it when I'm done.

Hell, I was in the SCA for close to 9 years before even getting my AoA. Not because I didn't do anything, but quite simply I work behind the scenes so that others around me have as grand a time as possible. It was only after making some offhand "I'm a commoner, not a Lord" remark one afternoon that my canton mates realized I didn't have my AoA and had it quickly thrust upon me at our next event... I'm in the SCA for the enjoyment of it, and a great deal of that enjoyment comes from seeing the throngs around me all having the best time that they can.

More to the point of what I meant, and Mateo was really close to it, is that I find it difficult that the King, a Knight himself and thus a supposed paragon of virtue and chivalry, can have such a non-inclusive view of His populace. If Godwine, the person, doesn't like fencing... so be it I have no issue with that. However, as the Crown, one of their stated purposes is to "inspire their subjects" by their examples of chivalry and virtue. How can someone on the throne basically tell an entire community that they're not appreciated on the Royal level and still feel that you're performing your duty as the Crown? It boggles my mind.

The previous reign in Ealdormere, under Edward the Red and Rylan, was a very fun time for myself and many others. This was a King who is, obviously, a Knight from heavy combat, a fencing MIT and an avid and skilled archer. He was at a great many events and always participating with his subjects and sharing their wins and losses right along side of them. This to me, was what I meant by "Royal acknowledgement". That the Crown is there, as much as realistically possible, to share in the activities of the populace.

The power of the Royalty, and their whims logical or not, can be very strong. A reign in Ealdormere not very long ago, under Mailk I believe, decreed that no woman who is called into Royal Court shall come in unescorted. Since then, it's become the norm that any woman called up ends up with an escort. Fitting and chivalrous to a great level. However, it was just a whim of that reign but now has seemingly become a point of honour for the populace. With the Crown stating that something is "uncool" can certainly have a long-lasting and far-reaching effect - probably not for many of the strongly-opinionated folks here, but for the unwashed masses it certainly can.

Hopefully clearer,
Griffin

Syrfinn · Post by **Syrfinn** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:10 pm

Ok, though I am not to sure I like the idea, it is their Majesties right to do so, if they wish.

But looking at that letter, I dont recall seeing that he would not be giving awards to those fencers who deserve them and such.

Their Majesties just have chosen not to have a Champion for their reign. That is thier whim.

We have had in our kingdom, the same thing I believe on a couple of occassions, where the Queen, did not have a Queens rapier champion, cause she did not personally like fencing or whatever. Cant remember exactly her reasons. Did I agree with them, nope, but it was her whim.

Does it discourage the fencers, yes, and that I do not like. Since most who have been doing this for a very long time, have been thru a lot of hell to begin with, so this in a way, probably scares them. The fencers have already had an uphill battle in the SCA to begin with.

Luckily, this is for 6 months, and all their Majesties are doing is not having a champion. Honestly, think about it. With knowing how they feel about fencing, would you really want to be their champion. Just go about your normal business and hopefully the next set of crowns dont follow suit.

But reading the letter he put out, I dont see anything wrong, and he actually put it in a very nice way. Its his whim, and he has strong feelings on it. Other than upsetting some folks, which in every reign your gonna piss off someone, thats all he has done.

I dont agree with the decision, but its also not my choice, and he is free to do what he feels. Maybe his next reign if he has another one, he might change his view.

If anything, if I was the fencers in Meridies, i would be going out of my way, to show their majesties, how wrong they are about the safety and such, and kill them with kindness.

Luckily the fencers in my area, are probably better examples of Royalists, then most of the heavy fighters here.

Which is why they are the Queens Champions.

St. George · Post by **St. George** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:13 pm

Didn't Max actually ban fencing from his sight or something? From what I understand he did something pretty radical.

Alaric

Johann ColdIron · Post by **Johann ColdIron** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:21 pm

Hmmm,

I am not much on outrage, it takes too much energy

I am interested in being analytical about his actual statement though.

"I have personal views on the safety of fencing and its place in the SCA as it currently performed"

Before I started fighting with rapiers I too had concerns about the safety of the combat. How do those minimal hilts protect your hands? Will people hurt me with their weapons? How do I not flat snap someone when pressed

Most were answered by the patient local rapier community. The others I answered by doing. It appears he has done neither.

I found that most of my safety concerns were predicated by my experience in Armoured combat and really have no application in rapier. It is pretty safe. Though I have probably received more, generally smaller, brusies with rapier than in armor.

The second part I have to assume is a observation of post SCA period gear on/off the field. He could have easily made a Royal whim that all equipment be from SCA period and only temporarily inconvienced a limited number of folks. Well within his powers without causing such an uproar.

I wonder if he expected the reaction he has gotten or has this grown as all things in the SCA do once they hit the internet? Would it have not been better to have a dialog with the people of his Kingdom that participate in the activity in question and try to come to an understanding of his interests?

Josh W · Post by **Josh W** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:26 pm

Does he think SCA fencing is less safe than collegiate/olympic fencing?

co10Broek · Post by **co10Broek** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:45 pm

Does he think SCA fencing is less safe than collegiate/olympic fencing?

Hi Josh, from the conversations I've had. I would say yes. The fact that the few incidents which have been reported have been handled correctly simply implies that there are many more incidents which fencers don't report.

To those who look to Godwine's willingness to look at C&T, I doubt that based on his unwillingness to look at it in the past. He couldn't even get past whether or not the blades we use in rapier (Meridies is a Schlager only kingdom) were not "live steel", which I guess means a sharpened blade.

Jean-Michel