Unpadded polearm sidebar question

Winterfell · Post by **Winterfell** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:57 pm

So.
Can anyone here tell the difference if you got bashed by the "blade" or the haft of an unpadded polearm, if you do not actually see the strike?

Ceddie · Post by **Ceddie** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:40 pm

Honor dictates that I tell my opponent if and when I hit with the haft or flat, I hope to receive the same courtesy. My poles all have lugs and hooks (and some have shaved hafts) I know when I hit bad. I'll tell you.

Winterfell · Post by **Winterfell** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:01 pm

Honor and being told aside.
Anyway to tell the difference?

Ceddie · Post by **Ceddie** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:13 pm

nope. not if you don't see it.

Saburou · Post by **Saburou** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:31 pm

Excuse me, I am new to this game, but is this not the same issue with swords (great-, bastard, or broad-) which have only one marked edge? Or, for that matter, is this not also the same issue with the two (or more) "flats" of the blade of a rattan sword?

I was at my first woods battle at Vinland Raids on Saturday and both hit someone flat with my nagamaki (and let them know, after they had taken it, allowing them to stay in the game) and was hit by a flat (of a one-handed sword) and was told thus, keeping me alive. It was a minor distraction, but for both of our "lives," I'm sure it was worth the five seconds...

Again, correct me if I misunderstand your question, Winterfell. This whole padded/unpadded discussion is interesting as all get out.

Euric Germanicus · Post by **Euric Germanicus** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:42 pm

Alex,

Were you on the side of his Majesty or on the side of Master Feral? (I was on Feral's side, Green tape)

I know it's off the topic, but I was there too

Fought at the side of my master all day, was in black Lorica. Come say hello if you ever see me at an event

Back on topic:

I've been hafted, and knew I was hafted the second it happened. I treated it as what it was, his trying to get me out of his face. At range it is harder to tell, though most (I stress the MOST) have enough honor to inform you if you were hit with a haft. Sounds exactly the same as a good blow, imo.

Blackoak · Post by **Blackoak** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:13 pm

Smaller fights are one thing. When you are in a large mash, and being hit with spear shafts and what not, it is hard to distinguish what is hitting you.

I would not be able to tell the difference, and in a melee it is hard to discuss it.

Uric

Ceddie · Post by **Ceddie** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:49 pm

Uuic,
That's easy, if it hit you it wasn't a spear shaft. You can't strike with a spear.

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:24 pm

Ceddie wrote:Uuic,
That's easy, if it hit you it wasn't a spear shaft. You can't strike with a spear.

Does not make any less the fact that I have been hit by the haft of a spear. :shock:

Angusm0628 · Post by **Angusm0628** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:28 pm

In single combats, If I haft you, You are told "haft"...In melee's such as Pennsic the same (provided at that point it's not a massive pile on of bodies where I can tell for sure)......
The rules of Pennsic state that there is no such thing as a "flat" during melee combat...I kinda think it's cheesy but can see where it tries to stop the "it was flat...NO it was good....No it was flat" arguments during the battles...Having said that I know of too many people that rely on that ruling to make their poor control and or ability a kill....
Again it comes back to the honor of the bearer of an unpadded pole to be aware of his weapon and how it was applied..

Jean Paul de Sens · Post by **Jean Paul de Sens** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:33 pm

InsaneIrish wrote:
Ceddie wrote:Uuic,
That's easy, if it hit you it wasn't a spear shaft. You can't strike with a spear.

Does not make any less the fact that I have been hit by the haft of a spear.

Yah, cause you know, an ash or oak wood shaft of a spear would have absolutely no effect to man in armour regardless of how hard it hit him upside the head, right?

:roll:

Ceddie · Post by **Ceddie** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:34 pm

InsaneIrish wrote:
Ceddie wrote:Uuic,
That's easy, if it hit you it wasn't a spear shaft. You can't strike with a spear.

Does not make any less the fact that I have been hit by the haft of a spear.

How did you know it was haft?
Did you keep fighting?

For what it's worth "me to" but so what it didn't count, he yelled "HAFT" and we kept fighting.

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:41 pm

Jean Paul de Sens wrote:Yah, cause you know, an ash or oak wood shaft of a spear would have absolutely no effect to man in armour regardless of how hard it hit him upside the head, right?

All your statements are true JP, but I still don't like unpadded poles.

I think of the 2 lesser evils I want my polearm to at least LOOK like a polearm.

Ceddie:

I know it was haft because I saw him throw the shot at me. And no I did not continue the fight because we left the field to have a short talk about hafting, and since it was not a res battle I did not feel right re-entering the fight in the back.

The guy was very frustrated that he wasn't getting any kills (they were pretty much all bouncing off shield edges or tops of my and others helms) and he "snapped" for a split second and bopped me on top of the head. he was very appologetic and after a short discussion about "control on the field" we parted ways and continued the days fighting.

Ceddie · Post by **Ceddie** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:56 pm

Irish,
Cool, you made a good call. I can respect your right to not like the unpadded pole arms.

I really don't like the power needed to get people to call the MUSH of the padded heads.

Just so you know, I made a padded bill hook so I can fight with it for a while to better understend the mechanics of the weapon. I do like the look but I don't like the way it hits.

next I'll try the split head pole arm.

Jean Paul de Sens · Post by **Jean Paul de Sens** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:02 pm

Ceddie wrote:Irish,
Cool, you made a good call. I can respect your right to not like the unpadded pole arms.

I really don't like the power needed to get people to call the MUSH of the padded heads.

Just so you know, I made a padded bill hook so I can fight with it for a while to better understend the mechanics of the weapon. I do like the look but I don't like the way it hits.

next I'll try the split head pole arm.

I already have foam head ones, so I'm going to make a split one.

Adriano · Post by **Adriano** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:48 pm

Angusm0628:

The rules of Pennsic state that there is no such thing as a "flat" during melee combat...I kinda think it's cheesy but can see where it tries to stop the "it was flat...NO it was good....No it was flat" arguments during the battles...Having said that I know of too many people that rely on that ruling to make their poor control and or ability a kill....

That's a new one on me, and I can't find anything like that in the published marshalling conventions for the upcoming Pennsic. Are you sure that isn't just a rumor? Regardless, I won't let an opponent take a flat as good if I can help it.

I've yet to come up against unpadded polearms; don't like the idea.

Angusm0628 · Post by **Angusm0628** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:11 pm

Nope not a new one....I distinctly remember reading it in the Pennsic Handbook at one point and saying "hmmmm"...If I can find my copy from last year and the year before I will try and locate the page it was on under the 'conventions of combat" or some such.....Really I'm not makin this up I did read it in a Pennsic Handbook....Just have to give me some time to dig them up and find the passage...

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:44 am

Jean Paul de Sens wrote:
I already have foam head ones, so I'm going to make a split one.

I have been toying with the idea of rebuilding my glaive with a clacker head.

I truely believe there is a comprimise in that set up that will allow for the safety give and profile of the padded pole while still giving the CLACK of the unpadded one.

guess I need to get back into the shop

Robert P. Norwalt · Post by **Robert P. Norwalt** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:56 am

Winterfell wrote:Honor and being told aside.
Anyway to tell the difference?

Not for me. Too much going on. Usually my brian is in "hyper" mode trying to fight my fight, while making instantanious judgements as to weather I'm dead yet or not, at the same time trying to keep enough grey matter "loose" to adjudge the melee. So if I get wacked by a pole, I just take it. If they come up and say "oh no Mi'Lord that was a flat, I don't argue one way or another.

~Oengus