The Armour Archive

Read through Froissart last night, and I am not convinced about this "taking off the spurs" stuff.
Knights dismount and go directly into engagement- mentioned over and over. If there is some egalitarian reason that we are avoiding the traditional symbols of knighthood, somebody please contact me via IM.

Yes, it is damn punk rock to wear plate and proper arming clothes.

As Black Flag said- Rise Above.

Jealous cowards try to control
Rise above
Were gonna rise above
They distort what we say
Rise above
Were gonna rise above
Try and stop what we do
Rise above
When they cant do it themselves

We are tired of your abuse
Try to stop us its no use

Societys arms of control
Rise above
Were gonna rise above
Think theyre smart
Cant think for themselves
Rise above
Were gonna rise above
Laugh at us
Behind our backs
I find satisfaction
In what they lack

We are tired of your abuse
Try to stop us its no use

We are born with a chance
Rise above
Were gonna rise above
I am gonna have my chance
Rise above
Were gonna rise above

We are tired of your abuse
Try to stop us its no use

Rise above


Kinda spooky.

I think the spur thing can be decided by each and every individual who will be competeing in the tourney. SCA knight of not, they could wear spurs if they can compete since they are playing the roles of knights. The spurs would have to be of 14th century design and be of gold, silver bronze or latten... Not chrome....

I understand that people would love such a thing, but to tell you the truth, I dont give a rats ass about spectators.... I know that makes me a bad guy, but I am not doing it for them. My brothers in arms have been just waiting on the threshhold for something like this and someone just needed to break the dam.

By planning this as early as we can and crying this even in all kingdoms, then we provide inspiration to everyone who hears these words. Everyone who wants to be transported to an alternate 14th century for the day will have a goal of getting a 14th century kit together. I dont think thats such a bad thing.....

OMG
This is really starting to get interesting.
So essentially it is going to be a LH mini event at Pennsic. I love it.
A couple of questions that were tossed around but I am not sure if I got it straight.
1. Servants (except for handmaidens/ladies in waiting) they should be all male or a convincing appearence of male by a female. Will list herald's wear specific heraldry? Should households servants wear household livery? (ooo actually like that one)
2. Porta potties (Order them up special? or make arrangements with Coopers?)
3. Visitors or invitees? Due to garb requirements will this be something where spectators are also pre-approved? If people show up in so-so soft kits will the be turned away? Or will they be put in a special area?
4. Visiting royalty? Could/should something even be done to help out a royal who wants to participate/spectate but only has a so so kit?
5. Armour:
a. Will there examples of what the armour should be expected to look like? Either in drawings or in photos?
b. Will there be a list of what is acceptable and what isn't?
c. Will my wife kill me for building an entirely new set for this?
d. Arming tents? Bring my own or will there a communal one provided?

And last but not least, how can I help?

Jehan de Pelham wrote:Wow. I thought I had balls to try this level of tightness in a non-SCA setting. This is outright brazen-ness.

I salute it.

Things have reached the point where "punk" is wearing full plate and authentic clothing, and laying aside the artifices and regalia of an organization which has become increasingly self referent, in an attempt to reach a purer thing...

There's a certain rik of becoming too insular in such things, though.

We do a lot of "more period" things within the circle of Ring Tribe, Jehan. However, we ration a lot of it out because the SCA isn't completely ready for it yet.

I've seen a lot of attempts a periodicity, most of which has inspired other people to better their own display. Some steps by those inspired are small, such as covering ugly with a tabard - but they are steps. Some are dramatic - such as the Combat of the thirty.

To many people fall into the trap of letting the best be the enemy of the good. The whole more period setting gets ruined for them because they can see the camp chair inside the tent where someone forgot to close the flap; they wind up leaving the SCA - with its ready audience and appreciation for such things - they start a group, it goes great guns for a while - then begins to disintegrate from the inevitable attrition.

In the end, there's a wonderful kit gathering dust in the closet, because a bitterness has been nurtured in themselves to the extent that they are the epitome of "All dressed up and no place to go."

Other's, though, stay and inspire people to reach for better things. I salute them. It's thanks to efforts like these - Ten years ago, I wasn't suprised to see blue plastic armor. It was relatively common. Today, I find myself shocked even to see it at practice in all but the most rank beginner.

That's progress, and progress which is often invisible to people on the inside, but significant progress.

Murdock wrote:Hell yall get together and do 14thCenturyMafia.com

Draft of some more art I am working on:
[img]http://home.armourarchive.org/members/flonzy/images/Art/14cWantsYou2.jpg[/img]

Murdock wrote:James if you neeeeedddd a pic i'm an attention whore, you can use a pic of lil ole me.

Anyone with a good image of a good suit of armor with no SCA weapons (good replica swords or pollarms welcome) or modern items in the back ground please email them; the bigger the image the better I need it to be at least 560x330 to fit in the interface. I can cut an even larger photo.

Keg wrote:If you are going to request that SCA station items be removed then I would suggest that knight/squire belts and knight chains be discarded for even more of a 14th c feel. Possibally even encourage the wearing of spurs.

I have no problem with a gold chain as long as it is period; I was going to add "lamp shade chains" as part of the rule I thought of.

Love that poster James. Great work

Read through Froissart last night, and I am not convinced about this "taking off the spurs" stuff.
Knights dismount and go directly into engagement- mentioned over and over.

If the shit hits the fan when your crapping you'll go straight to battle without your brais.
We're not speaking of battle here though but of tournement- are there any descriptions in Foissart that apply? Spurs are not mentioned in the Hastings Mns which is about fighting on foot in the lists ( It's a little later I know) likewise the John Hill treatise which is a little closer to out time (1434). In fact Hill recommends that the sabatons be left off until he acctually arrives at the lists.

I know it is much later but the images from Le Jeu de la Hache show no spurs and some do not have sabatons.

Winterfell wrote:1. Servants (except for handmaidens/ladies in waiting) they should be all male or a convincing appearence of male by a female. Will list herald's wear specific heraldry? Should households servants wear household livery? (ooo actually like that one)

Great ideas, need to check up on the livery rules of the late 14th century, I don't think they were the same as in the 15th century.

Winterfell wrote:3. Visitors or invitees? Due to garb requirements will this be something where spectators are also pre-approved? If people show up in so-so soft kits will the be turned away? Or will they be put in a special area?

Inside the ropes must conform to the final requirements that are agreed upon. I have already started making planes for pictures and illustrations to help in this matter.

Winterfell wrote:4. Visiting royalty? Could/should something even be done to help out a royal who wants to participate/spectate but only has a so so kit?

Going back to the idea of no SCA regalia this should include "rank" titles outside Knight and non SCA rank squire. Frankly no one in the SCA can really truly pull off a royal impression so we should all just be knights, squires, lords, ladies, or a peasant at a tournament. Rank in our area should be based on clothing.

Winterfell wrote:5. Armour:
a. Will there examples of what the armour should be expected to look like? Either in drawings or in photos?

Yes I will make sure this happens.

Winterfell wrote:b. Will there be a list of what is acceptable and what isn't?

Yes

Winterfell wrote:c. Will my wife kill me for building an entirely new set for this?

Yes please will me your HE legs and Tom Justus Helmet.

Winterfell wrote:d. Arming tents? Bring my own or will there a communal one provided?

Good questions, I say we should have communal tents for logistics and space saving reasons.

I have a few hours before I fly away.....

I say bring your tent. The more tents we have, the less sheet wall we have to have That goes for sunshades too. If they have arms on them, cool! if they are just plain canvas, thats good with me too Just no yurts please

If a king can pull it off, then let them play visiting king. Same with a duke and such. I dont want to totally remove ourselves from and sca event. We are at one after all, but everyone should play by our rules while in our sandbox....

I tried e-mailing the mayor of pennsic a few days ago and havnt had any response.. Does anyone have a personal e-mail for that person?

Thanks for thinking of me, Aaron.

Angus, I'll volunteer to help vet soft martial kit along with Klaus and Cet's hard kit vetting if you guys will have me, and especially if Klaus doesn't make it out next year -- no guarantees for him from California this far in advance, I'm betting. If you don't know about me at all, you can ask either Cet or Klaus; they both know my work well. You could also ask Master Galleron, Asbjorn Johansen, or anyone in St. Michaels, or the ARS, or Patrick Thaden.

As for spectators, you might not be doing it for them, but you probably should have requirements in place for them, because you can't exactly force them not to be there... You can require them to meet certain standards most likely, as passive participants, just as the active martial participants will have standards to meet. So at least if they're going to happen, let them happen in the best way possible, which is to add to the ambience, not take away from it.

And, many of your participants will get a LOT of enjoyment out of well-presented spectators. Just something to think about, anyway.

-Tasha

" Things have reached the point where "punk" is wearing full plate and authentic clothing, and laying aside the artifices and regalia of an organization which has become increasingly self referent, in an attempt to reach a purer thing..."

Yup thats it.

V even found the Black Flagg song.

I could go into what i truly think but with an angry baby in my lap it's hard to verbalize without sounding self serving.

There are people who will refuse to be average.

I'll back Tasha for garb checker. I do think that the "geneal public" should be held to a bit of a lower standard than the fighters and their retainers. All Tasha's suggestions are good.

BUT as this is for the participants, they should be non jarring. IE no eletric blue polyester, walkmans, sunglasses, beer cans, plastic chairs,
no poly cotton, no tennis shoes, ect ect. Doing the Bocksten man look(even in cotton) is not hard, that should be a basic minimum.


Winterfell, asked what about making exceptions for Roylaty who may only have so so gear?

Ummm this is gonna sound kinda mean...but... if you've been around long enough to get that good and your a King and your gear _still_ looks like shit.... then tough toenails.

If your royalty, you've been around long enough to have some decent stuff, or know someone who you can borrow it from. Heck at Pennsic you can go down to the merchants and buy it. Even a high class outfit. There's no excuse for some one of that station to have gear so bad that they cannot get in.

Now if they do a different period then thats a bit different. But still there are merchants and people have freinds. Sir Crispin was in a totally borrowed rig for the 30, he did it. Don't think he was the only one either.

Standards are standards everyone meets them or they begin to loose meaning. And if people get to skirt them because of their rank what does that say to "lesser" people who put out the effort?

I'll look James but i don't think i have any pics of the whole rig without any Scadianism's in em. All of em hae a car or some goob in the back in hot pink or blue bucker or rattan or something.

I might have some you could photo shop a bit or 2 out. I have one from the last Meridian Crown i fought in. Jupon and all with collar and plaque belt baby and wife in hand sewn clothes. I think all thats blowing the shot is a car or 2. You could probly crop the weapons out of some of the COT30 shots. But i had the question, if it's a deed fought with SCA weapons... is that a big deal to then have em in the Pic?


I'll have an arming pavillion and i'm gonna try and build a viewing box for the wife and the boy, gonna have a weapon rack and i'm also gonn try and build a least a partial enclosure. And banners, one for me one for Kate one for the baby!!! I might ....MIGHT...try and get a medieval looking saddle to have out as representation of cavalry.
Gonna furnish the Arming tent with the things from how a man shall be armed.

Got armour aditions in the works too. Between buying and Val's shop i think i can get em done.

" 3. Visitors or invitees? Due to garb requirements will this be something where spectators are also pre-approved? If people show up in so-so soft kits will the be turned away? Or will they be put in a special area?
Inside the ropes must conform to the final requirements that are agreed upon. I have already started making planes for pictures and illustrations to help in this matter."

I (personally) do not care what restrictions are put in place. The question I think that needs to be asked is how much shit will be tolerated to achieve this? (You know that some will kavitch)
Will you allow someone who needs to wear sunglasses (do they need to bring a doctors' note?)? How about crutches or a motorized wheelchair?
How exacting for materials (for participants and spectators)? Ten foot, five foot, skin out?

As a suggestion for entourage, find find younger/newer people and offer them an outfit in exchang for their services. You will have the double benefit of help and beautifying the SCA at the same time.

As far as armour standards go- Should a distinction be made between armour of good form vs armour that just approximates actual pieces? For example, flatish overly long breasatplates that cover half the wearers abdomen vs deeply formed breastplates that cover only the ribcage? tapered half cylinders vs shaped greaves?, SCA occularia vs period width?

hmmmmm

thats a good question Cet.

"flatish overly long breasatplates that cover half the wearers abdomen vs deeply formed breastplates that cover only the ribcage?"

I'd like to see only the latter, but i think we can deal with the former.

" tapered half cylinders vs shaped greaves?,"

Again, i'm spoiled cause i have the greaves you made. I'd rather see shaped greaves but i think we can allow some lee way.

" SCA occularia vs period width?"

Here i'd go with the smaller slots. Mine are like half inch at the points maybe 3/4 at the widest part between the points.

I can see, it's no grill but i'm not blind. The HUGE sca slots just look too big on bascinets to me. On great helms it does'nt look that wierd to me though.

I'll outfit any of my retainers, newbies and buddies that wanna attend and such with some of my bockstens and such assuming they fit and they don't have their own. I'll do what i can to keep the theme up.

Gonann need to do laundry at war i suspect.

Gethin wrote:The question I think that needs to be asked is how much shit will be tolerated to achieve this? (You know that some will kavitch)

Will you allow someone who needs to wear sunglasses (do they need to bring a doctors' note?)? How about crutches or a motorized wheelchair?

No doubt making an exclusive tournament at an SCA event will cause some people to get in a twist, I am afraid we won't be able avoid it.

Here is a list of SCAisms I can think of that we will have to make rulings on:

1) Female fighters - I don't know of one instance of a female in a tourney

2) Cross dressing - Lots of women wearing period men’s clothing at Pennsic, the Pennsic examples did not look good.

3) Glasses - This is the big one, so many people refuse to not wear them or use contacts even for a short time. Sunglasses are out, the crowd that wears them all the time 99% would not pass the clothing requirements anyway.

4) Handicapped - There is a period solution, carts and wheelbarrows. Also I foresee it being so rare we could just carry a person in and set them in a chair.

5) Royals and regalia - Going back to the idea of reflecting your class we cannot have the upper class wearing Herjolfsnes gowns, they must dress the part and any "crowns" that are worn need to be historical. Inside the bubble SCA titles are not important. SCA titles like laurel and pelican should be dropped inside the bubble and any regalia reflecting these should be dropped.

6) Pilgrim and carnival badges - Some people go nuts with these things! 20 on a hat should be banned. Naughty carnival badges should be banned, this is not a carnival.

7) Cet's question

There are allot of touchy subjects that will have to be clarified, maybe we should start a planning committee in a yahoo group or such to start kicking around the rules and regulations and get them online.

"1) Female fighters - I don't know of one instance of a female in a tourney"

Yeah, ya gotta point.

"2) Cross dressing - Lots of women wearing period men’s clothing at Pennsic, the Pennsic examples did not look good."

If i recall didn't a fine French girl get torched for that?

"3) Glasses - This is the big one, so many people refuse to not wear them or use contacts even for a short time. Sunglasses are out, the crowd that wears them all the time 99% would not pass the clothing requirements anyway."

No sunglasses. And James is right, those that wear shades pretty much the whole war will have to ditch the flip flops and Target pajama pants too.

"4) Handicapped - There is a period solution, carts and wheelbarrows. Also I foresee it being so rare we could just carry a person in and set them in a chair."

I have a wagon we use to haul tha baby and our stuff around, if it becomes an issue i'll be happy to loan that for thier convienence and assistance.

"5) Royals and regalia - Going back to the idea of reflecting your class we cannot have the upper class wearing Herjolfsnes gowns, they must dress the part and any "crowns" that are worn need to be historical. Inside the bubble SCA titles are not important. SCA titles like laurel and pelican should be dropped inside the bubble and any regalia reflecting these should be dropped."

Agreed. I think this may piss some people off.

"6) Pilgrim and carnival badges - Some people go nuts with these things! 20 on a hat should be banned. Naughty carnival badges should be banned, this is not a carnival."

Yeah i've seen that too, i concur.

"There are allot of touchy subjects that will have to be clarified, maybe we should start a planning committee in a yahoo group or such to start kicking around the rules and regulations and get them online. "

Yeah we're getting kida all over several threads here. A Yahoo group would be more organized.

I'd rather discuss it here- I hate yohoo groups. But I'm a luddite pretty much.


Woman dres ing as men to attend tournements is actually documented in at least one period instance. I think many ladies use this reasoning for their crossdressing.

As far as Royal Regalia, I think it would depend if the "Royals are sitting in state or just attending. I don't thoink crowns were worn very often in practice though I could be wrong. Any one portraying anything from esquire on up should be dressed rather richly if our conciet is one of a formal tournemant. If we're going for a more impromptue or private deed of arms somewhat lesser cloths, such as the hunting outfits from Gaston Phoebus might be appropriate.

Other questions:

What is the format?

Is there a sponsering Nobel or Company?

Will their be tennans holding the list?

With enough sunshades and tents it might be possible to cordon off a section of the primary battelfield to adequately insulate the event. (I have doubts about getting the various OK's to creat a new combat approved zone)

Tasha McG wrote:Thanks for thinking of me, Aaron.

...

As for spectators, you might not be doing it for them, but you probably should have requirements in place for them, because you can't exactly force them not to be there... You can require them to meet certain standards most likely, as passive participants, just as the active martial participants will have standards to meet. So at least if they're going to happen, let them happen in the best way possible, which is to add to the ambience, not take away from it.

And, many of your participants will get a LOT of enjoyment out of well-presented spectators. Just something to think about, anyway.

-Tasha

On that note, I agree that spectators should look the part. However, we will be at an SCA event and the whole purpose of this (other than we want to do it for ourselves 'cause it is cool.) is to educate the SCA about what can happen if enough folks want to take the time and trouble to do things to the best of their abilities within a set of standards. Therefore I'd like to propose that a time be set aside , either at the begining or end of the mini-event to allow those who don't meet the standards to come and look around and ask questions about how this was done and what it took to make it happen.

Thoughts?


Alexander

Cet wrote:
...

With enough sunshades and tents it might be possible to cordon off a section of the primary battelfield to adequately insulate the event. (I have doubts about getting the various OK's to creat a new combat approved zone)

Cet, the idea of using the north woods battle staging area actually has merit. It is already an approved combat zone. Contrary to folk legend, the Coopers will work with special requests if they aren't dumped on them at the last minute. The only obstacle will be getting the Pennsic bureaucracy ( read Mayor) to approve the request. If we follow the rules ( especially the safety conventions) the request should be approved.

If it helps, my wife can cover the medical aspect. She's a licensed physician in Pennsylvania and she was the Chief Churgion for many of the wars whose numbers were the teens to the early twenties, so the Coopers know and like her and more importantly they know the remote site will be staffed by somebody the trust to cover first aid.

Alexander

"If we're going for a more impromptue or private deed of arms somewhat lesser cloths, such as the hunting outfits from Gaston Phoebus might be appropriate."

I'd go with the more "private deed feel" i don't think we can actually pull off the "formal deed feel" yet.

"Other questions:

What is the format?"

I duuno

"Is there a sponsering Nobel or Company?" Umm thats a good question. Maybe those of us building junk/hosting should form a "Company" for this.

If nothing else we need a list of stuff that needs to be made/brought/bought to the lists. Then we can see who has what already and who can make what. No need to have 4 list enclosures, or 3 barriers ya know?

"Will their be tennans holding the list?" I think that'd be a good idea. But just as easily people could simply make challenges to any fighter attending. Hang their arms from a Tree of Charlemange, along with various styles of combat. Outreance, pleasiance, how many blows weapon ect ect ect. An open deed?? More than a Tennan Vennan pas.

"With enough sunshades and tents it might be possible to cordon off a section of the primary battelfield to adequately insulate the event. (I have doubts about getting the various OK's to creat a new combat approved zone)"

Thats why i like the idea of lugging it to the woods. No new area but no goofy mundane stuff everywhere. Also easier to control the access and prevent gate crashers. We put the tents and sunshades mostly on lne side you cover the view or the road and the modern house on the far side of the Woods and keep the forrest as or backdrop.

I gotta start looking for stuff to give as largess at this Emprise.

As format, how about a deed held at the invitation of the King of Arms. (You will want to pick him soon, it is a prominent and vital position) All contestants must meet the standard, then it is open to challenges between all participants.

I always kind of hate being a Tenan because I often want to fight the Tenans more than the Venans.

Winner is chosen by a panel of 2-4 judges and the King of Arms. The ladies of the assemblage should be allowed to sway the vote if someone truly stands out, but not be forced to choose the winner.

Or if a division is desired, split North America up into teams (Participants from outside N. America would be international guests and could be recruited by any of the teams), perhaps 4 quarters (Northwest, Northeast, Southwest, Southeast) and have the teams vie against each other for a group honor as well as an individual.

" the idea of using the north woods battle staging area actually has merit. It is already an approved combat zone. Contrary to folk legend, the Coopers will work with special requests if they aren't dumped on them at the last minute."

Good to hear. I'd heard otherwise but mostly from guys I'd expect to drop stuff on them last minute

Just the logistics of getting to the woods would tend to weed out looky-loos who don't want to bother with meeting standards. I'd resist the temptation to have non-kit folks present either befor or afterward. If befor they'll tend to stick aropund and if after there likely to show up early. Inspiration can come from pictures posted afterwards.

"Winner is chosen by a panel of 2-4 judges and the King of Arms. The ladies of the assemblage should be allowed to sway the vote if someone truly stands out, but not be forced to choose the winner. "

Excellent idea, and your right a King of Arms should be chosen ASAP. I nominate Count Rhys idf he'll be there and is willing

There really is a very short list of potential Kings of Arms for such a deed--in no particular order:

Count Rhys
Duke Finnvarr
HRM Felix
Count Thorvald the Golden
Earl Brion Thornbird

These noble men at arms come to mind, for their proclivities and dedication to such matters. Whether they can be convinced to play the role is another matter entirely, for it is like that their hands will fly to their weapons as soon as the clash of arms commences, for their grete love of deeds and renown.

John
Jehan de Pelham, esquire and servant of Sir Vitus
www.mron.org
Proprietor, The Compagniye Store

I vote for Count Thorvald.

"4) Handicapped - There is a period solution, carts and wheelbarrows. Also I foresee it being so rare we could just carry a person in and set them in a chair."

Better still, sit any who can manage it on a horse with a high saddle.

Thats a hard list there Jehan

have to balance who i'd wanna fight with who i'd want to have the job.

Hmmmmm

Rhys Brian and Felix all have the armour

I don't know Thorvald

I think i'd vote for Finvarr, he's been writing books on the subject.

You may want to consider using the 1381 deed of arms at Vannes as a model.

http://www.nipissingu.ca/department/his ... annes1.htm

It was the right period, fought on foot, and featured multiple fights. Consider upping the number of blows thrown, however. There were other fights in the period fought for a larger number, and I don't think Froissart was actually present, so I wouldn't take his count as gospel.

Galleron

http://www.willscommonplacebook.blogspot.com

So, what about female fighters? Are we simply to be banned from this event then, because there are few referents to women in arms in period? There are accounts of such things, although some folks insist that such women were nothing but whores and women of ill repute. I imagine the truth of it is more complex and surprising than we think, given the bias of the writers at that time. Somewhat like believing the accounts of Suetonius are the unvarnished truth, rather than expressions of his own prejudices.

Personally, I'll not participate in any event that has me acting as someone's handmaiden or pretty princess. I am a warrior, my gender be damned.

Perhaps I would not be welcome at this event no matter how high the fidelity of my kit.

audax

I would not expect female fighters to be banned and while I wouldn't spreak for Sir Angus I will point out that his Lady Wife is the first female Knight of the East.

a few ideas

[img]http://www.malemort.net/engine/getdata.php?id=56[/img]

[img]http://www.malemort.net/engine/getdata.php?id=64[/img]
Also see how the consistancy of period amongst the populace looks.
[img]http://www.malemort.net/engine/getdata.php?id=67[/img]

[img]http://www.malemort.net/engine/getdata.php?id=54[/img]
See how cool they look against nothing but trees.



And the buildings look fairly prefab but good.

[img]http://www.malemort.net/engine/getdata.php?id=40[/img]

And theirs are pretty big. I think we could build a portable fence like the stick fence they have.

Is that from a Renfaire?

Naaaa some French LH group

http://www.malemort.net/mlm/a_frp.htm

I was mainly looking at the buildings, they look like they could be made as facades pretty easy.

Then the crutch, as injured people were brought up earlier.

There's that first shot with everyone in brasie hosen and such.

I'm not impressed by the buildings and would much rather see tents and/or galleries.

I'm picturing a more substantial list fence. The golden/brass chain idea is cool with possibly inner and outer fences around the list. Venue will depend on context- how formal vs how impromptue, alegorical or straight up fights. I really don't know enough about 14th century tourney settings to suggest the range of possibilities.

Since we have so few pics of kids

boy bout 9??

[img]http://www.elvelueuet-hamborch.de/bilder/Timo.jpg[/img]

little better off fella
[img]http://www.elvelueuet-hamborch.de/gruppe/vitas/andreas_02.jpg[/img]
Look at the furniture and table settings

armed boy sitting on a table tressel (i think)

[img]http://www.elvelueuet-hamborch.de/bilder/2001/slides/MA-Arbeitswochenende-Timo.jpg[/img]

Awww hell yall look fer yerselves

http://www.elvelueuet-hamborch.de/

http://www.elvelueuet-hamborch.de/spass/stadtbild.html

http://www.erpyngham-retinue.org.uk/welcome.htm

Servus!

Let me begin by saying how much I admire all of you for attempting to achieve something so bold and unprecedented. I wish you all the best of luck and hopefully my kit will someday be of the level that such an emprise demands!

That being said, allow me to shake a fly or two into the soup.

The emprise is to take place at Pennsic - I would assume to (in part) show that this level of authenticity can be achieved and sustained and to help encourage others to raise their standard of authenticity. Many have said that certain restrictions might piss people off, such as restrictions regarding the dress of spectators and such.

1) If you restrict the level of authenticity of the spectators, who will be able to come see this spectacle and be inspired to reach such heights if the only people who are allowed in are those who have already attained that level of authenticity?

2) You are, in essence, creating a Living History-style display in the middle of the largest SCA event there is. Imagine if, in the middle of "A Crossroads in Time", some crossover SCA members decided to host a "traditional" SCA encampment - complete with Coleman chairs, lawn flamingoes, and "Naked Heavy List" tabards for all entrants. No one would be let into the encampment without a check of garb - sunglasses and trucker caps are mandatory! I doubt that Jehan and the other attendees of "Crossroads" would be particularly thrilled. Now, I'm not saying that you should lift your authenticity requirements one bit to accommodate the rest of Pennsic but prepare yourself for backlash from the masses. Again, if you are trying to change things, how can people see and be astounded if the aren't allow to see until they have already achieved that level?

3) How do you plan on recording this emprise for posterity? A photographer and his implements of construction is jarring as hell, even if he's dressed in the appropriate clothing. Are you willing to make a concession for this and if "yes", why not for other things?

4) Would this not be easier to achieve outside of the realm of the SCA?

I eagerly await your answers to these questions.