The Armour Archive

Emprise not Enterprise.

Jehan de Pelham wrote:James, if you need an image, there are plenty of people here who will donate a likeness, if I am not sore mistaken.

No doubt, I used this fine photo for now but will replace it with one of our own when a good photo free of modern background becomes avalible to me.

Vitus von Atzinger wrote:Emprise not Enterprise.

A fine suggestion; it is a better fitting word and Middle English words add to the flair. I made the change to my interface mock up.

em·prise Pronunciation (m-prz)
n.
1. A chivalrous or adventurous undertaking.
2. Chivalrous daring or prowess.

[Middle English, from Old French, from feminine past participle of emprendre, to undertake, from Vulgar Latin *imprndere : Latin in-, in; see en-1 + Latin prehendere, prndere, to take, grasp; see ghend- in Indo-European roots.]

James, that kicks ass!

I was talking to Gilbert about hosting a site, but if he is ok with it, I say keep on going! I dont think he will have any problem with it!

I'm gonna be gone for the next two weeks, jousting in Scandinavia. I have no idea how much internet access I will have, So, dont wait on me for any decision making on this type of thing. If you have the inkling to do it, go right ahead and just post here so other can know it is done.

When I am back, we can load the site with content, pictures and manuscripts. Maybe also a list of what would need to be done. I just dont want my absense to stall this at all....

The Emprise of the Golden Rope has successfully begun!

James, I have sent you a PM on an unrelated matter, and an email on this matter.

On the site, if you have the ability to fade photographs in on top of one another in sequence, that might be good, especially photographs of those in connection with this emprise, to help re-inforce what this event is about.

John
Jehan de Pelham, esquire and servant of Sir Vitus
www.mron.org

Jehan de Pelham wrote:On the site, if you have the ability to fade photographs in on top of one another in sequence, that might be good, especially photographs of those in connection with this emprise, to help re-inforce what this event is about.

This can be done with ease, I have a java script that fades photos at any speed I wish and pulls them from a folder.

"Sir Johannes I could help with an interface for the 30 and a main Deeds of Arms website too. "

Hell yall get together and do 14thCenturyMafia.com

James if you neeeeedddd a pic i'm an attention whore, you can use a pic of lil ole me.

And this jumps out at me


"I'm gonna be gone for the next two weeks, jousting in Scandinavia."

Man that must just suck.

"More ideas for the Enterprise of the Golden Rope. Seperate people watching by class of thier kit, bog tunics and Herjolfsne gowns on the "poor" side and pourpoints and fitted womens gowns on the "rich" side. All the "poor" people should be forced to stand but if we can pull it off a ladies gallery on the rich side would be cool. We could even have refreshments and servers with period table wear."

That would be cool. But ALOT of sca people are gonna be put off by that. Espically the ones that don't dress their ....ummmm.....thier....estate... in the sca.

"Also ban SCA only jewelry like ring belts, office belts (lural and pelican), corrnets, and all knight and squire belts must be of a correct design (color is meaningless back then, fittings are the key)."

Thats gotta be done in conjunction with the first part. If you don't you'll have somone in a crown and pesant clothes. Really mess up the photo gallery.

Maybe phrase it as "Dress your part, do not woory about your regalia. Unless it fits in style and social class of your chosen clothes for the day."

Yall know that we're gonna need like a day of setup for this.

"Mind your Station" is good advice, but takes more to do than people think. While there were poor knights in Europe, they were very careful not to look poor, and most people do not want to invest that much in a hobby.

Something that is lacking in nearly all modern medieval undertakings is servants. They were everywhere in period, but modern folk don't like playing that part. Every noble should have a couple, and more than that if he brings his lady.

There is a year to plan, but this is a monumental undertaking. Try to phase some of these things in over time would be my suggestion, so the important things get done out of the gate.

If anyone wants advice with putting together appropriate belts, email me off list and I will see what I can do to help. I know a bit about them, have a substantial collection of real pieces, and just like the stuff.

I feel my long-standing belt frustration finally falling away... people are paying attention... *relief*.... *hope*....

-Tasha

Tasha McG wrote:I feel my long-standing belt frustration finally falling away... people are paying attention... *relief*.... *hope*....

Nagging invariably pays off

Good thing you're in Australia. (For you, that is.)

Somebody needs to design a list pole. If the plans are online, that means that everyone should be able to make a couple so nobody has to haul a crapload to the War.

Tasha McG wrote:Good thing you're in Australia. (For you, that is.)

It is a fairly decent headstart for avoiding an intercontinental thwap

Hauling a crapload to War wouldn't be a problem fo me and I need to make a list anyway.

Here's my two cents...

I do think a 'wear hose or hose off' approach is good. What better way to get a 14th century mentality than by wearing 14th century undergarments

I personally think the abolition of plastic is one of the best things that can be done. An undertaking like this to me would demand a determination to remove any affiliation with the modern world (even for an hour) and finding alternatives to plastic does this well and encourages that extra effort from participants.

If you are going to request that SCA station items be removed then i would suggest that knight/squire belts and knight chains be discarded for even more of a 14th c feel. Possibally even encourage the wearing of spurs.

While it is utterly impossible to attend this event I believe it will show a glorious example to all of the downright spiffyness that can be accomplished with a bit of determination. To this end I offer to help in this undertaking in whatever way I can from this great distance.

I am excessively jealous of you all

Do any of you folks follow Master Galleron de Crecy's blog, A Commonplace Book?

http://willscommonplacebook.blogspot.com/

He doesn't write exclusively about martial stuff, but a lot of it is on-topic for what's being discussed here.

-Tasha

Keg wrote: Possibally even encourage the wearing of spurs.

How about DIScourage it. With no horses anywhere in sight they seem awful silly to be walking around in. Not to mention inconvenient.

Agreed.

John
Jehan de Pelham, esquire and servant of Sir Vitus
www.mron.org

Do you really think dismounted knights in the 14th century took off their gilded or latten spurs?

I think spurs would depend on the theme of the event you are trying to emulate.

For example if it was styled after the C30 then I think spurs would have been very likely. Especially when it is mentioned that Guillaume de Montauban jumped on a horse and rode through the english.

To me it seems a nice added touch seeing as the knights were of course horsemen. Not to mention the fact that spurs look and sound very cool

I definately understand it not being overly practical but even for a procession they would add that extra bit of flair or 'ye olde bling'

In the field, with horses behind the formation, no. Dismounted expecting to see combat that might require a pursuit, no.

But I also do not believe a knight woke up in the morning, prepared for a day on foot and thought, "Gee, I'd better put my spurs on!" any more than he thought he better strap on his sword before he came down to break his fast.

These things are tools, and although then as now they had significance beyond their usefulness, they are a nuisance when walking around on foot. A man servant can easily take these off when you do not need them, carry them for you, and put them on for you if you do need them.

Yes I do think they took them off. If I remember correctly, and I could be totally wrong, when the English dismounted for Agincourt it specifically mentions them taking off thier spurs.

I have a pair of beautiful silver spurs one of my squires bought for me. I also compete in swordfighting on the ground and jousting in Europe and even I take my spurs off to fight on the ground. I think every knight who has worn spurs while fighting on the ground has tripped up in them at some point. Why would you even risk it in a fight for you life?

I think spurs on or off would likely be an individual decision unless ordered y a captain such as when Hugh Cavely ( or was it Chandos) had his men remove there legharness to better fight on foot.

Well, I have never tripped on my spurs, but point taken.

SirAngus wrote:James, that kicks ass!

I was talking to Gilbert about hosting a site, but if he is ok with it, I say keep on going! I dont think he will have any problem with it!

Nope... no problem... go for it The offer will still be there if needed for something else.

I'm gonna be gone for the next two weeks, jousting in Scandinavia. I have no idea how much internet access I will have, So, dont wait on me for any decision making on this type of thing. If you have the inkling to do it, go right ahead and just post here so other can know it is done.

When I am back, we can load the site with content, pictures and manuscripts. Maybe also a list of what would need to be done. I just dont want my absense to stall this at all....

The Emprise of the Golden Rope has successfully begun!

Vitus von Atzinger wrote:Emprise not Enterprise.

We don't have an example of this being done before in the SCA, so we are "boldly go where no SCAer has gone before." Isn't enterprise the right word?

I'll see if William Shatner is available as a herald.

Just kidding Sir Vitus!

I'm not sure how...But damn, I AM gonna be at this event.

Maybe I missed it but has it been decided exactly what timeframe in the 14C this will be? Gotta know so I can get it going.

Unless people object I'd like to go for 1399. The year Henry IV stepped up to the throne. No real reason to pick it except that it allows the full plate of the 14th century and the start of great bascinets.

I think clothing and armour should be of a style between 1350 and 1399. A kit does not have to be a single regional style but bonus points if it is!

As for the mention of SCA regalia.. it falls under the complete 14th century kit theme... No ring belts no matter what color they are. If you want to come in, you'll have to take that bowie knife off your belt. Sorry Sir, I love the hosen and the doublet is beautiful, but no engineer boots. I'm sorry your magesty, but you spandex tights are verbotten and I dont care how old your knight belt is, it's just not 14th century.... I know some people will not like the idea but they have plenty of opportunity to get things right.

I love the idea of division between the classes! If a noble dresses as a noble, they should be treated as a noble!

I would also love to start the tournament with a mass blessing, done by someone in a bishops outfit and done in latin! I'm not a religeous guy, but it just seems like something that should be done!

SirAngus wrote:Unless people object I'd like to go for 1399. The year Henry IV stepped up to the throne. No real reason to pick it except that it allows the full plate of the 14th century and the start of great bascinets.

I think clothing and armour should be of a style between 1350 and 1399. A kit does not have to be a single regional style but bonus points if it is!

Thank you Sir Angus, I have been bouncing around with two diffrent timeframes. A Von Hohenklingon, and another based about 1305ish(what can I say, I'm a maille slut that doesn't quit sound right )

So I guess the VH gets done first...Thnaks again for the time frame..

Eamonn

Ok, now we really need to set up a panel of judges to accept combattants.

I personally vote for Cet and Klaus. One for his exceptional knowledge of armor and one for his exceptional knowledge of clothing from that period.

Any other suggestions? I do not speak for those gentles, only beg that they would accept this office.

I would also like to see one more knowledgeable person to make a triumverate. Then it would be majority rules.....

I would think that a petition would have to include a picture of the kit you intend to wear and a full description of the materials and other pertainent information. Then when someone is accepted, thier picture will be posted on the website. Perhaps we will even have 7 gentles who are the "companions of the guilded cord" who will accept the challenges of all comers.......

For noncombattants, we should just have examples of what is acceptable dress from head to toe for different stations. Then they will be allowed on that day or not. It is upto them to make sure they have it correct. I bet we can get endorsed by Historic Enterprises, the Gilded Boar and Revival Clothing has already expressed an interest in helping us.

At some point we will have to figure out how we can acrue some $$$ for this. I expect much of the materials will be donated, but I bet we can create a cafepress shop that can generate some income and perhaps a few other ways.... Wouldnt it be cool to get your US dollars changed into 14th century coins before you entered the gates and you could buy things with them while inside? I know money can be a very slippery slope but it will eventually become a necessity. Lets not worry about it right now.. But soon, I think it will rear it's ugly head... Just so everyone is on the same page, NO ONE WILL MAKE A PROFIT FROM THIS.

" I personally vote for Cet and Klaus. One for his exceptional knowledge of armor and one for his exceptional knowledge of clothing from that period."


I'll seond that since between the 2 of em they made about 85% of my rig.



I'd say for the purpose of the toureny and keeping it doable we should set the time as 1350-1400

That lets most of the high end 14thC kits play, and creates a narrow enough time frame to be coheient.

How about Tasha McG as our clothing checker? Maybe if we gave her a switch or something for authority...

SirAngus wrote:
For noncombattants, we should just have examples of what is acceptable dress from head to toe for different stations. Then they will be allowed on that day or not. It is upto them to make sure they have it correct.

Once again I ask....

Finally, how restrictive will the rules be? Period fabric, no obvious modern items? Will you allow corrective lenses, contacts or other modern corrective devices?

Gosh, this sounds tremendous.

Personally, I think those who can wear contacts should so so. Glasses should be in medieval frames or good approximations and should only be accepted as a genuine last resort (ie you are medically unable to wear contact lenses). Absolutely no tinted glass.

These are just my preferences, I have no authority in this.

Muc as I appreciate the effort to get away from the cars and all, I think it would inspirational to a great many people if it were something they could more readily access and see without having to take a long hike up into the boonies.

How about behind the castle front?

Wow. I thought I had balls to try this level of tightness in a non-SCA setting. This is outright brazen-ness.

I salute it.

Things have reached the point where "punk" is wearing full plate and authentic clothing, and laying aside the artifices and regalia of an organization which has become increasingly self referent, in an attempt to reach a purer thing...

Wow.

John
Jehan de Pelham, esquire and servant of Sir Vitus
www.mron.org