The Armour Archive

Maeryk wrote:

2: you got it there (proper angle, shot was open, etc) but didnt have enough sufficient force for me to call it.
3: I would call that blow in a tourney (shot was open, nothing blocked or skipped, had sufficient force)
4: I would call that in Crown

I understand the distinction between 2 and 3.

But isnt the distinction between 3 and 4 dishonest and unfair to the game we are supposed to be playing?

Isnt "good", well, "Good?"

Philosophically 3 and 4 are the same shot. Realistically however, that tournament is called differently by everyone who participates in it. I have never been in a crown yet but I realize from the sidelines that noone wants to be eliminated from crown tourney by even a remotely questionable shot. People call harder when in that tournament. Therefore you should have a scale for 4 in your training knowing full well that crown tourney exists and you should prepare for it.

Philosophically 3 and 4 are the same shot. Realistically however, that tournament is called differently by everyone who participates in it. I have never been in a crown yet but I realize from the sidelines that noone wants to be eliminated from crown tourney by even a remotely questionable shot. People call harder when in that tournament.

And therein lies the issue that I see. If someone is "up there" in accepting to begin with, (not ridiculously up there, but well up there) and suddenly jacks it up two notches in Crown..

I'd much prefer to see Crown fought at the same level as all the other tournaments, rather than have some (possibly unwarranted) view that it is a game for ONLY the heavies of heavy hitters, and those most able to absorb punishment.

Maeryk wrote:

Philosophically 3 and 4 are the same shot. Realistically however, that tournament is called differently by everyone who participates in it. I have never been in a crown yet but I realize from the sidelines that noone wants to be eliminated from crown tourney by even a remotely questionable shot. People call harder when in that tournament.

And therein lies the issue that I see. If someone is "up there" in accepting to begin with, (not ridiculously up there, but well up there) and suddenly jacks it up two notches in Crown..

I'd much prefer to see Crown fought at the same level as all the other tournaments, rather than have some (possibly unwarranted) view that it is a game for ONLY the heavies of heavy hitters, and those most able to absorb punishment.

I agree .. but the fact remains that people wont call it that way. They get hyped up, ready to roll, adrenaline flowing ... with that as the reality I dont think it will ever be called like a standard tourney.

As a side note: Crown is my favorite event to attend. Its a relatively small event with the greatest fighting on the planet.

There's no doubt that adrenaline and vanity can get the better of people in a high pressure tourney. Having a concious and intentional separate calibration level just adds an extra factor to it. It does your reputation more good to consider blows in a tourney carefully, and in cases of doubt take something lighter than you might otherwise to compensate for how that pressure might be changing your judgement.
Just because other people get thicker depending on what's at stake or who hit them doesn't mean you should.

Do people really feel taking harder blows in crown that at other times is acceptable behavior? I find that disturbing.


Gaston
"Good enough for crown but I'd never take that blow in practice."

hey bro, take your giant wide angled brush and quit talking about that which you admit to knowing nothing about. i have, indeed, fought ina couple of crown lists. i have never adjusted my fight for any list no matter if it were a crown or a tiny secluded demo. i know most of the worlds best fighters and i know that they also act the same. so do me a favor and keep your armchair quartebacking opinions to yourself.

folks its pretty simple. good is good and bs is bs. the people that cause problems in this sport are the "light but clean" and the little sissy contact wrist-flicky types. nobody from the side of the field should ever speak and the "gallery" should go back to socializing. let the fighters fight and if it wasnt you that was hit keep your trap shut.

no wonder we have people in charge of fighting that make rules based on stupid assed what if situations.

logan

CathalFinnObriain wrote:

Maeryk wrote:

2: you got it there (proper angle, shot was open, etc) but didnt have enough sufficient force for me to call it.
3: I would call that blow in a tourney (shot was open, nothing blocked or skipped, had sufficient force)
4: I would call that in Crown

I understand the distinction between 2 and 3.

But isnt the distinction between 3 and 4 dishonest and unfair to the game we are supposed to be playing?

Isnt "good", well, "Good?"

Philosophically 3 and 4 are the same shot. Realistically however, that tournament is called differently by everyone who participates in it. I have never been in a crown yet but I realize from the sidelines that noone wants to be eliminated from crown tourney by even a remotely questionable shot. People call harder when in that tournament. Therefore you should have a scale for 4 in your training knowing full well that crown tourney exists and you should prepare for it.

folks its pretty simple. good is good and bs is bs. the people that cause problems in this sport are the "light but clean" and the little sissy contact wrist-flicky types. nobody from the side of the field should ever speak and the "gallery" should go back to socializing. let the fighters fight and if it wasnt you that was hit keep your trap shut.

Yadda yadda hurf blurf glurf.

Thanks Logan. Now we know how you do it. I have heard, more than enough times, however, that "THat's okay for now.. but it won't work in Crown".

And thats while fighting. So kindly keep YOUR broad brush "let the big boys play and get outta my face" crap to yourself, as well.

I realize fully that there is a "difference" in crown level. Not for all.. but probably for most. Because the prize is SO MUCH BIGGER.. face it.. it's a life change for a YEAR.. and thats FINE.

I'd much rather see _all_ tourneys fought at that level than have that one go "up" a notch or three. Which was my point.

No one accused you of doing it.

hey maeryk you little toad, the comment was specifically "Realistically however, that tournament is called differently by everyone who participates in it."

so yes, i along with every other fighter that has ever fought in a crown list, was accused of doing it. so dont yadda yadda me you mouthy little ass. it was said and it was wrong. dude, pick your battles a little better and dont pipe up when youre wrong. if youve heard people say shit like "its ok here but not in crown" what on earth does that have to do with men that compete in crown lists? have you ever heard someone say "yes, in all other lists but here we are at crown and no i wont take this"? of course not. stop with your pathetic excuses already.

for christs sake man do you think serving as king changes your life? it doesnt, it does change your bank account and your willingness to tolerate the low end sca drivel......

Maeryk wrote:

folks its pretty simple. good is good and bs is bs. the people that cause problems in this sport are the "light but clean" and the little sissy contact wrist-flicky types. nobody from the side of the field should ever speak and the "gallery" should go back to socializing. let the fighters fight and if it wasnt you that was hit keep your trap shut.

Yadda yadda hurf blurf glurf.

Thanks Logan. Now we know how you do it. I have heard, more than enough times, however, that "THat's okay for now.. but it won't work in Crown".

And thats while fighting. So kindly keep YOUR broad brush "let the big boys play and get outta my face" crap to yourself, as well.

I realize fully that there is a "difference" in crown level. Not for all.. but probably for most. Because the prize is SO MUCH BIGGER.. face it.. it's a life change for a YEAR.. and thats FINE.

I'd much rather see _all_ tourneys fought at that level than have that one go "up" a notch or three. Which was my point.

No one accused you of doing it.

Duke Logan for Emperor of the SCA...

Gaston de Vieuxchamps wrote:Do people really feel taking harder blows in crown that at other times is acceptable behavior? I find that disturbing.


Gaston
"Good enough for crown but I'd never take that blow in practice."

As do I and all men of honour I am sure.

I have a question. Have either of you fought in a crown tournament? It's a simple question with no implied statements attached. Having been in a few now, the absolute LAST thing I want is there to be is any doubt or question about any blow I give or take. When I was defeated by Sir Malcolm (now his Grace) in the finals of his first victorious crown, it gives me a tremendous amount of pride to say that there was no question about any of the fights. There was no discussion by the marshals, the gallery or anyone (as far as I know any way.) We fought hard. We fought with fire and passion and everything that makes this sport great and that day was his. In fact, when the final blow was struck, he asked me what I felt about a blow I threw at him. I told him that if he has to ask, it wasn't there. Don't worry about it. Congratulations your highness. I guess what I'm getting at is that if you have not been there, any speculations about the expectations involved in that particular moment are just that speculations. Mine is a path of "no questions." I throw so there is no question and I take if there's no question. That never changes. I think the difference is that at practice I don't care if I win. I'm not there to win. I'm there to work on things and improve myself so when tournament time comes about I then fight with one goal in mind...to win.

Can this silly thread die already?

Havoc

Actually is was pretty good until things got personal and the name calling started. But that's pretty par for the AA.

Robert P. Norwalt wrote:Actually is was pretty good until things got personal and the name calling started. But that's pretty par for the AA.

Took two pages. That's actually not too bad.

@ Duke Logan - I understand that you dislike some of the rule changes but why the acid directed at the SEM? You know as well as anyone else that the man has the impossible job - on one hand the people say "he's an ineffective idiot if the rules aren't revised from the 3 year old crap we have now" and on the other hand "he's a overreacting ass for changing the rules about X,Y, or Z."

in all fairness alexander youre right. the job is impossible and it is like any other political office. half the people will hate what you do no matter what that is. its just this time it effects me and has me ready to figth it. just i should cut him some more slack than i have. im just frustrated at the complete lack of reasoning behind some of the changes and, like a lot of people, feel powerless to do anything. i sure would like a crack at the job though.

regards
logan

Alexander wrote:
@ Duke Logan - I understand that you dislike some of the rule changes but why the acid directed at the SEM? You know as well as anyone else that the man has the impossible job - on one hand the people say "he's an ineffective idiot if the rules aren't revised from the 3 year old crap we have now" and on the other hand "he's a overreacting ass for changing the rules about X,Y, or Z."

dukelogan wrote:for christs sake man do you think serving as king changes your life? it doesnt, it does change your bank account and your willingness to tolerate the low end sca drivel......

awesome, you should write sig lines for a living.

what on earth does that have to do with men that compete in crown lists?

WEll, does the fact that I have heard it from people who _have_ competed in Crowns carry any weight? Or do you know the hearts and minds of every SCA fighter?

Jesus you can be a pompous ass at times. If you'd get your dander down long enough to listen to what I said, you'd realize that the way you espouse, "good is good, at all times" is the way I would prefer to see it across the board.

Perhaps being Prince and King for a year didn't alter your life at all for that year (Which is what I said), but to others I have spoken to, it most certainly did. Not irrepairable, but for the duration of the reign.

perhaps the "yadda yadda" was a bit much, and for that I apologize, but like every other post it rapidly read like "You all hit like nancy girls, leave this to the big boys, and if you don't fight, shut it". Which really isn't helpful to anyone.

What you have heard some folks say, Maeryk, is definetly part of the problem.

Its the whole fluctuating acceptance levels from folks that cause more than half the problems. Pick a level you want and stick to it, the tournament your fighting in shouldnt come into the equation.

Now what they are most likely saying, and its all how you look at it, is this.

The big guns that fight in Crown, normally fight at a consistant higher calibration level than what your throwing at. So if thats where you want to be, you need to pick up your power. Whether they change their own acceptance level is up to them. But realize, that the folks who fight in Crowns consistantly, usually play a different style game, than the regular shire fighter practice. They hit and take harder.

And well for me, its a more appropriate style of game. I cant stand the little touch kill game, and try to help and work on my own and others to not give in to it. Play by the rules and take a good solid shot, and deliver the same.

I only should worry about my own calibration. I try and keep it the same for every single fight. Every fight I do should be "Crown".

"Train as you fight," so to speak.

That being said I LOVE it when people have a high calibration. I can just let go and go for it with gusto and not worry about injuring them as much. It is wonderful.

So in many ways I would invite rhinos to fight and praise them before I enjoy a fight with a "negotiator/accusor".

Bring me all the rhinos any day of the week over the negotiators/accusors.

The rhino might be smearing their own honor, maybe. But they aren't hurting my honor one bit and giving me a good fight.

If you can't find someone who is so skilled that you can't win against them, a "high calibration" fellow is a close second. You'll be able to practice your best game against them until you lose, in both cases. And there is good training and exercise in that.

The negotiator/accusor is definately smearing MY honor, with intent. And I don't like that.

dukelogan wrote:...do you think serving as king changes your life? it doesnt, it does change your bank account and your willingness to tolerate the low end sca drivel......

That needs to be in the rules of the list for Crown!

I'll second the vote for Duke Logan for Emperor of the SCA....but if his bank account takes a hit for Crown, I fear what the cost would be for Emperor of the SCA.

well the yadda yadda was a bit much and uncalled for. i dont do well with people trivializing me and that is what got me in a twist. so now that we have that out of the way.

my remarks were brought on because of the statement that crown lists alter every fighters acknowledgment. that is an untruth and it implies something i find distasteful.

and i too have heard people say that maeryk and its wrong. plain and simple. its just as bad as the guy who takes a ligth shot from a girl. it tarnishes the purity of our sport. hell, when i was a newer fighter it was actually suggested to me that i needed to up my calibration 20% or so if i planned on fighting in crown. man that irked me pretty bad but i had only been playing for two years at the time. i fought in the next two crowns and refused to change anything about the way i fought. i won the next two. many years later i won a few more and i have kept my calibration consistant.

in all fairness to my fellow atlantians i have not seen too much of an increase in crown lists. at least thats my perception. i tend to swing stout blows and with rare exceptions have i ever felt the need to crank it up a bit in crown or any other tourney.

for those out there that think crown lists (or any lists) require a different calibration than any other time i would ask that you examine your mindset and adjust it.

and i have no problem, personally, with those that hit like nancy girls. as long as they dont bitch when its called light. as for those that dont fight, well its like being at the movies. please keep your conversations to a whisper and your cell phones on vibrate.

regards
logan

Maeryk wrote:

what on earth does that have to do with men that compete in crown lists?

WEll, does the fact that I have heard it from people who _have_ competed in Crowns carry any weight? Or do you know the hearts and minds of every SCA fighter?

Jesus you can be a pompous ass at times. If you'd get your dander down long enough to listen to what I said, you'd realize that the way you espouse, "good is good, at all times" is the way I would prefer to see it across the board.

Perhaps being Prince and King for a year didn't alter your life at all for that year (Which is what I said), but to others I have spoken to, it most certainly did. Not irrepairable, but for the duration of the reign.

perhaps the "yadda yadda" was a bit much, and for that I apologize, but like every other post it rapidly read like "You all hit like nancy girls, leave this to the big boys, and if you don't fight, shut it". Which really isn't helpful to anyone.

Having fought in a few crowns, I don't think it's calibration that goes up so much as a requirement for better technique. Calibration, I suppose, does rise a bit because of that, but what it boils down to is that sloppy technique won't get it done at Crown. It might get you a bit of the way, and sometimes even a lot of the way, but it won't get you all the way. For instance, a shot that might have landed and been counted good suddenly doesn't land good because the target was moved an inch or two closer to the center of rotation, thereby robbing the sword of the necessary power. Thus it looks like "calibration rising" when it's really not.

I will stipulate that this only happens when two people are fighting Crown that are serious about Crown, as opposed to the people who are just entering Crown because they can.

Regards,

Jonathan Blackbow

You know, I may not be a great fighter but I have fought in a lot of coronet and crown lists. I really don't think most people I know feel that the shots have to be a step above a normal tourney. I know I don't. What may happen, very unintentionally, is that some shots aren't felt due to increases in adrenaline and therefore a shot must hit a tad bit more exact. Although I think that's a rarity as well. I don't know anyone who would want to win a crown that people felt they "stole", and because of this, I would say, at crown, most would prefer the take lighter, hit hard and clean philosophy.

Kelwin

I dont have a problem with the fighter I'm against demands perfect technique to acknowledge a blow. That's how the top guys around here do it and I'm learning to give them what they need. As long as the guy I'm up against has no problems with me expecting the same quality from them. if you wanna fight at that level then that's awesome. IMO it just hones your own edge. To me it's not about winning, it's about fighting well, with honor.

It really sounds to me like there's a good possibility that;

What was said:I'll take that shot since this is practice but I wouldn't take it at crown.

What was heard:That shot was light and I'll let you have it since this is practice but you have to hit WAY the hell harder at crown.

What was meant:That shot wasn't as clean as it could be and I'm mentioning it to you so that you can pay attention in the future and try to land your blows cleaner as niether I nor anyone else would take that in a tournament but I will take it for now since this is practice and it was fairly close to good.

blackbow wrote:A shot that might have landed and been counted good suddenly doesn't land good because the target was moved an inch or two closer to the center of rotation, thereby robbing the sword of the necessary power. Thus it looks like "calibration rising" when it's really not.

That concept is rarely understood and has caused me grief before.

The power just evaporated when I was on the "inside" of people's range, and some got grumpy sometimes.

I'm glad people are thinking about the mechanics of the center of rotation. If you avoid the "sweet spot" the power diminishes quite a bit. That's just simple physics, but it comes off sometimes as "calibration issues".

But oddly enough I didn't have any problems at West Crown or Pennsic or other major events.

I think it's true that at Crown people want to make sure that there is absolutely no question on who won. Nobody wants to take the crown with even theoretically soiled hands. In many ways I think people took LIGHTER at West Crown than they would normally, because their honor was worth more than the crown, and they allowed me to say "Don't take that please" rather than even have a hint that they didn't accept a shot.

Ratslayer wrote:You know, I may not be a great fighter but I have fought in a lot of coronet and crown lists. I really don't think most people I know feel that the shots have to be a step above a normal tourney. I know I don't. What may happen, very unintentionally, is that some shots aren't felt due to increases in adrenaline and therefore a shot must hit a tad bit more exact. Although I think that's a rarity as well. I don't know anyone who would want to win a crown that people felt they "stole", and because of this, I would say, at crown, most would prefer the take lighter, hit hard and clean philosophy.

Kelwin

Exactly. I'll go ya one better. I tend to take my calibration down a notch at crown. Why? Because I know myself. Normally, I'm a very cool, controlled fighter. I rarely get amped or overly excited. But sometimes at Crown I get a little over the top. To compensate, I tell myself to bring my acceptance level down just a little so I don't accidentally rob someone of a victory.

The way I figure it, I'm probably taking the same weight of shot, it's just that I'm compensating for the perception changes brought on by the adrenaline rush.

Just the way I am - don't know 'bout anyone else.

[quote="dukelogan"]
its just as bad as the guy who takes a light shot from a girl. it tarnishes the purity of our sport.

***I don't feel that way at all. Some girls, lady's, woman, and a few of the "leprechaun" fellers can't hit inside my calibration when I'm "stoked". So I say to them, "let me feel your "killer" shot", and by this I am trying to help them out if I can? I don't feel this tarnishes or cheapens anything. I think it makes it so some 70lb., girl can get the trill of a kill now and then. And I think they deserve it, especially if they "get me first". It's a quasi sport, but we don't have fair "divisions", so it's the thickest biggest, most talented, sometimes going up against folks way smaller, way weaker, and even way slower. So why would that hurt the purity of a Tourney?

Robert P. Norwalt wrote:

dukelogan wrote: its just as bad as the guy who takes a light shot from a girl. it tarnishes the purity of our sport.

***I don't feel that way at all. Some girls, lady's, woman, and a few of the "leprechaun" fellers can't hit inside my calibration when I'm "stoked". So I say to them, "let me feel your "killer" shot", and by this I am trying to help them out if I can? I don't feel this tarnishes or cheapens anything. I think it makes it so some 70lb., girl can get the trill of a kill now and then. And I think they deserve it, especially if they "get me first". It's a quasi sport, but we don't have fair "divisions", so it's the thickest biggest, most talented, sometimes going up against folks way smaller, way weaker, and even way slower. So why would that hurt the purity of a Tourney?

Maybe that would be the case if a "killer" shot was based on upper body strength, however with good mechanics, most anyone can produce a decent amount of power. That being the case, if you take "light" so the poor little girl can feel the "thrill of a kill" you are doing her a disservice. Next time maybe you should help with her technique and teach her how to harness her power. Ever met Sir Ismenia? She's not a very big lady but she can certainly produce a good solid shot because she's got great technique.

Kelwin (sorry, you hit one of my hot buttons)

Ratslayer wrote:

Robert P. Norwalt wrote:

dukelogan wrote: its just as bad as the guy who takes a light shot from a girl. it tarnishes the purity of our sport.

***I don't feel that way at all. Some girls, lady's, woman, and a few of the "leprechaun" fellers can't hit inside my calibration when I'm "stoked". So I say to them, "let me feel your "killer" shot", and by this I am trying to help them out if I can? I don't feel this tarnishes or cheapens anything. I think it makes it so some 70lb., girl can get the trill of a kill now and then. And I think they deserve it, especially if they "get me first". It's a quasi sport, but we don't have fair "divisions", so it's the thickest biggest, most talented, sometimes going up against folks way smaller, way weaker, and even way slower. So why would that hurt the purity of a Tourney?

Maybe that would be the case if a "killer" shot was based on upper body strength, however with good mechanics, most anyone can produce a decent amount of power. That being the case, if you take "light" so the poor little girl can feel the "thrill of a kill" you are doing her a disservice. Next time maybe you should help with her technique and teach her how to harness her power. Ever met Sir Ismenia? She's not a very big lady but she can certainly produce a good solid shot because she's got great technique.

Kelwin (sorry, you hit one of my hot buttons)

Or Sir Bolverek. Small woman but can throw tonnage up to most anyone's happy place.

it cheapens it because it allows you to insult someone and serve them an injustice. its like this insanity that is "upwards" sports. this blight was conjured up at some church in which they bought the notion that everyone has a right to be a winner. hell no. only those that can do certain things have the opportunity to win. when you say "sure ill take that, youre just a little girl" you do nothing but an injustice to that person for accepting, and rewarding, failure.

do i expect a "little girl" to hit me as hard as "duke gigantor"? no. but i expect her to hit me with a good shot. anything she can throw beyond that is gravy and all but it has no bearing on whether i take her shot or not. good is good no matter who throws it or when.

now here is the problem in real terms robert. you reward the "little girl" for her substandard shot because you think she needs your help to make her feel good (the kill thrill mentality). so she is led to believe that her tap shot is a good one and she is never given the opportunity to actually learn to throw a true "telling" blow. then she shows up all smiles at a tourney and she faces me. she throws her little tap shot and i miss the block. she pauses, and i blast her (not an excessive blow but i bet i hit her a whole lot harder than you do based on your opinion that she needs to be given special considerations). now she thinks im a cheater for not taking her tap shot that you always take from her, and she thinks im a thug for hitting her with a solid blow. poor girl, all confused because someone thought she was too weak too frail too needy for good feelings and too dumb to understand the game.

now look at it from my side. i would take her and enforce the fact that this is a contact sport. i would work with her to teach her how to throw powerful blows, at least as much as she can throw them. if she simply can not throw enough power i might look at a different role. maybe a spear? maybe a bow (with my training she would only shoot face grilles and archers)? maybe a harp? who knows, something would make her happy if she cant fight equally. and thats the key. she must be at least my equal before she has earned the right to step on our field. there is always a stick that says "you must be this tall to ride this ride". sometimes you have to explain to them that they just arent big enough. but even children understand that, in time, they can ride that ride.

tell them the truth, they arent as weak as our grandfathers thougth they were.

regards
logan

ps i have a female squire and my lady is a fighter, so anyone that wants to complain about what i think can speak with them.

Robert P. Norwalt wrote:

dukelogan wrote: its just as bad as the guy who takes a light shot from a girl. it tarnishes the purity of our sport.

***I don't feel that way at all. Some girls, lady's, woman, and a few of the "leprechaun" fellers can't hit inside my calibration when I'm "stoked". So I say to them, "let me feel your "killer" shot", and by this I am trying to help them out if I can? I don't feel this tarnishes or cheapens anything. I think it makes it so some 70lb., girl can get the trill of a kill now and then. And I think they deserve it, especially if they "get me first". It's a quasi sport, but we don't have fair "divisions", so it's the thickest biggest, most talented, sometimes going up against folks way smaller, way weaker, and even way slower. So why would that hurt the purity of a Tourney?

[quote="Ratslayer"]Maybe that would be the case if a "killer" shot was based on upper body strength, however with good mechanics, most anyone can produce a decent amount of power.

*** That was my point. MOST anyone one, can but some CANNOT.

That being the case, if you take "light" so the poor little girl can feel the "thrill of a kill" you are doing her a disservice.

*** I never said I did. Never have once. I never did a disservice.

Next time maybe you should help with her technique and teach her how to harness her power.

*** Right. But in the meantime?

dukelogan wrote:ps i have a female squire and my lady is a fighter, so anyone that wants to complain about what i think can speak with them.

I'm a lady fighter and I say Amen to all that you said Logan. I don't like to be patronized and that is just what you do if you take a light shot to give "the little girl" the thrill of the kill even though the shot isn't really a killing blow. I would be so pissed if someone did this to me. How would I ever get better? Thank goodness most fighters in Artemisia wouldn't ever dream of doing this.

One of the frustration that I have experienced when I've fought with some of the other women fighters in the women only tourney's is that they do expect you to take a lighter shot. I blame the people who have coddled these fighters and taught them that they don't have to produce the same level of a shot as a man to get the same result. It's just bullshit. I am a fighter who happens to be a woman, not a woman fighter. If you can't take the heat, then don't put on the armor. Like I said, hot button.

Kelwin

Robert P. Norwalt wrote:

Ratslayer wrote:Maybe that would be the case if a "killer" shot was based on upper body strength, however with good mechanics, most anyone can produce a decent amount of power.

*** That was my point. MOST anyone one, can but some CANNOT.

That being the case, if you take "light" so the poor little girl can feel the "thrill of a kill" you are doing her a disservice.

*** I never said I did. Never have once. I never did a disservice.

Next time maybe you should help with her technique and teach her how to harness her power.

*** Right. But in the meantime?

If they can't, then they are in the wrong sport. I'm sorry, if you can't do it, you can't do it. There are a lot of things I can't do. It sucks, but that's life.

As far as in the meantime comment? Tell them it isn't a good shot and move on. If it discourages them so they don't come back? Well I guess they don't have the warrior spirit.

Kelwin

dukelogan wrote:its just as bad as the guy who takes a ligth shot from a girl.

I am a girl who would not take light shots from other girls when I was fighting and one took very great offense. After a particular fight I went up to her and said that I was sorry the fight had lasted so long because she was clearly the better fighter, but that her shots had all been too light, right up 'til the last one (which in my mind was actually still kinda light, but I was too damn tired to keep my arms up anymore and I kept that thought to myself). She looked at me coldly and said that perhaps I should get my armour checked because parts of it were clearly causing numbness. I walked away rather than further challenge her, but I was angry for a long time about it. Maybe I still am.

Maybe too many men like you describe, Logan, were taking her tappy but well-aimed shots because she was better than the average woman in her area and they wanted to encourage her in some misguided way, I don't know. All I know is that I got very used to fighting at a particular calibration in the Southern Region of the East Kingdom, and wasn't going to take anything that wasn't landed with authority. People like Duke Ron and Duke Darius and Sir Stephan were the types of fighters I measured blow calibration by.

I came away from that confrontation actually feeling GUILTY for not taking her tappy shots. Guilty. That's eff'ed up, IMO.

-Tasha

[quote="dukelogan"]
now here is the problem in real terms robert. you reward the "little girl" for her substandard shot because you think she needs your help to make her feel good (the kill thrill mentality). so she is led to believe that her tap shot is a good one and she is never given the opportunity to actually learn to throw a true "telling" blow.

*** I see. That makes good since. So from now on, I'll say,... Okay, give me your killer. And they do and it sucks ass. So then I say, sorry but you're gonna have to throw one of these, to get a solid kill?

then she shows up all smiles at a tourney and she faces me. she throws her little tap shot and i miss the block. she pauses, and i blast her (not an excessive blow but i bet i hit her a whole lot harder than you,....

*** Ummm no. No matter how they hit, I always hit the same. But I still see what your getting at.

"...do based on your opinion that she needs to be given special considerations). now she thinks im a cheater for not taking her tap shot that you always take from her, and she thinks im a thug for hitting her with a solid blow. poor girl, all confused because someone thought she was too weak too frail too needy for good feelings and too dumb to understand the game.

*** Well. No matter who knows who, who knows who, who's hit's like a ton of bricks, I still come across little one's that I KNOW, can't hit that hard no matter WHAT technique they are tought. I guess I feel sorry for them, and don't want to come off like a jack ass, (no, I'm not calling you a jack-ass) so I tried to help them out? Maybe I was misguided?

now look at it from my side. i would take her and enforce the fact that this is a contact sport. i would work with her to teach her how to throw powerful blows, at least as much as she can throw them. if she simply can not throw enough power i might look at a different role. maybe a spear? maybe a bow (with my training she would only shoot face grilles and archers)? maybe a harp? who knows, something would make her happy if she cant fight equally. and thats the key.

*** I concider that a good approach, and will think long and hard about this?

tell them the truth, they arent as weak as our grandfathers thougth they were.

Thanks
Respectfully

Robert