SCA sword position for power generation and defense

[Jess]

To combat difficulties generating sufficient power, I started using a sword position similar to Bellatrix style as part of my stance. My sword hilt is on my shoulder, my sword angled behind my back, my elbow is back and the muscle along my shoulder is tight. This seems to help significantly.

But now I am trying to work on my defense. I have great difficulty with my shield work. In some respects this is totally unrelated to the sword position (when I used a more forward position, I still could not block worth a darn) but the new sword position does seem to leave my off side head more open. I used a round for years without progress and switched to a heater. I think I am better off but still have not figured out how to block with it.

I think part of it is difficulty recognizing what my opponent is throwing early enough to do anything about it, and part of it is difficulty actually figuring out how to move to block the shot. Any advice for exercises for learning to block? While pain is motivating, it has not been helpful.

I have considered more active blocking with the sword, but this seems to necessitate I abandon the only position from which I have been able to consistently throw a good blow. I can do a high hanging guard (I can throw a good moulinet or face thrust from that, but that's it) or maybe pull the sword hilt forward off the shoulder (exposing the arm) and angling the blade toward my shield. I can't throw anything good from there, but might be able to land a second solid blow after the first light one.

For those fighters lacking in mass or concerned about power generation, what sword position do you use as part of your stance? If you use Bellatrix, how do you handle the off side shots?

Jesmond

[Oswyn_de_Wulferton]

Not sure if I qualify as lacking in mass (I am skinny, but 6'5"), I use something quite similar to an Oldcastle guard. With a heater, what really helps for me is to look over the top of the shield, instead of around the point. The point should be at about 2 o'clock, and the shield should be pointing in that direction as a whole. I have also found that swinging from such a far point (sword for me hangs about right behind my ear, almost straight down my back) that it tends to generate an amazing amount of speed and power (especially when I use ALL my body). The tradeoff that I have found is that it tends to telegraph a bit, since the sword has more to go.

I also use a really light stick. The rattan I use for swords meets the 1 1/4" rule with strapping and duct tape, resulting in a really light sword. I find that I can generate more speed, and therefore more power, than I can with a heavy sword. Part of it might be that I started by using light sticks, so my power generation was built around that, but I think part of it is that in a force equation, mass and acceleration are equal contributors. I think I can accelerate a stick more with a light stick, than the mass can contribute from a heavier sword.

[audax]

Greetings Jess,

One problem you may have is that you have not developed the field of vision that you need to pick up your opponents shots. Get with someone you trust and get them to throw slow shots at you, especially to areas you are having trouble blocking. Do this early in your practice times. Pay attention to where you pick them up in your peripheral vision. Work on blocking these shots without over compensating and exposing yourself. Use economy of motion to conserve energy and footwork to keep yourself well positioned. As you get better at this, increase the speed with which your partner throws the shots.The idea is to build muscle memory while fresh with slow and controlled work that with practice will become second nature and automatic even at speed. You don't have to practice full speed all the time. In fact I think it to be counter-productive.

Regarding your power generation issues, the key to the Bellatrix style is hip rotation, not keeping the sword cocked back. With the correct technique, you can throw a telling blow with only a few inches of wind up space. Rather like a reverse punch in karate. Power is located in your core, not your arm, not your shoulder, not the sword itself. Using a lighter stick may appear to be helpful, but with less mass in the stick, it makes it harder to get shots to stick into your opponent and then your just playing stick tag. Mass x velocity and all that rot. Practice using your core and hip to generate the power of the blow. Let your shoulder, arm and sword kind of "float" into the target. Don't force it, just relax into it. Feel the movement in your abs and hips. Then remember that feeling when you fight. Don't think about it, just feel it.

Pick one of these things to work on per practice. Don't overwhelm your ability to assimilate knew info.

I hope this is of help to you.

Regards,

audax

P.S. Here is a link to a discussion about sword construction: http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... highlight=

[Jess]

Oswyn,
I recently started using a light(er) sword and I think that really helps, especially with sticking off-side blows, flat snaps, and moulinets. I think I am faster and that pays off too. Of course, with less mass now the technique has to be right as I am less capable of successfully clubbing with it. But I never could really do that before. With the exception of short sticking anyway.

I will give your shield position a try.
***the shield should be pointing in that direction as a whole. ***
What do you mean by this?

Audax,
What is your sword position as part of your stance? What shield position do you use at rest in stance? Are you big?
Thank you for your post.

Jesmond

[blackbow]

Jess:

Just reading your messages I'll bet a dollar you're generating power with your arm and not your hips, thighs, etc. PM me if you want to know how to fix that.

Regards

Jonathan Blackbow

Oswyn,
I recently started using a light(er) sword and I think that really helps, especially with sticking off-side blows, flat snaps, and moulinets. I think I am faster and that pays off too. Of course, with less mass now the technique has to be right as I am less capable of successfully clubbing with it. But I never could really do that before. With the exception of short sticking anyway.

I will give your shield position a try.
***the shield should be pointing in that direction as a whole. ***
What do you mean by this?

Audax,
What is your sword position as part of your stance? What shield position do you use at rest in stance? Are you big?
Thank you for your post.

Jesmond

[Oswyn_de_Wulferton]

Part of the reason I like Oldcastle is that by positioning my body the way I do, I have to generate power, unless I want to keep my body at a extremely wierd angle. Part of your problem may be your footwork, and how your feet are positioned. Oldcastle forces you to keep your feet at a wierd angle, that takes some work getting used to, but allows and forces you to generate a lot of power, due to how your body is positioned.

The part about my shield pointing this way, is that my shield is a bit more closed than what Duke Oldcastle would call for. If you were looking at my opponent from the left corner of my shield (essentially standing at my left shoulder), my shield would be angled at about 2 o'clock (to the right of my opponent). I hope this helps just a bit. You might also want to read Duke Gryth's Oldcastle Manual

Using a lighter sword will make sure you have better technique, but when you are using good technique, I find my sword arm gets tired a lot slower than someone with a club (and having the extra speed never hurts with this style too). One of the only problems I have had was at wars, when I found myself "desperation swinging" out of position, I couldnt get enough power off of it, since my feet were completely out of whack, and I couldnt use my body to develop enough power. Someone with a club might have been able to use their club without the power.

[audax]

Audax,
What is your sword position as part of your stance? What shield position do you use at rest in stance? Are you big?
Thank you for your post.

Jesmond

I am about 5'8", 190 pounds, so bigger than the average woman but not huge by SCA standards. (not sure if it is clear to you that I am female). I am really strong but I do not use my arm to generate power. All that flows from my core and my hips. When I try to use my arm to generate power, my elbow pays a price and I'd rather not be crippled in my old age. My philosophy is that the arm simply acts as the guidance system for the sword, with the core generating power.

I mostly fight great sword/polearm but when I fight sword and sheild, I use a center grip heater. I dislike strapped heaters for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is it seems counter-intuitive to fight on foot with a sheild set up for fighting on horseback. YMMV. I keep my sword cocked back, chambered as it were, most of the time. However there are times when I keep my fist by my head to block and throw "jab shots". It's like throwing a punch but you let your wrist break in whatver direction you want the shot to go at the last second. I get quite a few one shots with that.

I am all about helping other female fighters so if I can be of any help feel free to ask. My philosophy is a little different than some folks but it works for me.

Regards,

audax

[Vitus von Atzinger]

Come back to our practice. Do what I say.

[Konstantin the Red]

Jess, what Audax said and what Vitus probably will also say; it is amazing how much power a little forward wiggle of your swordside pelvic crest will translate into at the end of a sword. A small rotation of your torso translates to big whack out at the far end.

A Bellatrix power snap starts at your ankles. It is exactly like throwing a karate reverse punch except you have a stick in your mitt (and you don't turn your fist over except in hitting your opponent's other side) whose effect is to change the linear strike of a reverse punch to a circular strike as its lever arm comes around.

Now let's take the whole thing one step at a time. Your sword is couched at your shoulder -- I keep my blade horizontal for better speed of strike and less cue time to the opponent -- push off with your sword-side ankle just a little bit. Now try and hit your man with your swordside knee. Now try and hit him with your swordside hip, which motion is pretty easy to feel and your hip will move three to five inches forward. Now try and hit him with your swordside shoulder. Now try and hit him with that elbow. Your arm uncoils at this point and your sword likewise. Try and hit him with your knuckles. As you do that, your sword snaps out and whacks him wherever you've drawn a line through with your knuckles -- temple, jaw, neck, leg -- I'm assuming there's a pretty fair expanse of shield between these parts.

Every body part of the above process may be separately drilled -- even the knee can go back and forth, and the hip and anything above it are all really free to move back and forth. The most obvious and by a small margin the most important and powerful movement will be the swing-forward of your swordside hip. Just start low and work higher one joint at a time, and have these various bits go back and forth 7 reps each, from a karate-type stance, shield foot forward and sword foot a couple feet back. 7 reps knee, 7 reps knee + hip, 7 reps knee + hip + shoulder, and so on until you've got all the technique going.

Doing these motions in reverse will also help speed your recovery after throwing your blow, which will in its turn speed two-shotting and three-shotting. Again, you'll mostly notice the motion of the hip.

Another vitally important series of exercises will be anything that really exercises your sense of balance: one-footed stands, and walking a straight line on the balls of your feet with your heels being placed over the instep of the preceding foot. Balance aids power, and being able to keep balance means you're not caught on the wrong foot.

[Adamo]

I fight a kinda half-open style I guess. I started out with my sword resting on my shoulder as you described, except with the sword more horizontal. Now, I hold it a few inches up and a few inches forward. It helps me block offside shots simply by being in the way, and I haven't noticed any huge reduction in power generation (I'm 130 lbs). Also I feel that keeping the sword there gives me more options with throwing offside shots. I hope that's helpful.
As for the shield, my heater is of the size that I can block most leg shots by simply bending my knees and most onside head shots are blocked with the top right corner of my shield. If it's a higher shot, I push the shield up. If it's a scorpion wrap thing, you have to twist and move quite a bit though.

[Ewan]

Jess,

If I may, I would suggest you watch the video found at this link:
http://www.antirfighters.com/Video%20Gallery.htm

Duke Thorin

(right click save as will probably work best)

HG is a smaller guy and his sword starts way back. Most importantly look at his shield position, paying special attention to the angle of the leading corner.
As a fighter who transitioned from a very closed, square defense that used a lot of sword blocks to a much more "Duke Paul/Thorin - Oldcastle style" I can only guess that your shield leading edge is too square and too close to your body. If that is the case, try pushing the leading corner of your shield out towards your opponent and up a bit. Remember to look over the back corner of your shield.

oh, Do what Vitus says.

[paulb]

Jess,

A few points:

1. Although it is not the common practice, rhythmic slow work will help you in learning to track your opponent's movements and sword swings.

2. The important point of the guard position is to have your shoulder locked. If you like, you can raise your sword hand up, and move the tip of your sword forward and in front of your head, without releasing the shoulder lock.

3. Having the leading edge of your shield higher than the other, and looking over the angled top, is a good practice.

4. If you're advancing by initially stepping forward with your back foot, you're opening up your sword side for attacks.

Regards,

[FrauHirsch]

Some people stand with their back leg so far behind them, they can't twist their hips.

Blocking: I try to block most standard blows with my shield, however, I also use both active and passive blocks with my sword. I'm very short, so for some people, they'd not get many high shots unless fighting on their knees. To defend against high flat snaps, wraps and scorpion shots, I sometimes I bring my basket hilt over my head and let the blade hang down to the side or back of the head, elbow back, still in position. I sometimes bring my basket hilt forward, but though I block with the blade, I try to keep my basket hilt almost centered and not stuck out to far in front of me. From those positions, you should be able to use the same techniques to throw a good shot and should not have to reposition, the sword just makes a larger arc (don't try to flip it straight forward or you won't have the power.)

You should be able to throw a cross shot with your blade in front of you by pulling your hips in the opposite direction of a snap.
-J

[broinnfinn]

I probably qualify as small - I am 5'7", currently 170 lbs, but about 140 at my prime fighting weight. Girl, if that matters to you any.

I fight with a modified boxing stance - centergrip shield. I can connect a pretty stout shot with either foot forward - it just depends on the circumstances. It's just a matter of pushing the shot through the body - not so much putting the hip into it as using the center of my hips as a fulcrum for the force. There is less hip movement than imagined - in fact, the descriptions I hear for generating power through the hip usually result in exaggerated movement and wasted effort - although the description of the Bellatrix snap was one of the better I have heard. Hard to describe. Easier to show.

Either way, my sword hilt is down from the shoulder, fist about sternum height and almost centered in my resting stance. I tend to sword-block some, but not overly much. Note that this stance may be less effective with a strapped shield - the counterbalancing is different.

Broinnfinn