Boot camp 3 - “A Bridge Too Farâ€

[Stefan ap Llewelyn]

I attended BootCamp 3 last weekend and had a fantastic time.

A big thanks to everyone who organised and ran it and another big thanks to everyone who helped me out by lending me kit, giving advice, gently correctly my enthusiastic interpretation of the rules etc. Even though I seemed to keep making the same mistakes again and again no one ever seemed to get frustrated with me.

I got authorised (YAY!) and I even got hit so hard in the face that I had to crawl out of the combat to get some 'alone time' I enjoyed every minute of being there. I had to leave early on the Saturday evening which was the only down side

I did not know it was possible to be as good as some of those guys (and girls) are!


However I have a couple of questions on the principles of engagment:

I was told that if you make eye contact with an opponent you may attack them (or do the dead from behind thing) so is the same in the front line of a battle?

I mean I often had my head tucked behind my shield but got hit (IMHO fairly). Is anyone in the front line of a battle considered to be engagedable with anyone from the opponent's side?

If a person is charging through the line but does not look at you (they are too focused or are covering their faces for example) can you still hit them?

How do you handle making eye contact with someone who is wearing a narow visored helmet who has limitted peripheral vision? Are the rules the same?

Any advice greatfully received!

[InsaneIrish]

I was told that if you make eye contact with an opponent you may attack them (or do the dead from behind thing) so is the same in the front line of a battle?

Society requirements state, that you much have eye contact with your opponent before engaging/hitting them. HOWEVER, in a melee situation where 2 lines of combatants are engaged, EVERYONE in those lines are AUTOMATICALLY engaged with EVERYONE ELSE in those lines. Eye contact is not needed.

I mean I often had my head tucked behind my shield but got hit (IMHO fairly). Is anyone in the front line of a battle considered to be engagedable with anyone from the opponent's side?

See above:

If a person is charging through the line but does not look at you (they are too focused or are covering their faces for example) can you still hit them?

Yes. TECHNICALLY by them charging into your line, they MUCH look at the line, and in doing so, make eye contact. But since everyone in a line is considered engaged with everyone else in the opposing line, then eye contact is not necissarily needed.

Now, that being said. If you disengage with the opposing line and then RE engage you are required to make eye contact first.

Dis-engaging is determined by distance to your opponent. If you are fighting in a line, and your line backs up until your spears can not reach anyone, and the opposing side does not persue you (basically backing away into a safe area of no fighting) Then you are considered disengaged. To Re-engage you must make eye contact prior to you hitting another unit.

The same goes for single combat.

How do you handle making eye contact with someone who is wearing a narow visored helmet who has limitted peripheral vision? Are the rules the same?

Any advice greatfully received!

If you are within the front 45 degrees of an opponents vision, it is resonable to assume they can see you. If you are at greater than 45 degrees ie, 90 or more then you must get their attention prior to engagement. If you have ANY doubt about engagement, the best rule of thumb is to yell out and get their attention fully before swinging.

[Fearghus Macildubh]

Generaly speaking, the entire shieldwall/unit is considered engaged with its opposite number. that's how the spearman diagonally from you can kill you. by the same token, if someone charges into your shiledwall, they can be considered already engaged and thus fair game. The whole idea behind eye contact is to prevent someone from getting blasted from an opponent they were unaware of, thus getting injured. It's the same reason why we don't bash people from behind, even though this is a perfectly period practice.

[Skutai]

I was told that if you make eye contact with an opponent you may attack them (or do the dead from behind thing) so is the same in the front line of a battle?

Eye contact is a good way to engage someone, but it's not technically necessary. If your line is engaged with another line in a melee then you can strike anyone in the opposing line, whether they can see you or not.

I mean I often had my head tucked behind my shield but got hit (IMHO fairly). Is anyone in the front line of a battle considered to be engagedable with anyone from the opponent's side?

Pretty much.

If a person is charging through the line but does not look at you (they are too focused or are covering their faces for example) can you still hit them?

Yes. You can strike him once as he passes. In the SCA a charging person sometimes takes numerous hard hits to kill, though, so don't be surprised if the charger doesn't fall down right away.

How do you handle making eye contact with someone who is wearing a narow visored helmet who has limitted peripheral vision? Are the rules the same?

Yep.

The concept of acknowledgement is a lost art in some places. Ideally you would enter your opponent's field of view and make some sign that you are ready to fight. He would then nod his acknowledgement of your engagement, and then you fight.

It doesn't always happen that way.

[InsaneIrish]

pictures work better than words:

[Oswyn_de_Wulferton]

If a person is charging through the line but does not look at you (they are too focused or are covering their faces for example) can you still hit them?

Yes. You can strike him once as he passes. In the SCA a charging person sometimes takes numerous hard hits to kill, though, so don't be surprised if the charger doesn't fall down right away.

Having been one of those charging people who got hit more than once, it could be that there is no room to fall down. If I am going forward, and die, I pretty much cover up and go limp. If I was moving forward, I am essentially a dead-weight against your shield, until I can drop safely. So just because someone doesnt fall down immediately, it doesnt mean they are a rhino. They could be dead, and just not have room to fall. That being said, I have no problem with people swinging until I fall (except in a couple of circumstances, one of which involved a breach where the press was so tight, people picked up their feet and floated). If it looks like they cant move because the press is so tight, please dont turn them into a PEZ dispenser. When you are the third guy to do that, it really becomes annoying.

[Maredudd]

Hi Eynar, glad you had fun. It was good to meet you. I did manage to get sufficiently un-broken to fight my two-weapons authorisation bout on Sunday morning.
Some of us were talking about exactly the points that you raise, and the only thing I would add to all the excellent points above is to remember that once engagement has been made (whether between individuals or units), dis-engagement does not occur until separation of the length of the longest weapon in the engagement is attained. In other words if you are engaged unit to unit in a melee or war and one person from whichever side is armed with a nine foot spear, it is allowable for you to consider any of the enemy a valid target until and unless they remove themselves (in any direction, including through your lines and behind you) to a distance of at least nine feet from every member of the the engagement. After this the normal rules of eye contact between individuals or units, or "kill from behind" apply in order to re-engage.

[Stefan ap Llewelyn]

Hi Maredudd,

It was nice to meet you too! Thanks for all of the advice, information, kit etc that you so kindly gave to me. It was all much appreciated.

I am glad to hear you were okay to fight on the Sunday. I look forward to crossing swords with you in Tintagil, if not before.

[Sir Daniel]

Irish where di you get that diagram from?

We have a similar picture in the An Tir rules that sucks. That one is much more clear.

[InsaneIrish]

Irish where di you get that diagram from?

We have a similar picture in the An Tir rules that sucks. That one is much more clear.

I drew it myself!

I am a Graphic Designer by Trade, so I just whipped it up in Illustrator. I can send you a larger version if you want to use it.

[Sextus Maximus]

That is The best illustration I have ever seen describing engagement in a melee. Great job...

Aedinius

[InsaneIrish]

That is The best illustration I have ever seen describing engagement in a melee. Great job...

Aedinius

Thanks, as I said above, I will provide larger versions to anyone wanting to use them. With or without text.

[Sir Daniel]

Sorry almost forgot about this.

Could you email a bigger one to:

Black_KSCA@H&tmail.com

And of course change the & to an "o"

Much appreciated!

[InsaneIrish]

Sorry almost forgot about this.

Could you email a bigger one to:

Black_KSCA@H&tmail.com

And of course change the & to an "o"

Much appreciated!

done, I also sent a couple of other fighter engagment files I had along with it.

Oh, its not required, but "Illustrations done by Ld. Aiden O'Seaghdha" would be nice.