The Armour Archive

Konnichi Y'all,

As some have seen, I normally play a samurai in black ABS plastic armor. This is pretty hot for Ansteorran summers, hotter than I like anyways. I am thinking of creating a summer kit and persona, non-Japanese, with much lighter armor and weapons - sword and shield probably. I'm thinking of "ugly, light, and under baggy garb"... a look that is popular in these parts.

I have the following gear, easily converted back and forth between Japanese and European kit:

-black rearpoint bascinet
-black clamshell gauntlets
-steel knee cops
-steel elbow cops, currently attached to Japanese-styled splint vambraces

Have you any suggestions for period, style, or kit, O Exalted Brain Trust? Viking? Genericelt? Norman? Huh? Huh? Eh?

I think I'm gonna bring my alternate persona to Gulf War, and he can wander site in my ample European style garb, while Kamaitachi no Kansuke remains cloistered in camp (with nothing to wear but his armor), coming out only for war.

Landsknecht.



seriously.

You can do a VERY nice landsknecht persona with all hidden armour.


Helm, simple round top bascinet. Or, get a cevelier helm top from Cet for about $100, and put a back and grill on it. Landsknechts wore the cevelier. Or cover the whole thing in a slashed arming cap and big pizza hat.

Body armour, concealed plastic under a billowy shirt and Waffenrock.

Arms, same as body armour, concealed (meaning you can use your existing arms) under a billow shirt.

legs, padded/splinted cuisses with simple knee cops covered in fabric and hidden under a pair of slashed top hose.

gaunts, needed, no way out of that.

gorget, either a plate spanish collar or hidden under a chainmail bishops mantle.

Done.

Look at the image below. It is Sir Jean Paul De Sens at Gulf Wars:

You could also make an armored surcoat out of canvas/plastic.. and use everything else you have and it's a 13th/early 14th century kit.

InsaneIrish wrote:Landsknecht.

I should probably add "cheap as dirt" to the qualifications. Fabric and a bit of leather would be about it for purchases for this.

then with a bascinet, you will have to go be part of the 14th century mafia.

GO! BE A SHEEP! WE DON'T NEED YOU IN THE GHESTAPO ANYWAY!

Jesus, InsaneIrish, with the budget he says he has, to be in the 16th century Ghestapo he'd have to be a poor Indian with no weapons who swallowed the gold. So sue me.

Andy, any chance you'd be interested in a road trip west to Gila in late June? I'm looking to hold my camp-out then and I figure I could loan you the clothes and a spot to crash if you bootstrapped it. Miss your company and don't know how many more opportunities I'll have to invite you given my career path.

John
Jehan de Pelham, ecuyer and servant of Sir Vitus
www.mron.org

Try not doing black

and not doing plastic

both are bout the best way to add heat to your rig.


Black plastic being the hottest thing possible.

Your bascially wearing a black thermos

Jehan de Pelham wrote:Jesus, InsaneIrish, with the budget he says he has, to be in the 16th century Ghestapo he'd have to be a poor Indian with no weapons who swallowed the gold. So sue me.

Andy, any chance you'd be interested in a road trip west to Gila in late June? I'm looking to hold my camp-out then and I figure I could loan you the clothes and a spot to crash if you bootstrapped it. Miss your company and don't know how many more opportunities I'll have to invite you given my career path.

John
Jehan de Pelham, ecuyer and servant of Sir Vitus
www.mron.org

With my career path, a road trip may very well be an option - I would love to see you again, Jon. I'm teaching high school geography, so I have paid summers off, and I'll probably just work intermittently out of boredom and need for extra play money. A brief word about the budget:

Normally, I'd have plenty of $$$ for SCA kit (teaching pays better than most people think), but my wife is going to school, and I'm paying the lion's share of the bills for now. This sharply limits the $$$ available for SCA purchases and other extraneous pfapfapfooery. So for a secondary persona, I want to use as much of the generic garb that I already have, and just chop up a cheap side of saddle leather for some undergarb armor. I may actually just go Generic Medieval SCAdian.... the goal is simply to blend into the background - I do my standing out when in Japanese kit.

Right on then. Do your Yahoo Map or Mapquest or whatever to Gila, New Mexico and more to follow in the Crossroads in Time thread in Interpretive Re-creation.

John
Jehan de Pelham, ecuyer and servant of Sir Vitus
www.mron.org

spearweasel wrote:Konnichi Y'all,

As some have seen, I normally play a samurai in black ABS plastic armor. This is pretty hot for Ansteorran summers, hotter than I like anyways. I am thinking of creating a summer kit and persona, non-Japanese, with much lighter armor and weapons - sword and shield probably. I'm thinking of "ugly, light, and under baggy garb"... a look that is popular in these parts.

Yes, I suggest Japanese. For the time I was in Ansteorra, I wore similar armour. Actually, I had to ADD armour to my kit to comply with Ansteorran body armour rules (had to add solid vambraces. Dumb Texans use their arms as body armour.)

However, regardless of my personal experiences, you wish to avoid as much heat as you can. Really, Japanese armour breathes very well, if made to do so. I have suggestions.

First off, avoid solidly constructed dou, soch as okegawa, tosei, etc. Get something with lames, constructed with kizane, kiritsuke, or mogami. They breathe a lot better.

Second, wear proper armour clothing. This not only sheds heat, but absorbs sweat very well.

Third, lace your kote somehwat more loosely. You will lose a lot more heat from under your arms that way.

I have the following gear, easily converted back and forth between Japanese and European kit:

-black rearpoint bascinet
-black clamshell gauntlets
-steel knee cops
-steel elbow cops, currently attached to Japanese-styled splint vambraces

Get a good kabuto, preferably with so-men. Properly done, this is about 10 times cooler than your bascinet. If you wear it tipped back on the head, you end up with a nice bit of airspace between the back of the ears and the back of the neck, with does wonders for heat removal. A proepr maezashi works just like the bill of a cap to keep the sun off your face, and so-men had openeings where your face does, so you breathe cool air.

Consider going to full kote instead of vambraces (I know, harder to do in Ansteorra). These work very well for losing heat -- better than it seems.

I know I'm not axactly suggesting what you asked for, I'm just pointing out that you probably could stay Japanese with fewer tweaks to your kit than you think, and perhaps more cheaply than starting something new.

Anyways, I'll probably meet you at Gulf Wars. I stumble over to the BG camp at least once every year, and I'll be staying in York (NS Royal).

Jehan de Pelham wrote:Jesus, InsaneIrish, with the budget he says he has, to be in the 16th century Ghestapo he'd have to be a poor Indian with no weapons who swallowed the gold. So sue me.

Hmmm, and here I thought that 5 smileys in a row would be enough to indicate that is was a JOKE. My bad.




Spear Weasel. Why blend in when you can pull off a pretty nice rig relatively easily. Ok, you want to go with what you got, fine.

I big houpalond hides alot of sins. For vams and cuisses just do hidden kydex splints with the rivets poking through and simple knee and elbow cops. The soupcan knees and elbows would work better, but simple generic style is good to.

For the body you can do any type of protection you want, the houpalond will cover it. since you know how to work in plastic I would look to that. maybe you have some scraps lying around that you could fashion into a brig of some kind.

raito wrote:

spearweasel wrote:Konnichi Y'all,

As some have seen, I normally play a samurai in black ABS plastic armor. This is pretty hot for Ansteorran summers, hotter than I like anyways. I am thinking of creating a summer kit and persona, non-Japanese, with much lighter armor and weapons - sword and shield probably. I'm thinking of "ugly, light, and under baggy garb"... a look that is popular in these parts.

Yes, I suggest Japanese. For the time I was in Ansteorra, I wore similar armour. Actually, I had to ADD armour to my kit to comply with Ansteorran body armour rules (had to add solid vambraces. Dumb Texans use their arms as body armour.)

However, regardless of my personal experiences, you wish to avoid as much heat as you can. Really, Japanese armour breathes very well, if made to do so. I have suggestions.

First off, avoid solidly constructed dou, soch as okegawa, tosei, etc. Get something with lames, constructed with kizane, kiritsuke, or mogami. They breathe a lot better.

Actually, my first intention was a Mogami-do for that reason - heat. I couldn't find a pattern I could use for one, and my attempt at one turned into a disaster... I still have a bunch on beautifully laced plates that don't fit each other. If you have a pattern, I'd love to make one. I still think it would be prettier than my Sendai-do.

"Hmmm, and here I thought that 5 smileys in a row would be enough to indicate that is was a JOKE. My bad."

I was joking too, touchy. Notice how the persona suggestion matches his sig line?

John

Jehan de Pelham wrote:"Hmmm, and here I thought that 5 smileys in a row would be enough to indicate that is was a JOKE. My bad."

I was joking too, touchy. Notice how the persona suggestion matches his sig line?

John

Ah, I see, well played Sir, I appologize. With no smileys I assumed you were being serious.

spearweasel wrote:Actually, my first intention was a Mogami-do for that reason - heat. I couldn't find a pattern I could use for one, and my attempt at one turned into a disaster... I still have a bunch on beautifully laced plates that don't fit each other. If you have a pattern, I'd love to make one. I still think it would be prettier than my Sendai-do.

Well, then bubbie, hie thyself over to:
http://www.j-armour.com/method

This is the spot where my method articles have been landing. In particular, I do have the outline for how I pattern Japanese Lamellar dou (of any, type, really). Someone needed to make one, so I wrote that part down in advance (sort of out of sequence). The only caveat is that I wasn't actually making one at the time, so there might be errors in the description. But you're a bright lad, right? You ought to be able to figure it out from what I wrote. There's even pictures. I'll be re-writing it when we actually do the patterning for a real person.

And of course I'm here if you have any questions. I'll be wearing the first iteration of the method at Gulf Wars, so you can see it in person.

raito wrote:

spearweasel wrote:Actually, my first intention was a Mogami-do for that reason - heat. I couldn't find a pattern I could use for one, and my attempt at one turned into a disaster... I still have a bunch on beautifully laced plates that don't fit each other. If you have a pattern, I'd love to make one. I still think it would be prettier than my Sendai-do.

Well, then bubbie, hie thyself over to:
http://www.j-armour.com/method

This is the spot where my method articles have been landing. In particular, I do have the outline for how I pattern Japanese Lamellar dou (of any, type, really). Someone needed to make one, so I wrote that part down in advance (sort of out of sequence). The only caveat is that I wasn't actually making one at the time, so there might be errors in the description. But you're a bright lad, right? You ought to be able to figure it out from what I wrote. There's even pictures. I'll be re-writing it when we actually do the patterning for a real person.

And of course I'm here if you have any questions. I'll be wearing the first iteration of the method at Gulf Wars, so you can see it in person.

I style myself a bright fellow, yes. I believe that your pattern might just be the thing I was looking for. I'm thinking of installing my existing Mogami-esque lames on the front and back of my current Sendai-do, just to provide some ventilation. It would be an ahistorical stopgap, but it still looks alright. I'm curious if the increased ventilation would make a difference... since everything is laces, I can do major surgery in the course of a slow evening in front of the TV. A genuine, "Doesn't Make Baron Effingham Vomit"-style Mogami-do would truly be the Bee's Knees.

spearweasel wrote:

raito wrote:

spearweasel wrote:Actually, my first intention was a Mogami-do for that reason - heat. I couldn't find a pattern I could use for one, and my attempt at one turned into a disaster... I still have a bunch on beautifully laced plates that don't fit each other. If you have a pattern, I'd love to make one. I still think it would be prettier than my Sendai-do.

Well, then bubbie, hie thyself over to:
http://www.j-armour.com/method

This is the spot where my method articles have been landing. In particular, I do have the outline for how I pattern Japanese Lamellar dou (of any, type, really). Someone needed to make one, so I wrote that part down in advance (sort of out of sequence). The only caveat is that I wasn't actually making one at the time, so there might be errors in the description. But you're a bright lad, right? You ought to be able to figure it out from what I wrote. There's even pictures. I'll be re-writing it when we actually do the patterning for a real person.

And of course I'm here if you have any questions. I'll be wearing the first iteration of the method at Gulf Wars, so you can see it in person.

I style myself a bright fellow, yes. I believe that your pattern might just be the thing I was looking for. I'm thinking of installing my existing Mogami-esque lames on the front and back of my current Sendai-do, just to provide some ventilation. It would be an ahistorical stopgap, but it still looks alright. I'm curious if the increased ventilation would make a difference... since everything is laces, I can do major surgery in the course of a slow evening in front of the TV. A genuine, "Doesn't Make Baron Effingham Vomit"-style Mogami-do would truly be the Bee's Knees.

The ventilation will help tremendously. In addition wear linen, it's great for our climate.

InsaneIrish wrote:Landsknecht.



seriously.

You can do a VERY nice landsknecht persona with all hidden armour.


Helm, simple round top bascinet. Or, get a cevelier helm top from Cet for about $100, and put a back and grill on it. Landsknechts wore the cevelier. Or cover the whole thing in a slashed arming cap and big pizza hat.

Body armour, concealed plastic under a billowy shirt and Waffenrock.

Arms, same as body armour, concealed (meaning you can use your existing arms) under a billow shirt.

legs, padded/splinted cuisses with simple knee cops covered in fabric and hidden under a pair of slashed top hose.

gaunts, needed, no way out of that.

gorget, either a plate spanish collar or hidden under a chainmail bishops mantle.

Done.

Look at the image below. It is Sir Jean Paul De Sens at Gulf Wars:

I'm looking. And I see about an acre of exposed neck!

Maeryk wrote:
I'm looking. And I see about an acre of exposed neck!

You will have to talk to JP about that one. Its HIS Armour.

InsaneIrish wrote:

Maeryk wrote:
I'm looking. And I see about an acre of exposed neck!

You will have to talk to JP about that one. Its HIS Armour.

And he is the Kingdom Earl Marshal.

Actually, JP wears a different helm now.

audax wrote:

InsaneIrish wrote:

Maeryk wrote:
I'm looking. And I see about an acre of exposed neck!

You will have to talk to JP about that one. Its HIS Armour.

And he is the Kingdom Earl Marshal.

Actually, JP wears a different helm now.

I don't care if he's GOD, unless that's a cleverly disguised leather gorget, I'd bounce him in a nano-second.

My humble suggestion is 16th C border reiver. Your biggest expense would be a basic burgonet, made sca legal. The rest would be a jack of plates and hidden armor under baggy sleeves and pants, and basket hilts are period. Make it all out of linen and you will be set.

(this is a future kit for me )


marcus

You need a brigandine, Kansuke.

it's sort of hot and humid in Japan, if your armor doesn't work maybe you've strayed a bit from proper design
BTW - the "Hachiman Hole" in a dark helmet will create air movement if your padding system leaves a clear path from the shikoro to the crown of the helm

Maeryk wrote:

audax wrote:

InsaneIrish wrote:

Maeryk wrote:
I'm looking. And I see about an acre of exposed neck!

You will have to talk to JP about that one. Its HIS Armour.

And he is the Kingdom Earl Marshal.

Actually, JP wears a different helm now.

I don't care if he's GOD, unless that's a cleverly disguised leather gorget, I'd bounce him in a nano-second.

Actually it's just the distance hiding the fact that there's a drop bar grill

if you see here (click on the image link to get the full size image. Redone to accomodate poster below)





You can see it better

It was and is legal

For the love of Dog, please shrink that pic!


Effingham

Jean Paul de Sens wrote:You can see it better

That is a superbly pretty helm... Can you tell us more about it?

Kotek wrote:

Jean Paul de Sens wrote:You can see it better

That is a superbly pretty helm... Can you tell us more about it?

The helm is a Coventry Sallet made by Master Johannes of Windrose Armoury. He made two of those for me, and that's the second one. When I was shopping for the helm, I wanted a sallet and he wanted to make one of those, and I liked the look.

It's a gorgeous helm though, eh

JP