The Armour Archive

I am a relatively new fighter, authorized now in Sword and Shield only but am looking to expand =) . I live in a fairly remote place with regards to having a lot of fighters to talk to on a daily basis, at least not many that have any more experience than I do so I thought I would turn to you lot.

What is a good length for a great sword. I have a few 6' staves, but no idea how long to make them. I am 6'2" and have long ape arms, the long and lanky sort of guy. I know there is a lot of personal preference in weapon length, but am curious to hear how you guys pick the size of your great sword...yeah...I know how that sounds

Well, I'm 6'0" I like my great sword to be around 5'4" with about 10" of that for the handle. Just how I feel comfortable with it.

My sword is 36", and I think it's pretty great...

10" of handle? WOW! You really have went on the other side of the bell curve.....Most people try to get away with illegally long grips....18" is the society max and I catch many guys with 24 to 26" all the time....and usually the strawberry leaves allow them their very own unit of measurment ......Which I do not understand, because you are allowed riccaso grips.

I like an armpit length sword, with 12-13" of handle. Seems to be a good measurment to get reach and power, but also speed and mobility.
If you don't have a lot of fighters to talk with, I humbly submit
www.scabastardsword.com

From the Society Marshals Site. I checked Northshield and you guys use society standards so enjoy.

[quote]F. Greatswords:
1. Greatswords shall be constructed of rattan of not less than 1¼ inch (33 mm) in total diameter (including tape) along its entire length.
2. Rattan shall not be treated in any way that will substantially reduce its flexibility, i.e. treated with wax, resin, fiberglass, etc.
3. The edges and tip of the blade shall be rounded and the blade itself shall be no less than 1 ¼ inches (33 mm) in cross section.
4. The full length of the blade, including the tip, shall be wrapped with tape in a manner that allows no rattan splinters to protrude.
5. Quillions or crossguards shall have no sharp edges or protruding unpadded points with cross-sections of less than 1¼ inch (33 mm) in diameter. Guards and pommels shall be firmly and securely affixed to the haft.
6. When thrusting tips are used they shall be no less than 2 inches (51mm) in diameter or cross-section and shall provide progressively resistant “giveâ€

It's a really personal metric. My advice is that it is easier to cut it down than glue it back on!

In our household the rule of thumb is to interlace your hands in front of your chest, palms down and thumbs toward you. Raise them up till they stop. Mark rattan at that distance and cut. Trim down from there if needed.

kelly powell wrote:10" of handle? WOW! You really have went on the other side of the bell curve.....Most people try to get away with illegally long grips....18" is the society max and I catch many guys with 24 to 26" all the time....and usually the strawberry leaves allow them their very own unit of measurment ......Which I do not understand, because you are allowed riccaso grips.

The 18 inch limit became meaningless some years ago. Is it actually still in the rules anyplace ?

Johann ColdIron wrote:It's a really personal metric. My advice is that it is easier to cut it down than glue it back on!

In our household the rule of thumb is to interlace your hands in front of your chest, palms down and thumbs toward you. Raise them up till they stop. Mark rattan at that distance and cut. Trim down from there if needed.

I'm pretty sure I'm not getting this right - because for me that distance would be pushing the 7.5 foot limit pretty hard

Kilkenny wrote:

kelly powell wrote:10" of handle? WOW! You really have went on the other side of the bell curve.....Most people try to get away with illegally long grips....18" is the society max and I catch many guys with 24 to 26" all the time....and usually the strawberry leaves allow them their very own unit of measurment ......Which I do not understand, because you are allowed riccaso grips.

The 18 inch limit became meaningless some years ago. Is it actually still in the rules anyplace ?

A few Kingdoms, but I don't remember which ones.

In calontir it is....I'd bet.....They have to clearly define a riccaso grip, so in reality they have a much longer grip....I think it is more of a aesthetic thing.

Start long, that way you can cut it down as you play with it and begin to determine what you like.

Here's mine, 18 inch handle with riccaso grip. I love the feel of this sword and enjoy useing it.

Here in Meridies, I believe you're allowed any grip that's less than half the total length of the sword. So you could have a 72" greatsword that's 37" blade and 35" handle if you wanted (which would essentially be a short unpadded polearm).

Greatswords range from about 49" up to 72"; I've got one of each. I use the big one only for greatsword tourney's which are few and far between. The 49" sword is technically a greatsword (anything over 48") but handles as a bastard sword, being light enough to use one-handed. Twice as fast as the big sword, and half as exhausting. I've been thinking the ideal might lie somewhere between those two, so I might be (cautiously) cutting down the big sword.

At those two extremes of length, distinctly different styles of use come into play. With a 49" sword you can be extremely fast and nimble, and not hesitate to fight close-in, while still having a little length advantage (over sword & shield) if you want to stay out of range. With a 72" sword, against sword & shield you'd probably best stay where you've got range and your opponent doesn't, and you're going to have to work hard. It's great against polearms. If you've got a thrusting tip, it can act as a short spear.

So there are a lot of factors -- what will you be fighting against, what kind of shape are you in, etc. If you've got enough rattan, I'd make one 72" sword (that's 72" including the thrusting tip, if any) with a grip length you find comfortable, then take another 72" staff and gradually cut it down -- say to 66" to start with -- and see how you like a more moderate length. With any luck, you'll find your golden mean.

Edited to add: the 49 inch sword is the one with which I'll be winning the Silver Hammer Tourney.

50", +/- 2". The size of period bastard swords (meant for fighting single combat, unlike period zweihanders, meant to break up pike formations). For those of us who love it, this form feels the "purest" in SCA combat.

Kilkenny wrote:

kelly powell wrote:10" of handle? WOW! You really have went on the other side of the bell curve.....Most people try to get away with illegally long grips....18" is the society max and I catch many guys with 24 to 26" all the time....and usually the strawberry leaves allow them their very own unit of measurment ......Which I do not understand, because you are allowed riccaso grips.

The 18 inch limit became meaningless some years ago. Is it actually still in the rules anyplace ?

It's in the AEthelmearc kingdom weapons regs (or was as recently as February, when I stepped down as KEM), but you're right that at the Society level there are no such regs, as of when the SEM combined greatsword and polearm into one weapon type, ~18 months ago.

FWIW, my greatsword (the one I use most often, anyway), is 45" long: 15" hilt, 30" blade, plus a bit when I add a thrusting tip.

Saburou wrote:50", +/- 2". The size of period bastard swords (meant for fighting single combat, unlike period zweihanders, meant to break up pike formations). For those of us who love it, this form feels the "purest" in SCA combat.

I agree, I find a long-, bastard-, or hand-and-a-half-sword to be way more funner than a longer great- or two-hand-sword. And if you bring out your 6' anchor against my 4' bastage, you better have some strawberry leaves to go with it.

Blaine de Navarre wrote:And if you bring out your 6' anchor against my 4' bastage, you better have some strawberry leaves to go with it.

Strong words. Can't disagree, though.

There is one exception I can think of. 3 weeks ago, this newbie fought me with a greatsword that must have weighed 7 or 8 pounds. His arms were as big as my thighs and he threw a shot that only moved 10 inches and numbed my arm. Dudes like that require special treatment, and my foolishness for underestimating this.

Blaine de Navarre wrote:

Saburou wrote:50", +/- 2". The size of period bastard swords (meant for fighting single combat, unlike period zweihanders, meant to break up pike formations). For those of us who love it, this form feels the "purest" in SCA combat.

I agree, I find a long-, bastard-, or hand-and-a-half-sword to be way more funner than a longer great- or two-hand-sword. And if you bring out your 6' anchor against my 4' bastage, you better have some strawberry leaves to go with it.

chuckle... I used to really dislike two handed swords. When I fought with them, someone always got hurt. I don't care if it's me, or the other guy, I don't like when people get hurt fighting.

Some where along the line things changed just a bit, and two handed sword bouts stopped being a guaranteed injury for someone.

I really prefer watching them to using them - it's distinctly my least favorite form. But it's beautiful to watch two fighters who are good with them.

And I would be willing to bring a 6 footer out against your little stick . Could be fun, whatever happened.

kelly powell wrote:10" of handle? WOW! You really have went on the other side of the bell curve.....Most people try to get away with illegally long grips....18" is the society max and I catch many guys with 24 to 26" all the time....and usually the strawberry leaves allow them their very own unit of measurment ......Which I do not understand, because you are allowed riccaso grips.

I don't need much handle for what I like to do with my two-hander, and the shorter handle makes it much easier for me to use one handed if necessary. This is of course for one on one bouts, for a War I'll never choose take out a great sword when I can have a glaive, but in most cases I fight spear or sword and shield at war.

Strawberry Leaves give the bearer certain advantages, not the least of which is skill.

Kilkenny wrote:

Blaine de Navarre wrote:if you bring out your 6' anchor against my 4' bastage, you better have some strawberry leaves to go with it.

I would be willing to bring a 6 footer out against your little stick . Could be fun, whatever happened.

If we ever happen to find ourselves in the same zip code, I'll be happy to take you up on that, Your Grace.

In a bout between a 6-foot greatsword and a bastard sword, give me the bastard sword every time. (Unless my feet are stuck in a hole, in which case the greatsword's range advantage would be telling.)

Kilkenny wrote:

kelly powell wrote:10" of handle? WOW! You really have went on the other side of the bell curve.....Most people try to get away with illegally long grips....18" is the society max and I catch many guys with 24 to 26" all the time....and usually the strawberry leaves allow them their very own unit of measurment ......Which I do not understand, because you are allowed riccaso grips.

The 18 inch limit became meaningless some years ago. Is it actually still in the rules anyplace ?

It is still in use in Calontir. However, it is a kingdom convention and not a society one. There has been discussion about deleting that requirement, but the concensis is that we don't want to delete it.


Kelly Powell:

I am pretty sure your only joking about the "strawberry leaves" thing, but honestly, underhanded jibes, even made in jest, when thrown to an audience that you are not familiar with are still insulting.

Brynjolfr Hrafnsson wrote:What is a good length for a great sword. I have a few 6' staves, but no idea how long to make them. I am 6'2" and have long ape arms, the long and lanky sort of guy. I know there is a lot of personal preference in weapon length, but am curious to hear how you guys pick the size of your great sword...yeah...I know how that sounds

It has always been my logic that you make the maximum length greatsword that your kingdom allows. Otherwise you are only "shorting" yourself in battle.

Unless you are very short (read as 5 foot or so) I would not recommend making a "short" greatsword. Go the maximum and adjust from there.

InsaneIrish wrote:

Brynjolfr Hrafnsson wrote:What is a good length for a great sword. I have a few 6' staves, but no idea how long to make them. I am 6'2" and have long ape arms, the long and lanky sort of guy. I know there is a lot of personal preference in weapon length, but am curious to hear how you guys pick the size of your great sword...yeah...I know how that sounds

It has always been my logic that you make the maximum length greatsword that your kingdom allows. Otherwise you are only "shorting" yourself in battle.

Unless you are very short (read as 5 foot or so) I would not recommend making a "short" greatsword. Go the maximum and adjust from there.

That is good advice for melee fighting, but tournaments are another thing.

You are also living in a Kingdom where six foot great sword is an art form. For example I don't even know if anyone here even owns a six foot sword let alone can display mastery with one. Personally I would rather match my opponents weapon, or fight with something shorter, I don't want to be the guy with the longer reach in a great sword fight. Much of it will depend on local practices.

-Justus

justus wrote:
That is good advice for melee fighting, but tournaments are another thing.

You are also living in a Kingdom where six foot great sword is an art form. For example I don't even know if anyone here even owns a six foot sword let alone can display mastery with one.

Well, I can't argue with that.

Personally I would rather match my opponents weapon, or fight with something shorter, I don't want to be the guy with the longer reach in a great sword fight. Much of it will depend on local practices.

-Justus

Very true, much will depend on local practices. And you are probably right, a longer greatsword probably IS more for melee. But, there are many around here that use the same 6fter for melee and tourney. The ones that have shorter than 6ft. usually have learned how to counter act the reach of the longer Gsword.

No matter what you choose, practice and patience will be your guide.

I fight with a 6 foot great sword with a roughly 18 inch handle. With the aluminum fittings from Windrose the balance is fantastic. I also use just over 1.25 inch rattan. Mine handles with the speed of a bastard sword, and i'd be happy to square up against a bastard sword. I am 5'7" and other than being in really tight quarters, I do not have trouble with the length. But like all weapons it is ultimately personal preference.



Uric

Blackoak -- if I get to go back to Gulf Wars, we must make an appointment. Your kit looks great, by the way.

ETA -- for you, I'll haul out my six-footer.

I didn't get to fight barely any pick-ups last GW, so I will be looking for a full dance card this upcoming one. Hopefully we can meet and cross swords.

Uric

I have always used about a 56in total. For grip length, if I'm holding the sword in one hand just behind the quillions, the tip of the pommel should be even with the bony point of my elbow (the part you hit with in an elbow strike)
Thats always worked well for me- gives me good range, good balance, I can use it one handed, and I like the lever action I get from that size grip.
Drefan

Thanks to this thread, I determined to make a new sword somewhere between the 72" and 49" lengths of my two existing swords, and try it out at practice.

Great -- but my available 7-foot length of rattan has a bend in it. What to do? Back to the Armour Archive, and I looked up threads about straightening rattan. Piece of cake. This board really is a great resource.

Use the bend. I make the curve point out (imagine the opposite way a scimitar bends). Isolate the curve as close to the tip as possible. If the sword flexes, it will now only flex to straight, adding more pressure to shots.

Thanks, but believe me, my shots don't need any additional pressure. Also, I like to pretend my rattan weapon is a real sword and (I hope) use it in a way that would work with steel; don't want to take advantage of the peculiar characteristics of rattan.

It'd be so cool to put together a unit of greatswordsmen to take out spears.