The Armour Archive

Hi,

I was looking at the injuries and heart attack deaths on the other thread (NOTE: statistically these injuries border on insignificant in their numbers IMO) and thought, “When would I give up this game?â€

I'll stop when it is no longer fun or the risks outweigh the benefits. I would chase women if I couldn't fight anymore.

Odo

If I had a life-threatening injury (heart, kidney, liver, etc...) that could be triggered by fighting, I would stop -- with deep regret.

So if I had terminal lung cancer, that couldn't be changed by fighting, I'd fight on. But if I had serious heart disease, I'd stop.

Loss of limbs can now be replaced and I would soldier on with an artificial limb attached to my armour.

With respect,

-Aaron

People ask me all the time if riding my motorcycle scares me at all.

My answer is yes, it does, and thats why I do it.


SCA fighting is similar to me, just not born of fear.

Its a challenge to overcome with the side effect of a hearty dash of fun. If I stop, I have lost.

(OK, There are a few reasons I would allow that I would consider not be quiting, but injury isnt one of them. That would still be giving up, even if it is a wise choice.)

A couple of years ago.

When will I quit fighting? Probably when I crawl into my GP and he tells I need to go see an Osteopathic Surgeon. It really is a toss-up between my knees and my shoulders to see which is going to blow first.

Other than that, it's been a hell of a ride!

As for the aftermath. I have projects in the arts and sciences; papers to write.

Mord.

If the bones become so brittle that a regular blow would break them . . .

If the muscles grow so weak that they can no longer strike a telling blow no matter what sort of workout regimen I maintain . . .

IF the eyes become so dim that I cannot make out ally from adversary (initially wrote "friend from foe" but all are friends in this world, some are simply on the other side at any given time) . . .

If the heart becomes too fragile to bear the strain and excitement of battle or tourney . . .

If the joints become so stiff that movement becomes too impaired . . .

Then will I hang up my sword for good.

I will make music on the sidelines, make speeches before a battle, and make merry with those I will still call comrades after the battle or tourney is over.

__________________________________________
Donal Mac Ruiseart, O. Pel.
Squire to Viscount Tojanereum Grenville of Devon.
Fighter since A.S. IX (1974 CE)

If the woman that I love asks me to stop for serious health risk reasons. Even then, I would do my best to keep marshalling and teaching anyone that would be willing to listen to the ramblings of a old, retired fighter.

[quote="Aaron"]Hi,

I was looking at the injuries and heart attack deaths on the other thread (NOTE: statistically these injuries border on insignificant in their numbers IMO) and thought, “When would I give up this game?â€

When will I stop fighting?

A week after they bury me.

I don't really fight much anymore on a week-to-week basis. In fact, hardly ever- I am simply too busy.
That is about to change. New guys with talent always get me to come out again.

[quote="Aaron"]

Nissan’s response to a sudden loss of use of his left arm and a crushing feeling in his chest would be, “I need to drink more beer and have some bacon!â€

Aaron wrote:And, IF you had to stop, what would you do after that?

Start decomposing or get very hot, very quickly - one or the other.

B

When I got the job teaching high school I stopped fighting regularly. Of course I pretty much stopped going out of the house, seeing friends, eating, or anything else fun for that matter.

When I stopped teaching I wanted to fight again, but I didn't have any insurance. I fight a few times a year now at events, I lose because I don't practice, but I have fun.

When my status at this job becomes salaried with benifits (in the works now) and I have insurance again I plan to start practicing and fight more often.

What an inspiring story about the guy in the woods. No doubt it will be health related the day I face the sad truth... I'm going on 49 and the body is starting to show some signs of fair wear and tear in my joints and back. Nothing too serious right now but I know it's there. I’m hoping I can go for another 15 or 20 years. Only time will tell.

As for what I’d do after I have to stop that’s up in the air. It would kind of suck to go to Pennsic and not fight; marshaling would just break my heart. But that’s just me thinking that while I ‘m healthy enough to still fight. In all honesty my spouse doesn’t get into the SCA that much… well really not at all... she tolerates it because she knows I love to fight and it keeps me active. Once I have to stop fighting I pretty much suspect that will be the end of my SCA days locally. Perhaps we’d still show up at Pennsic every now and then to keep up with old friends in the household and bitch at the younger guys in the household for their armor looking like crap

I was recently told a story about a man who didnt get his initial auth till he was 67. He couldnt fight any style but spear, and had a blast. His time as a fighter was short, he was done by the time he was 70, due to health issues.

Yeah he wished he had discovered it sooner, yeah he wished he could go on, but he had no regrets. He fought for the amount of time he had and loved every second of it.

I will quit when its no fun, or I cant pick up a sword.

I hope to sit down in harness after a major battle late in my life surrounded by my firends and family and quietly pass as those who have gone before come to tell me i have done enough.

Hopefuly no one will notice until i do not rise for the next pass and they find me with a smile still on the field but gone from it as well.

When have I stopped fighting - on the occasions when my families emotional, or financial needs outweighed my wish to compete.
What brings me back - I love this art, and the people who engage in it
When will I stop - when I get a dilation test, and my doctor starts discussing cumulative damage to the retina so far this hasn't happened but I get checked regularly just because

Hi,

I’ve seen many senior fighters go to spear and fight exclusively in wars. This seems to be a good way to go and when I hit that big 7-O, I expect that I will do the same. It seems to be a bunch of walking with friends (good for you) with a little bit of strength training (good for you) and a crutch if you need it for knees failing on an on-and-off style.

Loved the stories and some of you are downright poetic. I found Murdock’s planned ending and the 70 year old fighter story especially moving.

-Aaron

The first time I stopped fighting was under doctor's orders - retinal issues. My retina specialist was familiar with rattan combat, as one of his college buddies was an active participant. He felt the likelihood at the time was that repeated concussive impacts to the head would lead to blindness - partial or full.

After tons of laser surgeries, some (steel knife) slice and dice surgeries on my eyes, and several years, he cleared me to fight again, and I did so for several more years.

I am having some new eye issues, and won't be taking the field again. While I miss the fighting, spending time haunting libraries was as much of my hobby time as committing war atrocities with a stick.

Fulltime arts jock now.

[quote="Aaron"]Hi,

I was looking at the injuries and heart attack deaths on the other thread (NOTE: statistically these injuries border on insignificant in their numbers IMO) and thought, “When would I give up this game?â€

Murdock wrote:I hope to sit down in harness after a major battle late in my life surrounded by my firends and family and quietly pass as those who have gone before come to tell me i have done enough.

Hopefuly no one will notice until i do not rise for the next pass and they find me with a smile still on the field but gone from it as well.

Murdock, that was one of the most inspiring things I have read in my life.
!S

Hard to follow a Prince's comments, but I'll try.

As for quitting, you don't. Maybe you can't do it any more, but guess what, I was inspired hugely by seeing a certain baron of a nearby barony in the field at Pennsic.
Realistically, he probably had no business in the same field as some crown tournament winners of the Middle or some of the Tuchux, but there by the Grace of God there he went . Like an awesome Gloster Gladiator fighting Macchis around Malta. Off he went like the youngest fighter in the group.

So you don't quit. Maybe you can't fight tournaments, but your experience and courage serve the steady the newer fighters, like the older age groups of the Greek Hoplites. You become the backbone of the shield wall.

As for Murdock's remarks, well said indeed. I always said that I want to go either in my sleep, or surrounded by a bunch of dead enemies with even more coming at me....

Rowan

When I HAVE to stop (and Mali will let me know, and she wil be fair and honest and reasonable about it, and because I know her as I do, I WILL stop) I plan to stay on the field in whatever capacity I can-combat archer, seige engineer, Marshall, hell, water bearer if I can't do the other things.
This is where I belong. If my body fails me, so be it, but I aim to stay where I belong.

It's very heartening to hear and see that guys from the generation before mine are staying in armor longer than the guys in the preceding generation. Real armor helps, as does fighting smart.

Murdock wrote:I hope to sit down in harness after a major battle late in my life surrounded by my firends and family and quietly pass as those who have gone before come to tell me i have done enough.

That would be a very sad day my friend, to have you gone... yet we would fight a tourney in your honour.

Like many others on this list I would only stop fighting when my body prevents me. I am 49 and I am going strong fighting with great vigor. I exercise at the gym to keep my body young and God has blessed me with a strong and healthy body so I hope to fight into my 70s. I have had only one significant fighting injury in 15 plus years of fighting.

I would like to do more teaching and coaching as wind down from fighting.

As a 33 year old who has a major heart condition. I have to fight. It keeps me in better shape and gives me a reason to stay on the healthy side of things.

I see my cardiologists on a regular basis and have explained what I do. The doctors in training (I’m seen at a teaching hospital) are very surprised to hear that I wear the armor that I do and have fought at high altitude with no problems. I think it is good to remind them that not all people with heart conditions are fragile.

That being said. I grew up with my heart condition and am reminded every day in the shower that my time is shorter than most. It is why I wear a full breastplate. The flip side is that I am not someone who is new to self monitoring their body. I know I have a limit and it is not a new limit. If anything the more I fight the further my limit goes.

Just a perspective.
-Dietrich

Greetings Brother!
I am nearly 41. I had my first hear surgery at 3 years old and my second at 17. I started fighting about 3 years after my last heart surgery, in part because no thought I would be able to.
My own cardiologists are completely dumbfounded by my martial exploits and I participate full well knowing the risk and consequences. Baron Gundric of Roaring Waste (who passed at a fight practice from cardiac issues) also had a repaired congenital heart lesion. In fact, we had the same cardiologist and heart surgeon.
I fight in the SCA for all the times in my life that I felt that I could not fight back, but could only suck it up and endure. I fight for those who can never fight at all and for those who will never take the field again.
One day, when my defective heart valve finally goes kaput and has to be replaced, I will have to give up fighting in armor, but I will never give up fighting.

Captain William Campion wrote:I fight in the SCA for all the times in my life that I felt that I could not fight back, but could only suck it up and endure. I fight for those who can never fight at all and for those who will never take the field again.

This hit home, brother. I am thankful for every day I am in armor, and don't take it for granted. A good SCA friend's son is now 16 and would *love* to fight. He is fast, he is vibrant and healthy, loves everything about it, and would greatly benefit from it as a means of discipline as he is having some troubles adjusting to his teen years.

Sadly, he has OI, or "Brittle Bone" disease, and as such can never fight. I feel so bad for him. We encourage him to try archery and the like, but it just doesnt hold the appeal armoured combat does for him. It folk like him who make me remember how greatful I am for a day in armor.

When Odin decides I'm done.

Moments before meeting the Valkarie. What a lucky man.

Very stirring and uplifting. That’s a powerful picture. I will strike a telling blow upon a worthy brother with his name on my lips tonight.

What would cause me to hang up my harness?

Injury? Maybe. But really, even if I lost a limb, I don’t think I would stop. It would just be a matter of adaptation. About the only thing I could think of is if the injury were so severe that taking one more head shot could be fatal.

Age? Frankly, with the proper and appropriate regimen, we don’t really know how old you can be and still participate. My Master, Gunther Von Stien is still going strong at 67. I would imagine that, somewhere around 80, the muscle atrophy would catch up with any training regimen, though, and cause the loss of power to the point that one could not generate a good shot… maybe… There are many Kendo practitioners who train past 80. (although they do not hit as hard, of course)

Obligation?: Not to belittle this pressure, but if something is important enough, one can find a way.

I think if one looks at it as a way, or a path, rather than just a game, the parameters change.

I absolutely love something D. Sebastian said once.
“My ultimate goal as a fighter:
1. To rip the ugly, false, and weak from my soul and hurl it into hell
2. To pull the powerful, intrepid, and unstoppable from within and wear it like a tabard.
3. To forward the honor of my Lady, consort, Knight, Duchy, and Kingdom
4. To find the very end of what I am through this test of men and mettle, and push past.
That is what I want.â€

I'm primarily a spearman anyway in war, and I suspect that when my stamina diminishes to the point that I can no longer be a viable force in tournaments, I will still amble out into the field with spear on shoulder to strike a few blows in support of my King.

The image of a chain being only as strong as its weakest link is often trotted out, but I do NOT think it a valid analogy for fighting in a battle. It is more like a rope, in which every strand, however slender, strengthens it; and to which the loss of any one strand, however strong, does not cripple it.

Perhaps when I get that old I will only be able to strike a half-dozen blows. Well, that's a half-dozen blows that someone has to try to parry and may take one or two adversaries off the field. Moreover, I have been told even now that my continued presence amongst the fighters is an inspiration. If I'm an inpiration at 56, how much more of one might I be at 66, or 76, or (by the grace of God) 86?

"Damn, look at old Donal out there . . . if he's still in armour . . ."

The spear may be the last weapon I hang up. And it may well be that at some point my comrades will have to take mine and someone else's and place a shield or two over them and carry me from the field one last time.

If that be so, so be it.

Imma be like Donal whenz I growed up.

You can have my armour when you pry it off my cold dead body.

I'll stop when it becomes impossible to wear the harness without serious pain or strike a telling blow. Then I'll concentrate on rapier.