The Armour Archive

I'm curious how one would point plate armour over mail. Would you try and slip arming points from the gambeson through the mail? or does this work http://histvarld.historiska.se/histvarld/draekter/1300sladel/i/harnesk-sned.jpg pointing it straight to the mail?

u really need to have the points go thru the arming garment and pull the points thru the mail. if its just on the mail, it could sag or break rings, and it would flop around an not be as close to the wearer as it should. (case in point if you lean over, your spaulder will roll off where it needs to be.)

Ok, is it difficult to put an arming point through maille? (my maille hasn't arrived yet but soon so I am trying to learn the basics to it)

Hail! I am currenlty putting together the mac daddy mid-14th C kit, and am doing the same. After trial and error, I have found that I sewed leather squares to the gambeson that have lucet cord in them, and then I put the maille garment on and get it situated and marked and do the same, with a second thin leather "tab" on the maille. I did this for the 3/4 cannon arms and the vanbraces are worn beneath the maille also tied to a point of leather sewn to the gambeson.
The chausses are seperate, pointed to the same belt the leg harness is on, and on the backside of the belt so the points for the cuisses are on the outside of the maille when put on. I use a "C" belt for my cuisses.
I am currenlty sewing small tabs on the back of the thigh of the maille, right above the knee for the leather strap from the knee to pass through to aid in holding up the maille.
A trick I learned is that you really also need to have a lucet cord or leather "strap" at the bicep above the elbow, and at the wrist to help support the maille, and at the knee above the calf. I'll be switching out the shoelace I'm using now for a more permenant leather "belt" that also passes through a loop of soft leather that is sewn to the maille as a belt loop in those areas.

On a note on this idea, is it more proper to wear a maille coif over or under the padded helm liner in a 14th C sugarloaf helm?

Leo Medii wrote:On a note on this idea, is it more proper to wear a maille coif over or under the padded helm liner in a 14th C sugarloaf helm?

From a book I have recently read, the historical way of wearing a great helm was to put on an arming cap, a steel skull cap, put the coif over that, tehn place a ring of clothe around the crown, kind of like a turban. Then put the great helm on. The process is probably similar for a sugar loaf.

Yep. Same here, I was hoping it was the other way.

Leo Medii wrote:Hail! I am currenlty putting together the mac daddy mid-14th C kit, and am doing the same. After trial and error, I have found that I sewed leather squares to the gambeson that have lucet cord in them, and then I put the maille garment on and get it situated and marked and do the same, with a second thin leather "tab" on the maille. I did this for the 3/4 cannon arms and the vanbraces are worn beneath the maille also tied to a point of leather sewn to the gambeson.
The chausses are seperate, pointed to the same belt the leg harness is on, and on the backside of the belt so the points for the cuisses are on the outside of the maille when put on. I use a "C" belt for my cuisses.
I am currenlty sewing small tabs on the back of the thigh of the maille, right above the knee for the leather strap from the knee to pass through to aid in holding up the maille.
A trick I learned is that you really also need to have a lucet cord or leather "strap" at the bicep above the elbow, and at the wrist to help support the maille, and at the knee above the calf. I'll be switching out the shoelace I'm using now for a more permenant leather "belt" that also passes through a loop of soft leather that is sewn to the maille as a belt loop in those areas.

On a note on this idea, is it more proper to wear a maille coif over or under the padded helm liner in a 14th C sugarloaf helm?

Would you be able to do a little doodle of what this looks like minus the chausses (don't have any...yet)? I'm a tad confused, sounds like you are pointing it to the gambeson and the mail?

What I am planning to do is point an eblow cop with roundel on it over my elbow as well as splinted vambraces and rerebraces. It is a full sleeve hauberk (though if this ends up being too much trouble I will cut it down so it ends just after the vambraces begin).

I spoke with Mad Matt last night about pointing plate over mail. He says one should point it right to the mail but through multiple rings to limit the stress put on the ties and the mail. I believe him since he has had years of working with mail, but would like to hear other people's opinions on this.

I've always seen it pointed to the garments under the maille. Maille is heavy enough as it is, and will sometimes slip just from its own weight. As plate defences need to be in just the right place to work properly its better to lace them to the garment through the maille. This will also help hold the maille in the right position.

zachos wrote:I've always seen it pointed to the garments under the maille. Maille is heavy enough as it is, and will sometimes slip just from its own weight. As plate defences need to be in just the right place to work properly its better to lace them to the garment through the maille. This will also help hold the maille in the right position.

How hard is it to get the laces through the mail? I'm far away from having a squire and don't want to always be bothering other fighters to help me into my kit.

When fighting in an authentic rig you will find it impossible to get into kit without help whatever you do. In our group there is an unwritten rule/understanding that anyone available helps anyone who needs help with their armour. Because everyone does it for everyone no-one is seen as taking advantage of anyone else.

If it really worries you asking for help then think on this: Its much more appropriate to ask someone for help in attaching your kit before the fight begins than to ruin the fight because you attached things yourself and you need to retire to sort it out every 5 minutes.

Final thought: is your hauberk riveted? There is no way a butted hauberk would stand up to having anything pointed to it so that would decide things for you immediately.

Yes it is riveted.

Well that would make it possible to point it to the maille, but I'd still go for pointing to the arming clothes. Its just more secure.

But then you could always try both and let us know what works best for you.

Indeed. Thank you all for the input.