IÂ´m straight up indecisve, (edit: decision made!)

Urban · Post by **Urban** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:54 pm

Ok, IÂ´ve been talking and wishing and dreaming about getting a kit going again and getting back on the field. IÂ´m ready to stop talking and start doing, but I am completely stuck on what kit I should do. IÂ´ve narrowed it down to three. The helm is really the only thing I would definitely have to buy, and as far as I can tell any of them are going to cost roughly the same, most other things I think I could make. So hereÂ´s what IÂ´ve got.

No matter which kit I shoot for I want to go for as historically accurate as I can while not breaking the bank.

1. 11th Century Norman
This would consist of a conical helm w/aventail, hidden body, arm and leg armor (have hidden legs already), eventually a mail hauberk, kite shield.

2. 13th Century Kievan Rus
Rus helm/great polish helm, lamellar body, bazubands (not accurate I know, maybe hidden) hidden legs, kite shield.

3. 14th Century Mafia
Either a sugarloaf or klappvisor helm, coat of plates, splinted arms/legs, heater shield, splinted greaves.

Any of them if put together well looks the shiznit IMO, IÂ´m just torn on which one to do. Pros/Cons, cost to build, comments, suggestions, all are greatly appreciated.

~Folcric

Cian of Storvik · Post by **Cian of Storvik** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:15 pm

In my opinion, 14th century mafia is the easiest to do historically correct and still be SCA legal. There's also an abundance of companies that manufacture the pieces, so you have a smorgasborg of armor from the 14th cen to chose from.

Note that klapvisors are later period then sugarloafs.

The SCA itself is based upon the chivalric period and the victorian ideal time (e.g. guns don't exist). The feudal titles, orders, awards and heraldry mirror northern european 14th century. The 14th century is the basis for such novels as "The White Company". The oldest and most exclusive English order of chivalry, Order of the Garter originated in the middle of the 14th. Canterbury Tales and many of Thomas Mallory's versions of Arthurian legends (le Morte d' Arthur) date from the 14th century.
Tournaments of peace, which is basically what we are doing in the SCA (no one is trying to kill anyone for real) proliferated in the 14th century.

(Once again, you can do any period you want, but in my opinion the 14th century mafia, northern European is the easiest to pull off and possibly the least expensive).

-Cian

Saritor · Post by **Saritor** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:39 pm

Cian of Storvik wrote:Note that klapvisors are later period then sugarloafs.

True, but given the rest of his armor choices (all splinted), overlap is certainly possible between Klappvisor and Sugarloaf. They're separated by 20 years, but still feasible.

Blaine de Navarre · Post by **Blaine de Navarre** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:39 pm

Come over to the Spangen Menace. You know you wanna. I bet Icefalcon will have some hauberks at Estrella, right in your own back yard, in just a couple weeks.

Urban · Post by **Urban** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:46 pm

If I go that route a hauberk is going to be awhile off, thatÂ´s icing on the cake.

zippy · Post by **zippy** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:25 pm

hey Folcric
what are you fighting in now
we have alot of Rus and Normans represented
in Atenveldt
go 14th just for fun
but man
just pick a helm and rock it
one piece at a time
all of the guys that are gods on the archive
started with one piece
maybe they bought a bunch all at once
but one piece of armour got the idea rolling
have fun
Sir Zhigmun'
P.S. i hope to see you at the next war practice

Urban · Post by **Urban** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:36 pm

IÂ´m actually not fighting at the moment. I havenÂ´t been on the field since Estrella 2006, and unfortunately IÂ´m not going to be able to make Estrella this year. I have noticed a lot of rus kits here recently, a lot in my barony actually.

If I go Mafia, what time period would a visored sugarloaf fit into exactly. And does anyone make them? I think the one on the pattern archive is tits. IÂ´d love a helm like that.

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:57 pm

Try 1330's 40's

it's underepresented and kinda neat

Adamo · Post by **Adamo** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:59 pm

I'm currently working on a Norman kit, with the exception of my hauberk it's pretty affordable:
Mild steel conical from James River Armory $225-275 (I think he recently increased the price)
Aventail $80-225 (low end being butted, high end being welded stainless)
Stainless elbow/knee cops from Stonekeep Armory ~$40 a pair
Side of leather to make vambraces, hidden legs, hidden body, <$100
Gorget $I don't know

Just throw a gambeson or tunic over it, and you've got a decent kit, ready to be perfected by a matching hauberk at any moment. Get some boots from Bohemond or make your own for extra points.

If you use plastic for the legs, arms and body it's even cheaper probably.

Once I complete the kit, I'll put it all in it's own thread with how I made everything and such.

Adam

zippy · Post by **zippy** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:08 am

just get some armour then
the super authenticity of your kit should not be your first priority
it is something you strive for constantly
noone is 100 percent happy with their kit
i mean noone
even if they are happy with it now
ask them again in 6 months
getting on the field will get you a better idea of what fits
its been years man
get back in the saddle
it sucks you arent making estrella
it is super close
and you are in twin moons i believe
that barony rocks
the commander for your division just got offered knighthood
have fun
Zhigmun'

Urban · Post by **Urban** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:17 am

I donÂ´t plan on having the kit completely put together right away, I ask more because I plan on investing in a good helm, looking for something thatÂ´s going to last a long time and look good.
Windrose and Strawberry Fields Armory both have excellent Norman Helms
Mad Matt has great Bascinets,
a Rus IÂ´d have to commission, but Donngal of Windrose makes excellent Rus helms.

IÂ´m planning on spending at the very least 500 - 600 dollars on a helm, and the rest of the kit will come with time. I guess I just want to make an informed decision on this.

Bleddyn De Caldicot · Post by **Bleddyn De Caldicot** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:36 am

White Mountain Armoury is offering two kinds of sugarloaf greathelms, and Master Magnus seems quite good at making different styles of helmets. The early 14th century is a very cool time period and as Murdock said it is underepresented.

Christophe de Frisselle · Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:46 am

1. 11th Century Norman

It's the best kit to have. All the cool kids wear it and it's the armour standard. Not to mention the best century, unless you like the Crusades, and best culture. You said you already have hidden legs. Shoes, Winingas and a knee lenght tunic with some kind of padding under it. You'd be mostly there.

Urban · Post by **Urban** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:47 am

Excellent, that WMA Sugarloaf is just what I was looking for.

So early 14th century. Has the coat of plates come into being yet? Are we still in the mail armor with knee cops (forgive my mundane terminology)?

Doing something that is underrepresented sounds like my idea of fun. If the body was covered with a surcoat/tabard I could do hidden body stuff. Thanks again for all the tips and suggestions.

And Zippy it does suck I wonÂ´t be making it to war, yes the barony is awesome, and I recall hearing someone mention they were being knighted at Estrella, canÂ´t think of his name, if I recall he was Squired to Sir Tristan, previous Baron of Twin Moons.

Bleddyn De Caldicot · Post by **Bleddyn De Caldicot** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:25 am

The coat of plates is emerging. I am currently working on an early 14th century kit based around the sculptures at the strassbourg cathedral (will add the link to some photos is them tomorrow). You should take a look at some of the effigies and brasses of the first half of the 14th century.

Angusm0628 · Post by **Angusm0628** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:35 am

follow up on the effigy comment.. Here's a couple sites you might wanna look into

http://flickr.com/photos/13973564@N07/1635738828

http://www.themcs.org/armour/14th%20cen ... armour.htm

These are a veritable goldmine of effigies.

Kenwrec Wulfe · Post by **Kenwrec Wulfe** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:43 am

I will also say 14th century, but dont do the typical western Europe stuff. Go with something less seen - like Murdock suggested - 1330s-1340s. Maybe hit 14th century Italy or Greece or go a little futher east and do Hungarian or Polish. Hell - Russian, Byzantine, Lithuanian...all great choices with some beautiful stuff....

Ingvarr · Post by **Ingvarr** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:02 pm

It's Morgan who is being knighted at Estrella. Were you out at practice last week? If so, I don't think we met. There were a lot of new people around though. If you are out this week, say hi. I'm the really small guy with the blue and white glaive. Shame you can't make war but there will be another one next year. If you go with the 14th century kit, have you looked at Mad Matt's Pistoia breastplate. That thing would almost be enough to convert me. It is full of bacon flavored awesome.

Bleddyn De Caldicot · Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:43 pm

Angusm0628 wrote:follow up on the effigy comment.. Here's a couple sites you might wanna look into

http://flickr.com/photos/13973564@N07/1635738828

http://www.themcs.org/armour/14th%20cen ... armour.htm

These are a veritable goldmine of effigies.

These are the links I had planned to post. The images on the flickr account are the ones from strassbourg.

Urban · Post by **Urban** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:01 pm

Ingvarr wrote:It's Morgan who is being knighted at Estrella. Were you out at practice last week? If so, I don't think we met. There were a lot of new people around though. If you are out this week, say hi. I'm the really small guy with the blue and white glaive. Shame you can't make war but there will be another one next year. If you go with the 14th century kit, have you looked at Mad Matt's Pistoia breastplate. That thing would almost be enough to convert me. It is full of bacon flavored awesome.

Morgan! ThatÂ´s right, IÂ´ll remember that one of these days. I was there watching. Black T-Shirt and Khaki shorts. They introduced me as Rulon (real name). IÂ´ll actually say hi this time

Duke Icefalcon · Post by **Duke Icefalcon** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:28 pm

We can help you out with the mail, armor and helms that you might be looking for. Much of it is in stock or can be made in a reasonable time.

www.icefalcon.com

Baron Conal · Post by **Baron Conal** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:21 am

Aside from the fact that I like 14th century armor
( so I'm admitting a bias right from the start )

EVERYTHING the SCA uses as a weapon no matter what we
call it is a mass weapon.

The glancing surfaces of later 14th century armor ( and later
periods as well ) were made to deal with that kind of impact.

Russ Mitchell · Post by **Russ Mitchell** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:10 am

If you take Kenrec's idea and do something Central European, I"ll be happy to help. 14c Hungarian stuff lets you mix and match while looking seriously pretty for the wife/girls.

It's so cool that even the Chinese have noticed:
http://www.danstopicals.com/hungarianchronicle.htm

Urban · Post by **Urban** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:53 am

After much consideration and consultation, I've decided on a early 12th century Kievan Rus persona. Here's a quick overview of what I've decided/am working on.

Name: Borislav Voikin, Vnuk Bel Volkovich (which translates to "noble soldier, grandson (of the) white wolf"; all names are within the 11-12th century period.

Born 1094 AD in Kiev during the reign of Sviatopolk II of Kiev. Younger Druzhina to a knyaz during the reign of Sviatopolk's successor Vladimir Monomakh II.

Hard Kit

Helm along the lines of Prince Yaroslav, Nikolskoie, etc...
Lamellar Body
Kolchuga (mail shirt)
Naruch (bazubands)
Hidden legs under baggy pants
SCAdian gorget & hand protection.
Turnshoes & Winningas on the legs.
Podzor (basically a gambeson)
Kite shield

Soft Kit
Who knows? Haven't crossed that bridge yet!

I'm basing alot of my gear on descriptions from http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/Armor/armor.html which is a bit later period, but from what I gather most (if not all) should still work for the earlier period.

Of course this all isn't going to happen at once, for the time being most of my armour will be hidden plastic, but at least now I have a set goal to work towards.

Donngal · Post by **Donngal** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:46 pm

Good choice, I suppose. lol
I would try for whatever you find yourself comfortable in and go with it.

I would really follow some of Sir Zygmunts advice, borrow some armour get out to practice.
I have a garage full of helmets, my squire has bins of loaner gear.

This way when you do start getting the look you be able to back it up a bit.
Plus the summers can be harsh even at night and you want to be prepared physically for that.

The more you get to know the guys at practice the more they inclined they are to help with what you need.
Plus you know where the shop is.

Donngal