Who are today's Big Sticks?

[Sigifrith Hauknefr]

Have you pondered the fact that is Duke Jade of Starfall.

Just for the record - Jade and I and a few others had a discussion related to this the other night.

1) We estimate that Jade has put in over 10,000 hours of helmet time. I estimate my own at roughly 1500 hours in 10+ years (many of the years not particularly serious)

2) Jade, when he was young, had a graveyard shift job at a copy place where he would load the copier and do 6-8 hours of pell work PER DAY with breaks to reload the machine. I don't know how many years he did this.

We concluded that 100% of the SCA fighters who have won 15 crowns all worked in copy shops!

This is not to say that we all start tabula rasa. There are clear physical advantages in height, strength, reflexes, coordination, athleticism, previous martial arts training, innate combat sense ("street fighters"), etc. etc. - but the fact remains that fighting is 90% skill - skill that must be trained and practiced diligently for years. Talents and gifts don't really matter that much in the long run.

[Blaine de Navarre]

We concluded that 100% of the SCA fighters who have won 15 crowns all worked in copy shops!

Hey, good news for me! I worked in a copy shop, and I only have 15 Crowns to go

[Kilkenny]

Out of curiosity, who here wants to get so good their name gets mentioned on these lists?
Who thinks it's an achievable goal before they start to get too old or out of shape?

I like to think that there was a time when I was worthy of mention on such a list. But there wasn't an internet yet

[dukelogan]

no disrespect intended, but looking at total numbers of reigns in jades case means little. unless im wrong we are looking at a total of four months from winning crown to stepping down. given those requirments i would be at 16 this reign and ive only lost two crowns ive fought in.

again, nothing to do with a persons skill and i hold jade in high regard. but the number of crowns is irrelevant given how short some are. winning crown to stepping down in most kingdoms is one year.

regards
logan

Have you pondered the fact that is Duke Jade of Starfall.

Just for the record - Jade and I and a few others had a discussion related to this the other night.

1) We estimate that Jade has put in over 10,000 hours of helmet time. I estimate my own at roughly 1500 hours in 10+ years (many of the years not particularly serious)

2) Jade, when he was young, had a graveyard shift job at a copy place where he would load the copier and do 6-8 hours of pell work PER DAY with breaks to reload the machine. I don't know how many years he did this.

We concluded that 100% of the SCA fighters who have won 15 crowns all worked in copy shops!

This is not to say that we all start tabula rasa. There are clear physical advantages in height, strength, reflexes, coordination, athleticism, previous martial arts training, innate combat sense ("street fighters"), etc. etc. - but the fact remains that fighting is 90% skill - skill that must be trained and practiced diligently for years. Talents and gifts don't really matter that much in the long run.

[Sigifrith Hauknefr]

no disrespect intended, but looking at total numbers of reigns in jades case means little. unless im wrong we are looking at a total of four months from winning crown to stepping down. given those requirments i would be at 16 this reign and ive only lost two crowns ive fought in.

again, nothing to do with a persons skill and i hold jade in high regard. but the number of crowns is irrelevant given how short some are. winning crown to stepping down in most kingdoms is one year.

Westerners are Crown Prince for 6-10 weeks, typically. Plus a 4 month reign. And yes, Westerners have more opportunity to fight in crown even when they win (2/year instead of 1), and would even get a couple months off.

BUT I don't understand your point here... I was just saying that Jade was not (necessarily) an example of "giftedness" - in response to another poster. The 15 crowns = copy shop was just a joke, I was not attempting to use it as a raw measure of prowess.

Unless your point was that you worked in a copy shop too? And were protesting the arbitratry cut off at 15? j/k, of course...

[dukelogan]

funny thing is that i actually did work at a printer for about 4 months when i moved to columbia sc a year and a half ago. seriously...


logan

no disrespect intended, but looking at total numbers of reigns in jades case means little. unless im wrong we are looking at a total of four months from winning crown to stepping down. given those requirments i would be at 16 this reign and ive only lost two crowns ive fought in.

again, nothing to do with a persons skill and i hold jade in high regard. but the number of crowns is irrelevant given how short some are. winning crown to stepping down in most kingdoms is one year.

Westerners are Crown Prince for 6-10 weeks, typically. Plus a 4 month reign. And yes, Westerners have more opportunity to fight in crown even when they win (2/year instead of 1), and would even get a couple months off.

BUT I don't understand your point here... I was just saying that Jade was not (necessarily) an example of "giftedness" - in response to another poster. The 15 crowns = copy shop was just a joke, I was not attempting to use it as a raw measure of prowess.

Unless your point was that you worked in a copy shop too? And were protesting the arbitratry cut off at 15? j/k, of course...

[Balin D'Acier]

Screw this career thing, I'm putting an application into Kinko's right now.

[St. George]

I used to fix the Xerox machine in our library when I was in college. Not quite the same, and I guess why I have only won twice

g-

[Dmitriy]

Apparently, it's somethng about copiers, not printers. Cause I fixed a lot of printers back in the day, and only managed to sqeak out a coronet or two so far.

-D

[Harefoot]

Who do you think are the best lefties in the known world? I am from AEthelmearc (and a lefty myself). While we have some very talented left handed fighters, we seem to have fewer than some of the other kingdoms (notably Atlantia).

Also, how do you think the best lefties match up against the best right handed fighters - is it an advantage or disadvantage?

[Thorstenn]

I dont believe there is any advantage for a Left handed fighter once you fight people at a certain level. Skill is skill.

Thor.

P.S. Duke Cosmo Craven is pretty good (lefty)

Who do you think are the best lefties in the known world? I am from AEthelmearc (and a lefty myself). While we have some very talented left handed fighters, we seem to have fewer than some of the other kingdoms (notably Atlantia).

Also, how do you think the best lefties match up against the best right handed fighters - is it an advantage or disadvantage?

[Hrolfr]

Who do you think are the best lefties in the known world? I am from AEthelmearc (and a lefty myself). While we have some very talented left handed fighters, we seem to have fewer than some of the other kingdoms (notably Atlantia).

Also, how do you think the best lefties match up against the best right handed fighters - is it an advantage or disadvantage?

If you can find it, watch a bit of the action between HG Brannos and HG Rangvaldr at the (I believe) 2005 Candlemass Finals.

Not only a righty v lefty, but both really good, and they practice with each other pretty regularly.

Oh yeah, and Dilan is fun to watch, too

[Eduard]

I dont believe there is any advantage for a Left handed fighter once you fight people at a certain level. Skill is skill.

Thor.

P.S. Duke Cosmo Craven is pretty good (lefty)

Yes he is. Current Crown Prince of Atenveldt even. Cannot wait to edit the video of our last crown and post the fight he and I had. It was a burn-burner.

[Thorstenn]

I was not told of this, Congrats to HRH Craven. I met him at Pennsic a few years ago and had a great time fighting with him in pic ups. He has a good personality as well.

Must have been a hell of a fight, your pretty good yourself.

Thor.

I dont believe there is any advantage for a Left handed fighter once you fight people at a certain level. Skill is skill.

Thor.

P.S. Duke Cosmo Craven is pretty good (lefty)

Yes he is. Current Crown Prince of Atenveldt even. Cannot wait to edit the video of our last crown and post the fight he and I had. It was a burn-burner.

[Jean Paul de Sens]

You know, having fought all 3 of you (Thorsten, Ed, Craven) I can unequivocally say that you *all* are hella-fights!

Craven's sombrero defense, Fast Eddies blistering speed, Thorsten's cleverness....

good times... good times....
ok, that's it... I'm going to Pennsic...

I've missed everyone too much, and Gulf Wars is too much work...

JP

[metalmasher]

i have read this list a few times now and i don't see anyone from Meridies. Being i am down here now can some one make a short list ( like 3) of ppl to try to fight.

thanks

[Thorstenn]

Well the top 5 in Meridies IMO are Duke Alienon (Get a name I can spell your Grace ) HRH Godwine, Duke Maximillion (Max), Sir Gunther(Count or Duke I cant remember) , HRM Seth of Newcastle. All good fighters. I dont know HRH personally but the rest I call Friend.

Thor.

i have read this list a few times now and i don't see anyone from Meridies. Being i am down here now can some one make a short list ( like 3) of ppl to try to fight.

thanks

[Thorstenn]

If GW is to much work you are in the wrong camp my friend. Or Move to Florida and become a Trimarian ( Zephy's recommendation )

I do hope to see you at Pennsic, maybe we can fight on the same side again. As you are a man of high regard I would side by side with you.

Thor.

You know, having fought all 3 of you (Thorsten, Ed, Craven) I can unequivocally say that you *all* are hella-fights!

Craven's sombrero defense, Fast Eddies blistering speed, Thorsten's cleverness....

good times... good times....
ok, that's it... I'm going to Pennsic...

I've missed everyone too much, and Gulf Wars is too much work...

JP

[Malcolm_Mor]

Duke Aleighnan makes it look casual. Duke Valhalric is wicked fast. And Count Alaric in the Midrealm is one of the most efficient fighters I have faced - he doesn't so much as blink and it accomplishes something.

And get a spear in his hand, Master Rin Ravenfoe is death incarnate on a battlefield.

[DarkApprentice]

You know, having fought all 3 of you (Thorsten, Ed, Craven) I can unequivocally say that you *all* are hella-fights!

Craven's sombrero defense, Fast Eddies blistering speed, Thorsten's cleverness....

good times... good times....
ok, that's it... I'm going to Pennsic...

I've missed everyone too much, and Gulf Wars is too much work...

JP

Throw a hitch in your shots against Craven when he goes for the Sombrero. Like a pop and go or a change-up. You have to set it up though. Not like he can't blast you if you let your guard down, but from what my sources say, it seems to be one of the only things that works against him!

DA

[Duke Uther]

no disrespect intended, but looking at total numbers of reigns in jades case means little. unless im wrong we are looking at a total of four months from winning crown to stepping down. given those requirments i would be at 16 this reign and ive only lost two crowns ive fought in.

again, nothing to do with a persons skill and i hold jade in high regard. but the number of crowns is irrelevant given how short some are. winning crown to stepping down in most kingdoms is one year.

regards
logan

Have you pondered the fact that is Duke Jade of Starfall.

Just for the record - Jade and I and a few others had a discussion related to this the other night.

1) We estimate that Jade has put in over 10,000 hours of helmet time. I estimate my own at roughly 1500 hours in 10+ years (many of the years not particularly serious)

2) Jade, when he was young, had a graveyard shift job at a copy place where he would load the copier and do 6-8 hours of pell work PER DAY with breaks to reload the machine. I don't know how many years he did this.

We concluded that 100% of the SCA fighters who have won 15 crowns all worked in copy shops!

This is not to say that we all start tabula rasa. There are clear physical advantages in height, strength, reflexes, coordination, athleticism, previous martial arts training, innate combat sense ("street fighters"), etc. etc. - but the fact remains that fighting is 90% skill - skill that must be trained and practiced diligently for years. Talents and gifts don't really matter that much in the long run.

This is just a few things that come to mind, I do not think Logan meant any disrespect. How could I not give the West a little love though I would love to hear what make other Crowns tough? I may not agree that I makes it tough, but I love to hear about differences. I love Crown tourney


A Western Crown is roughly 6 month commitment, shorter time commitment than all other kingdoms. I did want to point out things that make a West Crown a bad place to pick up 15 reigns. We have many super Dukes fighting in any given Crown and many more combatants than most. The Largest list I fought in and won was the 1st Crown I won, 97 fighters with 45 odd Knights, plus 3 Dukes all wanting some strawberry sauce. In the West, we may have more Crowns a year, but Dukes win them. Un-belts do not make finials, but once in a blue moon and we have to wait years sometimes to see a first time King. To win Crown normally you need to take down a Western Duke, if you plan to upset the system and the Super Dukes do not like that idea . I was a pain in the ass hard case Squire when I fought Duke Fabian in finals and won as a unbelt. We do not get unbelted Kings here, we Have three in 44 odd years. Duke Jade, Duke Stephen and My self. The average number of fighters is 75 currently or so, in the West, 30 to 40 plus Knights is normal. If we have a soft looking Crown list people go put their armor on. We hate to see small or soft lists in the West.

The rounds are NOT fought two out three, but straight double elimination for the day, reset in finials best two out three. The better fighter can often get popped by “squire hot stickâ€

[Jean Paul de Sens]

Uther, I'm envious of the West Kingdom's 4 month reigns, as in my mind it directly benefits the fighting culture.

We typically have 30-40 fighters in Ansteorra, and there is a strong sense of don't fight unless you can do the job if you win. With the expectations of putting around 15,000 miles of driving in during a reign (that's 2000 for a major war + around 400 miles round trip for 3 out of 4 weekends for 10 months), the $6000+ dollars in gas cost can be a bit of a daunting effect, and will cause those who might otherwise strive for it to deem not to.

If our reigns were shorter, more would be able to feel that they could afford it, and more would compete. That would make our crowns tougher, and I agree with you, the tougher the crown, the better the kingdom fights.

JP

[Stephen du Bois]

Jean Paul de Sens wrote:

We typically have 30-40 fighters in Ansteorra, and there is a strong sense of don't fight unless you can do the job if you win. With the expectations of putting around 15,000 miles of driving in during a reign (that's 2000 for a major war + around 400 miles round trip for 3 out of 4 weekends for 10 months)

400 miles ONE way won't get you to a lot of the places the you need to go in Northshield.

Stephen

[Arminius]

We typically have 30-40 fighters in Ansteorra, and there is a strong sense of don't fight unless you can do the job if you win. With the expectations of putting around 15,000 miles of driving in during a reign (that's 2000 for a major war + around 400 miles round trip for 3 out of 4 weekends for 10 months), the $6000+ dollars in gas cost can be a bit of a daunting effect, and will cause those who might otherwise strive for it to deem not to.

I don't want to throw this thread off of the rails, but from your above statement it makes it seem as though your kingdom does not have a travel fund for TRM?

[Payn]

"in my kingdom!"



Seriously, driven 20+ hours one way to go to a shire event in Antir. I am in "kingdom core".

[Stephen du Bois]

Travel funds very GREATLY from Kingdom to Kingdom.. the Northshield budget for this is very small. Your travel fund is dependent on funraising efforts during your heirship and reign.

Stephen

[Kilkenny]

Jean Paul de Sens wrote:

We typically have 30-40 fighters in Ansteorra, and there is a strong sense of don't fight unless you can do the job if you win. With the expectations of putting around 15,000 miles of driving in during a reign (that's 2000 for a major war + around 400 miles round trip for 3 out of 4 weekends for 10 months)

400 miles ONE way won't get you to a lot of the places the you need to go in Northshield.

Stephen

chuckle. It won't in Texas either. There's a real issue in terms of the burden in both time and money for many kingdoms. The East, today, after three kingdoms have split off, still runs from Delaware to Newfoundland. I'm not aware of the Eastern Crown ever making the trek to the group there (I won't try to spell the name )

[Jean Paul de Sens]

We typically have 30-40 fighters in Ansteorra, and there is a strong sense of don't fight unless you can do the job if you win. With the expectations of putting around 15,000 miles of driving in during a reign (that's 2000 for a major war + around 400 miles round trip for 3 out of 4 weekends for 10 months), the $6000+ dollars in gas cost can be a bit of a daunting effect, and will cause those who might otherwise strive for it to deem not to.

I don't want to throw this thread off of the rails, but from your above statement it makes it seem as though your kingdom does not have a travel fund for TRM?

They do. It's around (IIRC) $1500 per reign. But as I've pointed out, that doesn't defray a lot.

JP

[Grimr Hvitulfsson Ulfhamr]

400 miles ONE way won't get you to a lot of the places the you need to go in Northshield.

Stephen

We win In Drachenwald you have to fly or go on a ship to reach most groups. Since the kingdom spreads from Iceland to South Africa, it's a long way to travel, if you want to be an active king

[Gunthar]

A couple of notes.
Yes, the Crown gets $1500 for a reign but that is for the entire reign and all espenses. If you have to pay for storage for the kingdom trailer, it comes out of that. Gas, motels, storage pretty much anything is taken out of that. The kingdom does pay the entry fees to Gulf Wars and Pennsic but the Heirs must pay their own way or use part of the $1500. There is also a mileage payment the kingdom will give the Crown for Pennsic or GW.

We are doing the long reign since we have moved Crown list. I won Crown the last week of July and we won't step down until the weekend before Memorial Day. I'd have to ask my Queen how many miles we have travelled so far but we are rather lucky in that we live pretty much in the center of Ansteorra so that helps a bit. She thinks we may have put close to 10,000 miles on her car so far.

We have been lucky in that we haven't had to dip into the Kingdom fund yet. We've managed to pay for everything ourselves.

Now, to get back on the subject. While I have a great amount of respect for the Western Dukes, especially Uther, I also don't feel that the number of Crown wins should be an indicator of "best". It is definately an indicator of skill, no doubt. But I would put Inman in his prime against pretty much anyone and won "only" 5 Crowns. The man who is arguably the best fighter hasn't won a Crown. It used to be very annoying to me that I could go out and routinely beat dukes but couldn't seem to win that second tournament. (No, I certainly DON'T place myself in the class of one of the "Best fighters in the SCA". I still have a long way to go to ever hope to be included even in the nebulous group of names.)

There are so many factors on what determines the "best fighter". Even if you got all the top sticks in the Society together, determined strict blow calling and armor standards, etc... and then they all fight it out it won't determine the "best", just the best that day. Maybe over a week a real
hierarchy would develop. And I would love to be on the sidelines of that.

But there is definately a group of fighters I consider Top Tier and will happily just fit them into this big group.
Just like there is a group of probably 5 or 6 fighters in Ansteorra who are Top Tier for the region. I don't think any of them are the best fighter because they can all take each other on any given day.

[Duke Icefalcon]

Jean Paul de Sens wrote:

We typically have 30-40 fighters in Ansteorra, and there is a strong sense of don't fight unless you can do the job if you win. With the expectations of putting around 15,000 miles of driving in during a reign (that's 2000 for a major war + around 400 miles round trip for 3 out of 4 weekends for 10 months)

400 miles ONE way won't get you to a lot of the places the you need to go in Northshield.

Stephen

chuckle. It won't in Texas either. There's a real issue in terms of the burden in both time and money for many kingdoms. The East, today, after three kingdoms have split off, still runs from Delaware to Newfoundland. I'm not aware of the Eastern Crown ever making the trek to the group there (I won't try to spell the name )

Your Grace brings up a great point. Most folks do not realize that the geographical center of our kingdom is Nova Scotia. It is about 40 hours travel from top to bottom.

I went to Newfoundland during my first reign. It was a hoot! 14 foot of standing snow on the ground. Driving through tunnels of snow to get from place to place; and some of the warmest Canadian women I have ever met....

[Duke Icefalcon]

But back on track again-

With due respect to some of the other Kingdoms and their super dukes (many of whom I hold in high regard); the East has it's share of outstanding world class fighters.

Sir Stephan von Dresden - Possibly the best of all of us in the known world. I have not seen him fight anyone he could not beat, period.

Duke Lucan Von Drachenklaue - Our newest Kingdom Champion. Never count this man out.

King Darius - Will go out and win just about any tourney he wants bad enough. Very technical fighter.

Duke Brion Tarragon - Former Aten King, but he is OUR Duke now... . I think he has done 10 reigns, including a few in the East.

Duke Gregor

Duke Balfar

Graf Konrad

Count Griffith

Sir Kenrick of Warwick

These are some of the best in our Kingdom and one will probably follow me and win our next crown. All of these Knights will stand well against their peers in the known world.

[Gunthar]

Sounds wonderful! I would love to go up for a visit.
And this isn't sarcasm. I've always wanted to visit Nova Scotia.

[Sir Maynard]

Your Highness,

I think everyone else would also include yourself in the list of the best fighters in the East. Let me add that for you:

Sir Stephan von Dresden
Duke Lucan Von Drachenklaue
King Darius
Duke Brion Tarragon
Duke Gregor
Duke Balfar
Graf Konrad
Count Griffith
Sir Kenrick of Warwick
Prince Andreas Eisfalke

These are truly great fighters and could all hold their own against the rest of the known world.

Maynard

[DukeSean]

Duke Brion Tarragon - Former Aten King, but he is OUR Duke now...

Your Highness is lucky to have him. But, there are a number of excellent fighters in Artemisia who would gladly take up contest to claim him for our own.

And for the record, he has twice reigned in the East Kingdom. He also served the Aten thrones 8 times including 5 reigns back-to-back.