Indian Personas

Leopold der Wolf · Post by **Leopold der Wolf** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:17 pm

(From the country of India)

Anyone seen this done before or have pictures? Always been kinda curious to try and build some Indian armor. Its got a neat stylistic look thats different from Islamic and European.

I've got one picture of an ancient Indian warrior women who fought with a kidney belt, basket hilted long sword and a strapped round shield. Makes you think lol.

These are the only real pictures I have of full kits. If you've seen anymore please post.

Eirik · Post by **Eirik** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:43 pm

I'll check with our India team at work tomorrow and see what they can point me to.

That is cool armor!

Benedek · Post by **Benedek** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:03 pm

Check out "mughal armor" and see what you find with a google search.

In the meantime heres a pic for you to ogle over.

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:09 am

Whats cool is you can buy that stuff

now

i don't mean repo's i mean the real thing

fitting it??

Thats another question.

Bleddyn De Caldicot · Post by **Bleddyn De Caldicot** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:39 am

How late or early are you thinking. I'm trying to hunt down some pre-Mughal stuff at the moment. Not armourwise but I can post some pictures of a 13th century fortified mosque I visited yesterday.

Glaukos the Athenian · Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:22 am

Krishna and Arjuna in a vignette from the Bhagavad Gita....
Pre Moghul armour...

Krishna and Arjuna blowing their battle-conchs. Notice the shape of Arjuna's helmet, pointed like a bascinet to avoid straight shots to the head. Notice the spauders, vanbraces and tiny bracelet rare-braces....
[img]http://larryavisbrown.homestead.com/files/krishna_arjuna_conchshells.jpg[/img]

Nice front view, showing the spaulders hinged to the sides of the breastplate by means of slots on both pieces joined by strips of metal bent like flat rings

No gambeson with 100 degrees in the shade in India....

At least for the early side you could try this.... just don't paint yourself blue... notice Krishna is NOT wearing armor because he does not need it...

And no, I don't think Deepeeka is making the breastplate or the helmet yet, but it would not hurt asking....

Edited: Oh Yeah! MC Hammer Indian pants can hide nicely any stealth leg armour you may wish to wear....

Rowan

Adeliz · Post by **Adeliz** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:49 am

Sorry kinda late to this thread, but found it while looking for something else.

I'm working on a 11-14th C Indian persona too, and the BEST resource I could have ever asked for are the very patient ladies of the SCA_India list on yahoo groups. Come on over, we don't bite.

As for armour, I've been looking for a lot of that too, all pre-Mughal, and not finding a lot, but I'd be really curious to know the dates on the paintings that others have posted. The unfortunate thing about "Mughal" is that the Mughal empire extended far after 1600, so just because something says "Mughal" doesn't mean it is period for our purposes. Granted it doesn't mean that is NOT either, but just something to keep in mind.

LOGOS · Post by **LOGOS** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:31 am

Great - go for it. India has a great, ancient martial tradition that I know not nearly enough about. I'd love to see more. So what if you don't get it right for a while, who does?

Andeerz · Post by **Andeerz** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:11 pm

http://www.hinduwisdom.info/War_in_Ancient_India.htm

Well, I did a cursory search on the interwebs and came across this neat website. There's some pretty cool info there, but most of the images pertain to ancient India, though there may be some info on later stuff, especially fighting styles like Kalaripayyattu which a persona of the type described in this thread would very likely use on the battlefield.

Also, side note, according to my martial arts teacher, Guro Jeff Westfall (and he really knows his shit) a lot of technologies, martial traditions, and martial arts throughout the west, east, and especially southeast asia, likely have very deeply entrenched roots in India.

On the subject of fighting style, a very close cousin to Kalaripayyattu(sp?) is Krabi Krabong, the precursor to Muay Thai. Kalari and Krabi both have similar weapons styles, and Krabi Krabong is taught in the United States by some very reputable people who I could point whoever is interested towards. These arts have been used for many centuries and from what I have read are very appropriate styles for warriors of the time period and location you are looking for. Also cool is that these arts are still alive and kicking (no pun intended), and those who teach it might be a good resource for finding out more about period armour, arms, etc.

On the topic of armour, if you have trouble finding Indian stuff, I'd say the next closest thing would be Thai. Then again, I am not the most qualified person to make this statement. >.> If I have time, I'll look some stuff up for reals.

Diglach Mac Cein · Post by **Diglach Mac Cein** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:21 pm

India had a very pronounced martial influance on the surrounding cultures, especially where Buddhism took hold.

.

Maeryk · Post by **Maeryk** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:26 pm

I wouldn't count on that being a basket-hilted sword. Closest is a Pata, but that points the wrong way.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and think that might just be a hand-covering extending from the Bazu.

Adeliz · Post by **Adeliz** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:41 pm

Also, it is very important that you figure out where in India you are looking. For example, Northern India (unter the Mughal influence) at some point got maille... but I'm pretty sure that never really made it to the southern part of Deccan.

And the style of the photos posted has kinda been bugging me. I'm pretty sure they are all post-period. Maybe drawn of something in period, but it doesn't seem to jive quite with the style I've been looking at in my research.

Check out the SCA_India mailing list photogallery here: http://india.generalism.net/main.php?g2_itemId=14 No armour, but gives some awesome pictures and ideas.

Baron Alejandro · Post by **Baron Alejandro** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:55 pm

Check out 'Indian Arms & Armour' by G.N. Pant. Has everything you want to know. You want Vol. 2, which is relevant to the Society's period.

If you're going to do it, do it up <i>right!</i> And post pics!

Bleddyn De Caldicot · Post by **Bleddyn De Caldicot** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:38 am

Those images are modern. They are the kind of drawings you see in very modern and tacky temples here in India. Before the Mughals the local warriors of Northern India were Turks and Afghans as well as the Rajput. I have been trying to find information on the armour worn in pre-Mughal India during my trip here. All the surviving armour I have seen is 16th century to 18th century. In sculptures I have looked at from 6th century to 14th century there has been no armour. These usually depict gods who are never wearing armour. As I mentioned earlier in the thread the best I have is a large wardooresque shield. The hand covering is likely 15th century or later since all the swords in the sculptures are straight and have a crossgaurd (usually pointing downwards).