Plateau Effect, begging for help

Malcolmthebold · Post by **Malcolmthebold** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:59 pm

I live in an area with a small population. I feel as though my skill level has hit a plateau. I am by no means the most skilled fighter in the area, but I am one of the better sticks in the shire. Are there any suggestions as to how I claw my way through this level of slowed advancement?

Blaine de Navarre · Post by **Blaine de Navarre** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:07 pm

Make some ridiculous change to your style. Fight only single-sword; fight off-handed; fight single-sword offhanded; trade your heater for a buckler. Do it until you're at least 3/4 of your current skill level with your primary form.

Jess · Post by **Jess** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:15 pm

Travel.

freiman the minstrel · Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:20 pm

I am going to suggest five things. Your mileage may vary.

First, up the ferocity. This is the quickest, and least rewarding way to "Level up". Really, most of us are fighting at about forty to sixty percent of max. Give it your all, and be brutal about it. This is particularly hard to do in a local fighter practice environment. Make it a priority.

Second, up your basic fitness level. This is the second quickest, and the second least effective. You should include basic fitness in any plan for improvement. It's limited, but it is the solid base that you need to build the rest upon. Change up your workout on a regular basis. Eight weeks seems standard, but vary it according to your own needs.

Third, start a solid, long term plan for improvement. Practice on your pell every day. Change the particulars of your plan every eight weeks, with a one week transition period

Forth, shake up your fighting. Adopt a style you don't use. Change your shield, or put it away entirely. Fight with your off hand. Beware, however, this can throw off your mental/emotional/x-factor progress. Be aware of that, and the damage will be minimized.

Fifth, and finally, travel, and bring in new blood. Find the nearest fighter practice with Big Sticks, and make a monthly pilgrimage. Bring in fighters from nearby groups. For this, it helps if they are good, but ANYBODY you don't fight on a regular basis helps. There is no substitute for hat time with the big guns.

And don't give up the struggle. Committing to doing what it takes is the first step. The space between making the commitment and seeing any results is a rough one.

Trust me on that one.

But believe in the end product. The method is sure to work.

You will become a better fighter.

f

Malcolmthebold · Post by **Malcolmthebold** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:22 pm

Travel.

Ahh the dreaded travel word. I do, as much as family, jobs, and cash flow will allow. I agree that this is the ultimate answer to my question, but I am hoping for some things I might do at the practice I can show up to every week.

Amanda M · Post by **Amanda M** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:26 pm

This guy works two jobs and has a year old baby of ultimate cuteness at home. The fact that he has the energy to fight, help armor new guys and stuff amazes me.

Angusm0628 · Post by **Angusm0628** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:28 pm

Malcolmthebold wrote:
Travel.

Ahh the dreaded travel word. I do, as much as family, jobs, and cash flow will allow. I agree that this is the ultimate answer to my question, but I am hoping for some things I might do at the practice I can show up to every week.

Hate to break it to ya but this is pretty much the only way to up your game to any real effect.
You fight a regular set of folks and gotten your "Size of fish in this particular pond" status/plateau. Unless you enlarge the body of water to a lake or sea, you are never going to get much beyond where you are.

Malcolmthebold · Post by **Malcolmthebold** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:40 pm

K. Traveling is the key. something that was just said however did catch my interest. Up my ferocity level. just this weekend I was talking with a couple of guys from out of my area at an event. they told me I needed to "be less nice. you don't need to go completly to the dark side, but be less nice." this confused me, and when I talked with my knight he seemed a little confused himself. any thoughts on how to be less nice or techniques to up my ferocity?

P.S. thanks for the words there 'Bella. We did pell night last night, and i think i may have to work tonight, so i don't know if anyone will be available for pell work. if i have the night off i will give you a call, otherwise if you wanna swing wood, give Dougal a call.

Diglach Mac Cein · Post by **Diglach Mac Cein** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:45 pm

Maybe not travel MORE - travel differently.

Go to tournaments you haven't attended before. Or to a region / kingdom you've not visited in a while. Even if it means skipping the tourney next door.

You might travel LESS, trading for greater distance/opportunity.

Next event in your area, invite someone from another area to attend, and host them at your place. If you can't go out, bring them in!

Malcolmthebold · Post by **Malcolmthebold** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:49 pm

Dilan Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:45 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe not travel MORE - travel differently.

Go to tournaments you haven't attended before. Or to a region / kingdom you've not visited in a while. Even if it means skipping the tourney next door.

You might travel LESS, trading for greater distance/opportunity.

Next event in your area, invite someone from another area to attend, and host them at your place. If you can't go out, bring them in!

this i like

bkillian · Post by **bkillian** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:17 pm

I'm from a small Isolated group as well. At the moment we have 2 active fighters. A large practice for us was when we could have 4 people in armour. The next best practice until my Knight moved closer was at his house 4 hrs away. Now he's only an hour away so its not so bad. When I had reached that point of stagnation, I started to take on two on one, and three on one fights. I also would practice throwing only one or two shots during a given practice and to make it interesting I would let the guys know before hand that I was only going to throw a flat snap to the head or and offside leg. And when I would throw those shots I would only throw them when I could hit a specific rivet on the helm or a spot on the leg. It makes you work allot harder to accomplish the same goal when the other guy knows what you are going to do ahead of time.I would also work on specific combinations and work on controlling the fight not just being a participant.Think of it as adding more weight to the bar once you have maxed out your reps.

I disagree with changing weapons forms to make things "interesting" I find that people should master one thing before they move on to another.I would rather have fighter beside me that had spent all last year fighting nothing but Sword and shield than the guy who changes weapons every bout. There is only a limited time that we are in armour. The more of that time you use on other forms than your chosen the less time you have on your chosen form. There is a reason professional athletes play positions, and soldiers have individual training. The basic core principles of timing, range control and movement apply no mater what the form, and it is easier to master them when you are only working on one form.

There is no substitute for travel but applying these training techniques in practice are a big part of what helped me over that last hump to bring my fighting to chiv level.

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:17 pm

WHEN you travel, hunt hats and belts.

Make the most of your fighting time, go after the knights/masters, counts, and dukes. fight your hardest and ask advice from each fight.

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:40 pm

The reason to alter weapons forms is not to "make things more interesting" but to give a change in perspective that can prove valuable for breaking out of the plateau. It is not a universal cure-all, but it can be quite effective. Especially for the person who has been practicing the same things with the same form very diligently for a long time and ... is stuck precisely because they're doing the same things...

Your suggestions offer a different way of doing the same thing.

I would say that "ferocity" and "not being nice" aren't really the same thing. Replace "ferocity" with "intensity" and I think you probably have a more useful concept. You don't need blood and gore and veins in your teeth - but you may need a highly concentrated focus on the task at hand - hitting the other fellow with a stick.

As to "not being nice" - that tends to translate better into being more intense. An intense fighter doesn't generally wait to find out what the opponent brought to the fight - They're too busy showing the other guy what they brought :twisted:

In terms of training techniques that might really help break one out of a plateau - I would recommend Vitus' Frozen Man drill. It can help you to see what opportunities are there above and beyond the ones you are comfortable with. Start stretching yourself to exploit those opportunities and you'll likely start moving up.

One more thing about plateaus. I've seen many fighters get stuck. They're at "X" level and they've been there for months, a year. And then one day, they're at Twice "X", with no transition bridge. All that time they appeared "stuck" they were in fact accumulating information/experience/understanding/conditioning/skill. And then one day, a synthesis happened and all that they had been accumulating came together. An apparent leap in growth, but they had really been progressing all along...

jester · Post by **jester** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:56 pm

Self-examination.

Make a list of every shot you throw. How often do you throw each shot? When do you throw them? Which ones get you the most kills? Do you get your kills off a single shot or off combinations? How do your shots fit into a system of identifying shots? What shots are you missing?

Where do you get hit the most? Do you get hit with single shots? Combinations? How can you improve your defense to make it harder for people to hit you in those places?

When you think you understand how you fight, explain it to someone else. Nothing focuses the mind quite like having to teach something to others.

Do a search on Kilkenny's posts to Freiman's thread. I think he put together a pretty damn succinct explanation of fighting: (to paraphrase) putting the stick on the target while moving. I'd add 'with sufficient power' to that phrase, but I'm pretty sure you can take that as a given. He suggested some excellent drills to help people learn to do exactly that.

Do a search on Frozen Man Targeting. This is Sir Vitus' training technique for helping people learn to compare relative positions and identify the targets that the stick needs to go on.

If you can't travel much then consider setting up a program where you go work with someone or have them come and work with you. You've got four or five fighters in your group? Pool some cash and bring in a new trainer once a month or every two months. Pool some cash and send one of you to a new place for a day and have them come back and pass on the information they've gathered.

Recent studies suggest what common sense and experience have always shown to be true: skill in a specific area is directly related to the quantity and quality of practice. Every bit of effort you put into your fighting will result in improvement. High quality effort will result in faster improvement.

maxntropy · Post by **maxntropy** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:45 pm

freiman the minstrel wrote:Really, most of us are fighting at about forty to sixty percent of max

Thanks, Freiman! :lol:

Kilkenny wrote:I would say that "ferocity" and "not being nice" aren't really the same thing. Replace "ferocity" with "intensity" and I think you probably have a more useful concept. You don't need blood and gore and veins in your teeth - but you may need a highly concentrated focus on the task at hand - hitting the other fellow with a stick.

But seriously, Rowan had started a thread called The Need to Dominate and Competitive Fighting which was based on a post in the thread On training: I'm Done vs. Exhaustion -- all of which generally described approaches to focus/concentration to get you to a mindframe of serious intent (intensity, or domination and ownership of the lists, if you will), which was further discussed in the thread Controlling Your Mind. The more often you fight with extreme intensity and ferocity, I believe the more you will push forward your technique and capabilities. If you fight comfortable (lazy, sloppy), you just aren't going to be pushing yourself forward.

Beyond that, I second much of what has been said. Travel different to travel smarter -- so that you may "fight-up" as much as is humanly possible. Contact those whom you respect and find-out when and where they might be fighting so that you can target those events/practices. Perhaps work with folks to create interesting new cross-regional training opportunities (like we have recently done with the East/Atlantia Interkingdom Fighter Practices).

Hope that proves of some use.

Max Von Halstern

freiman the minstrel · Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:28 pm

Malcolmthebold wrote: Up my ferocity level. just this weekend I was talking with a couple of guys from out of my area at an event. they told me I needed to "be less nice. you don't need to go completly to the dark side, but be less nice." this confused me, and when I talked with my knight he seemed a little confused himself. any thoughts on how to be less nice or techniques to up my ferocity?

You don't have to be "other than nice" to win. Letting somebody have a victory they don't deserve isn't nice.

It is encouraging, but it sure doesn't count as "nice". It gives them an unrealistic and, ultimately, self defeating, image of where they are. You are, in essence, lying to them about how hard it is. They won't recognize it consciously as a lie, but they will recognize it emotionally as one. It also breeds a really, really insidious problem in your own mindset.

Give your training buddies the benefit of your experience, and use that time to get your head right for victory. Do some "Training bouts" where they have a chance to win, and end every practice with "Tourney Bouts" where you picture them as people that are in your way on the road to victory. Be ferocious. During the "Real game" you are training your own mind.

Don't let yourself get into a mindset that says "If I don't let somebody win, they might quit, or they might not like me." Trust me, if you start getting into a mindset that actually sacrifices your own mental training for "approval" you will teach yourself to lose.

That is the way to develop your own mental problems with victory.

f

St. George · Post by **St. George** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:46 pm

Travel smart!

Find people you have something to learn from and make your traveling to see them specifically.

Pretty much any Knight would spend time with you at a practice if YOU DROVE TO COME SPECIFICALLY SEE THEM!

Find people who you can/want to learn from and politely ask if you can come visit them. PRACTICE and LEARN when you are with them, and then when you go home work on the things you learned.

Do this, and I think you will find them most welcoming, and you quickly get off your plateau.

Good luck!

g-

Malcolmthebold · Post by **Malcolmthebold** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:17 pm

An update to this thread. I posted this yesterday, and last night I recieved a phone call from one of the kingdom knights (out of our area even) saying "Any thing you need help with, you have it." I didn't expect that, but I am uber greatful. The suggestions I have gotten here have been very helpful, and in just the last 24 hours have prompted changes in my learning style. Thank you to everyone who contributed.

Amanda M · Post by **Amanda M** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:29 pm

I wish I'd have known you guys were going to practice again wednesday instead of tuesday I was so bored last night. >_<

Corby de la Flamme · Post by **Corby de la Flamme** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:03 am

Everyone has their "bread and butter" shots, the things they are most comfortable with, that work best for them in most situations.

You are bound to have them too.

Stop doing them.

When you practice, especially with people you know you can beat, concentrate on the blows you are not good at. Have a monster flat snap? Leave it on the sideline. Really bad at scorpion wraps? Do 30 of those in the fight.

Do you normally fight at range? Let your opponent control range, or go right up to A range with him.

I could go on, but I'm sure you get the idea.

All this stuff is my main advice for fighters who find themselves in a "can't hone a knife on butter" situation at their local practice.

Leo Medii · Post by **Leo Medii** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:49 am

Keep in mind that fighting is a journey with no end and no final destination. It is a long road with both curves and straight paths. It has steep up hill climbs and easy downhill glides. Sometimes it is an open field, and sometimes it is a tunnel.

In this journey, you alone control the wheel, and you alone choose the speed and dedication to the road.

I suggest you vary your intent on the path. Is it you are trying to master a certain KIND of weapon, or are you trying to BECOME the weapon. Many of my students have a difficult time with other teachers because they want the student to focus on mastering the weapon. I prefer my students to become the weapon.

Spend one practice picking up everything you can and make yourself the weapon and the thing you are holding an extension of yourself. See if that helps you look at fighting with a new viewpoint.

Malcolmthebold · Post by **Malcolmthebold** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:59 am

Do you normally fight at range? Let your opponent control range, or go right up to A range with him.

So I have been trying this. I usually fight on the outside. I prefer to throw shots while in motion. My youngest squire brother is just the opposite. He has no reverse gear. The past two practices I have told myself not to back off of him. The first week I tried not to give ground, I wasn't going to charge him, but I wasn't going to back off either. This resulted in me landing on my ass as he continued to press foreward. Just this last week I decided that I would press in on him. We ended up hugging alot, and twice when I tried to push past him on his shield side, I ended up eating his shield boss. I can roll to the side fairly effectivly (J-step, or incarta, or whatever you want to call it.) but i have a really hard time pushing foreward through an opponant.

no question there just a comment.

Blaine de Navarre · Post by **Blaine de Navarre** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:17 pm

Hey, Malcolm,

Sorry for the last minute notice, but if you're free this weekend why doncha bip on up to Vegas.

Malcolmthebold · Post by **Malcolmthebold** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:29 pm

Blaine de Navarre Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:17 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey, Malcolm,

Sorry for the last minute notice, but if you're free this weekend why doncha bip on up to Vegas.

Dougal and I are talking about making a Pigramage to Vegas a regular thing, but the next few weeks are bad. shire populous meeting, our tourney weekend, and then our spotlight event. by the way, we welcome all commers to our spotlight, and we sould have the king and a cadre of knights up for some good fighting. (unabashed plug there) What nights/days do you guys do your fighter practices, and is Sir Conrad still dishing out bruises up there?

Blaine de Navarre · Post by **Blaine de Navarre** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:42 pm

I'm not a Starkhafner myself, I was only talking about the specific training event this weekend.

AFAIK they practice most Sundays. Conrad hasn't been around much lately, but Sir Tearlach(sp?) and Master Korwyn are both good fights, and Tearlach's squire Simon, who occasionally posts here, doesn't suck.

Plateau Effect, begging for help

Plateau Effect, begging for help

Do what you do badly