What's the Deal with Combat Archery, ect?

Baron Alejandro · Post by **Baron Alejandro** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:39 pm

For every story about a combat archer behaving badly, there are ten about stickjocks.

Balin50 · Post by **Balin50** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:49 pm

Baron Alejandro wrote:For every story about a combat archer behaving badly, there are ten about stickjocks.

Well there are what 50-75+ heavy fighters to 1 CAer.

Balin
Aten 101
Fighters not Targets

Blackoak · Post by **Blackoak** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:19 pm

Audax, I look forward to meeting you as well, and I am always down with beer!

Baron Alejandro, I have the same disdain for heavy fighters that act without honor on the field also. Anyone with any weapons form. However, the story I related is an element that can only be done with a missile weapon. Someone without risk took from those that did. It is different.

Uric

Iohn deMar · Post by **Iohn deMar** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:29 pm

Unless there's some sort of safe manner to discard your bow, though, just drawing your seax and going at it is just plain stupid, and unsafe. A polearm is one thing, it's not under tension and if it breaks, well, it's replaceable. A bow is an expensive piece of equipment that is under a high degree of tension and could be very dangerous if broken and very expensive to replace.

Unless I'm wrong, a 40# bow can be had or made for very cheap. If you're going to be a COMBAT archer. Its irresponsible to take the field with a $250 bow.

And honestly, I've been shooting archer for a long time now. There is no reason why even a 35# bow couldn't be just as effective a weapon. From what I understand its not so much the power of the bow as the nature of the projectile.

I am 100% for archers getting bashed just like the heavies. Hence the term "combat" archer. It just doesn't make sense to be a CA and yield in the face of a heavy. Then you're more of a siege unit that an actual archer. Have them armor up just like everyone else. The only thing that might be awkward is the hand protection bit. That could get tricky...

Owyn · Post by **Owyn** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:41 pm

Blackoak wrote:While there are many aspects of CA that do add to our game, it is this type of behavior that sours it to many. I remember one vividly.

A few years ago at a Gulf Wars (when Gleann Abhann was still a Principality) we were doing the fort battle. A knight from inside the fort (I believe it was Sir Cona of Meridies came out and challenged Sir Seth (current Meridian king) to a spear duel. They fought and Sir Cona won the bout. As his side cheered and we also enjoyed this feat, a crossbow bolt shot out and killed Sir Cona before he even turned around to walk back. It took something away from a lot of us, and that type of behavior takes away an element of this game that I have found in no other hobby or martial art I have done. It was sad.

I don't want to hear what is 'realistic'. I have to deal with the realistic downward spiral of our civilization every day. This is the one place I want to see feats of honor. If the CA community can embrace that then they will have my support as a knight of the SCA. If they can't get this simple concept, then they will have me as a opponent.

Uric

I would *like* to think that if someone on my side pulled a stunt like that, that I wouldn't have to walk over and friendly-fire the crossbowman myself, because someone nearer would do it first.

That sort of behavior is unacceptable - from anyone in our combats, CA or not. Pass up a correction and you set a new standard. If people pull junk like that, SHOW your displeasure by forcibly ejecting them from the combat. With your sword.

Malcolm_Mor · Post by **Malcolm_Mor** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:52 pm

Baron Alejandro wrote:For every story about a combat archer behaving badly, there are ten about stickjocks.

Problem is you'll have to go through 20 or 30 other "stickjocks" before you will find one which will makes excuses for the behavior. You'll have to go through that many combat archers to find one who will condemn it.

Seth of Newcastle · Post by **Seth of Newcastle** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:28 pm

Blackoak wrote:Baron Alejandro, I have the same disdain for heavy fighters that act without honor on the field also. Anyone with any weapons form. However, the story I related is an element that can only be done with a missile weapon. Someone without risk took from those that did. It is different.

Uric

Sir Uric is correct, that behavior is frowned upon no matter what the weapon.

This year two brave ( and ok maybe a bit bored ) G.A. warriors, who had been legged, crawled their way to the front of the breach they were defending. Upon seeing them there, I backed our army off to offer them honorable combat. I called for two champions from our side to step forward . The mighty champions from G.A. were victorious. Before the cheering was even really beginning for their winning warriors and I was calling forth two more champions, I was stuck in the chest with an axe and my guard an arrow from within their lines. I am not sure what happened to those two, but many told me how despicable they thought it was and how sorry they were it happened.

It is unfortunate that a few CA'rs do such things and add fuel to the anti-CA fire.

Seth

ladyilsebet · Post by **ladyilsebet** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:59 pm

The thing that continually gets my goat about this is that, some days, no one seems to recognize that there ARE CA'ers out there who think the sort of behavior described above (re: Sir Cona) is just nasty awful mean. I do apologize if someone has said similar in this thread - I'm not trying to use this thread as an example, it's just something I seem to hear quite a bit.

I work in customer service, and I know that it's always the bad stories that get spread. But it's still frustrating. I hate to get lumped in with those fools who do such things on the field. What I would *love* to hear is, after a story such as above is told, for someone else to add their story of a CA'er who acted honorably on the field (such as telling someone not to take their shot).

Balin50 · Post by **Balin50** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:26 pm

Only one way for that to happen the CAer needs not to make any shotsadn to leave the bows/xbows on the target range.

Balin
Aten 101
Fighters not Targets

Blackoak · Post by **Blackoak** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:31 pm

Ilsebet, I know many honorable archers. In Gleann Abhann we have 2 knights that are premier crossbowmen. My knight, Viscount Eric of Chester, has been a champion of the CA community around here. He leads by example, puts himself at risk, and promotes honorable behavior with the weapons form.

I don't assume you are bad because you arch, I have done it in the past. Although now I will probably only arch in archery only scenarios.

Uric

Saritor · Post by **Saritor** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:37 pm

ladyilsebet wrote:The thing that continually gets my goat about this is that, some days, no one seems to recognize that there ARE CA'ers out there who think the sort of behavior described above (re: Sir Cona) is just nasty awful mean. I do apologize if someone has said similar in this thread - I'm not trying to use this thread as an example, it's just something I seem to hear quite a bit.

It does seem that way, but if you'll look at the trend of the threads -- even just on AA -- the problem is becoming "There needs to be more CA folks standing up against this behavior/policing their own/teaching people good behavior" instead of "All CAs act like this, and it sucks."

AEiric Orvender · Post by **AEiric Orvender** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:42 pm

ladyilsebet wrote:What I would *love* to hear is, after a story such as above is told, for someone else to add their story of a CA'er who acted honorably on the field (such as telling someone not to take their shot).

Oh thatâ€™s easy! Last Pennsic I was in a shield wall and the archers were harassing our spearmenâ€¦the sear just to my right wasnâ€™t paying attention to the archers when they shot, I raised my shied from my torso to block an arrow aimed at his head deflecting it, but the second archer, I thought, got me in the ribsâ€¦ As I went to fall the archer was waving franticly at me, holding a bolt, and mimicking it hitting him in the ribs sideways.

He (or she) was telling me their shot hit me side on and not to take the hit.

Oswyn_de_Wulferton · Post by **Oswyn_de_Wulferton** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:44 pm

In the same vein as above,

At GW a few years ago, I was fighting in the ravine battle with a spear, and a rather poofy shirt at the time. Felt a combat arrow zip by and barely tug on the shirt I was wearing (easily 8+" away from me, remember big shirt), and saw the combat archer kind of look at me and tilt their head. Not jumping up and down, screaming "I HIT YOU" or anything impolite, just letting me know rather subtly that they thought they had hit me and were wondering why I didn't fall down or head back to rez. I grabbed my shirt, pulled it back against my body and mimic-ed the arrow just grabbing the shirt. The archer politely nodded, and a min or so later I had an arrow from the same archer, middle of my chest. Looked up, saw it was the same person, saluted and started to turn. They saluted back, and then went back to firing. Nice, polite, and what I wish more people would emulate.

I try to keep that in my mind as an example that CA'ers usually are willing to do the right thing, but get painted with the broad and usually anomyous brush of "bad CA-er" such as HRM Meridies above. Nobody knew who did it, so it leads to bad thoughts against them all.