SCA Dukes

ThorvaldR Skegglauss · Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:01 am

Ok, we have had the thread on oldest king, youngest king, youngest knight, oldest knight etc etc.

New question...... Who if any Dukes were/are un-belts?

curiosity! :wink:

regards
Thorvaldr

Baron Eirik · Post by **Baron Eirik** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:07 am

If memory serves, Duke Sir Kane of Meridies (Gleann Abheann now?) was still unbelted as a duke.

Blackstone · Post by **Blackstone** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:09 am

The Outlands has a number who were unbelted as Dukes.

When His Majesty steps down in a couple of weeks, he will be the latest.

Off the top of my head -- Duke Cyrred of Ashwood, Duke Kynan of Wyre Forest.

BdeB · Post by **BdeB** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:33 am

Morgan Sheridan was a duke without being a belted knight.

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:36 am

To my knowledge, Morguhn was the second person to become a Duke without having been knighted. The name of the first is escaping me, although I can see him in my mind's eye on a Pennsic Bridge getting ready to try and run me over. Big, tall fellow, dark hair, I think his name begins with a V. I want to say he reigned in Trimaris and the Outlands, but don't hold me to it.

Blaine de Navarre · Post by **Blaine de Navarre** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:57 am

Dirk in Caid was a Duke before he was a knight. Caid has had 2 other unbelted Kings; both were knighted while Counts.

Saritor · Post by **Saritor** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:04 am

Blackstone wrote:The Outlands has a number who were unbelted as Dukes.

When His Majesty steps down in a couple of weeks, he will be the latest.

Off the top of my head -- Duke Cyrred of Ashwood, Duke Kynan of Wyre Forest.

Those are it.

Johann was an unbelted Count, but a belted Duke.

Kynan, Cyrred and Alrik will be all of them to date.

Now...unbelted counts adds a few more people to the list for the Outlands, but we're only at 3 unbelted dukes.

Cisco · Post by **Cisco** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:33 am

I believe Duke Gunnar and Duke Gaston from Trimaris were Dukes before Knighted, but I could be wrong.

Thorstenn · Post by **Thorstenn** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:41 am

Gaston was an unbelted Duke in Trimaris. Gunnar was Knighted sometime before his second reign.
The other was Varron and he was Knighted sometime before his second reign also.

Thorstenn.

Sigifrith Hauknefr · Post by **Sigifrith Hauknefr** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:40 am

Uther won his second crown while still unbelted, but was knighted prior to Coronation.

Connor McEldridge · Post by **Connor McEldridge** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:48 am

Baron Eirik wrote:If memory serves, Duke Sir Kane of Meridies (Gleann Abheann now?) was still unbelted as a duke.

Duke Kane Redfeather of Gleann Abhann (formerly Meridies) was the first unbelted Duke in the Society. Or so the story goes. He was also my knight.

C+

edited for clarification.

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:43 pm

Connor McEldridge wrote:
Baron Eirik wrote:If memory serves, Duke Sir Kane of Meridies (Gleann Abheann now?) was still unbelted as a duke.

Duke Kane Redfeather of Gleann Abhann (formerly Meridies) was the first unbelted Duke in the Society. Or so the story goes. He was also my knight.

C+

edited for clarification.

Kane has Morguhn by a week, literally. But I thought there was another one before either of them. Perhaps I am mistaken.

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:47 pm

I think I see the source of my confusion. Verron was a Viscount and a Count before being knighted, but was knighted before becoming a Duke.

So it looks like Kane Redfeather, with Morguhn Sheridan a very, very close second.

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:59 pm

So, for those who are both a Knight and a Duke, which honor do you most cherish? Which carries a larger burden?

Oh, and Duke Llywelyn (Trimaris) is not currently a knight. He resigned his Knighthood and Pelican.

Blackstone · Post by **Blackstone** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:27 pm

Kilkenny wrote:To my knowledge, Morguhn was the second person to become a Duke without having been knighted. The name of the first is escaping me, although I can see him in my mind's eye on a Pennsic Bridge getting ready to try and run me over. Big, tall fellow, dark hair, I think his name begins with a V. I want to say he reigned in Trimaris and the Outlands, but don't hold me to it.

Duke Verron?

Looks like he was an unbelted Count in Meridies, but recieved the accolade prior to his second reign (also in Meridies)

-- Charles

Blackstone · Post by **Blackstone** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:28 pm

Saritor wrote:
Johann was an unbelted Count, but a belted Duke.

.

I actually always have to go look that one up. Something in my head tags him as unbelted Duke, even though it's wrong.

Blaine de Navarre · Post by **Blaine de Navarre** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:00 pm

Jestyr wrote:So, for those who are both a Knight and a Duke, which honor do you most cherish?

I am neither, but I wall pass along something that was told by a Duke of my acquaintance: winning Crown is about what you can do on your best day; knighthood is about what you can do every day, even your worst.

Saritor · Post by **Saritor** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:03 pm

Blackstone wrote:I actually always have to go look that one up. Something in my head tags him as unbelted Duke, even though it's wrong.

It's only his lineage of knighthood that's unbelted dukes.

(Cyrred and Alrik.)

Ewan · Post by **Ewan** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:05 pm

I don't thin An-Tir has ever had an unbelted king. My grand knight Rorik was knighted the day of crown since most people believed he was going to win... or so the story goes.
It was huge culture shock the first time I attended a Ealdormear practice and there were two or thre unbelted counts there. that simply doesn't happen in An-Tir.

Paul the Small · Post by **Paul the Small** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:48 pm

Connor McEldridge wrote: ...
Duke Kane Redfeather of Gleann Abhann (formerly Meridies) was the first unbelted Duke in the Society...

Don't forget that in this case unbelted includes a squire's belt. Kane was never squired, he went from count to duke to knight.

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:51 pm

Jestyr wrote:So, for those who are both a Knight and a Duke, which honor do you most cherish? Which carries a larger burden?

Oh, and Duke Llywelyn (Trimaris) is not currently a knight. He resigned his Knighthood and Pelican.

It's not quite as simple as all that

They're different and carry significance for different reasons.

Winning Crown tournament twice does just mean you had two good tournaments. But serving as King twice leaves you with a great many memories and a deep, hard to ignore connection to the kingdom that only others who have sat the throne can really appreciate.

The accolade is, to my mind, the more substantial accomplishment. Recognition of one's peers for a consistent level of performance.

Becoming a Duke involves having a more profound impact on more people than one typically gets to have in other roles in the SCA.

So, ya know, do I like coffee or strawberry ice cream better ? :lol:

the answer might have to be "Yes"

Thorstenn · Post by **Thorstenn** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:01 pm

That sums it up nicely.

Thor.

Kilkenny wrote:
Jestyr wrote:So, for those who are both a Knight and a Duke, which honor do you most cherish? Which carries a larger burden?

Oh, and Duke Llywelyn (Trimaris) is not currently a knight. He resigned his Knighthood and Pelican.

It's not quite as simple as all that They're different and carry significance for different reasons.

Winning Crown tournament twice does just mean you had two good tournaments. But serving as King twice leaves you with a great many memories and a deep, hard to ignore connection to the kingdom that only others who have sat the throne can really appreciate.

The accolade is, to my mind, the more substantial accomplishment. Recognition of one's peers for a consistent level of performance.

Becoming a Duke involves having a more profound impact on more people than one typically gets to have in other roles in the SCA.

So, ya know, do I like coffee or strawberry ice cream better ? the answer might have to be "Yes"

freiman the minstrel · Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:37 pm

Paul the Small wrote:
Connor McEldridge wrote: ...
Duke Kane Redfeather of Gleann Abhann (formerly Meridies) was the first unbelted Duke in the Society...

Don't forget that in this case unbelted includes a squire's belt. Kane was never squired, he went from count to duke to knight.

Not entirely true.

Kane was squired to Sir John the Bearkiller for a brief period.

He is generally considered to be a self made man.

Anybody want to tell the story of his chain?

f

mordreth · Post by **mordreth** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:32 pm

freiman the minstrel wrote:
Paul the Small wrote:
Connor McEldridge wrote: ...
Duke Kane Redfeather of Gleann Abhann (formerly Meridies) was the first unbelted Duke in the Society...

Don't forget that in this case unbelted includes a squire's belt. Kane was never squired, he went from count to duke to knight.

Not entirely true.

Kane was squired to Sir John the Bearkiller for a brief period.

He is generally considered to be a self made man.

Anybody want to tell the story of his chain?

f

I know that Garlon Dragonheart, a worth man in my opinion made it his business to secure links for the chain.

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:06 am

Kilkenny wrote:It's not quite as simple as all that They're different and carry significance for different reasons.

Winning Crown tournament twice does just mean you had two good tournaments. But serving as King twice leaves you with a great many memories and a deep, hard to ignore connection to the kingdom that only others who have sat the throne can really appreciate.

The accolade is, to my mind, the more substantial accomplishment. Recognition of one's peers for a consistent level of performance.

Becoming a Duke involves having a more profound impact on more people than one typically gets to have in other roles in the SCA.

So, ya know, do I like coffee or strawberry ice cream better ? the answer might have to be "Yes"

Thank you. I really do appreciate your response.

Tom B. · Post by **Tom B.** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:47 am

freiman the minstrel wrote:Anybody want to tell the story of his chain?
f

http://www.net-connection.com/knights/kane.html

Tom

DukeSean · Post by **DukeSean** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:00 am

Kilkenny wrote:Winning Crown tournament twice does just mean you had two good tournaments. But serving as King twice leaves you with a great many memories and a deep, hard to ignore connection to the kingdom that only others who have sat the throne can really appreciate.

Which brings to mind something that I try to explain to people. You don't get to be a Duke for winning Crown twice. You get to be a Duke for doing the JOB. In Artemisia we often say the winning Crown is the easy part. The real work comes after the list is over.

Randwulfson · Post by **Randwulfson** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:39 pm

Enrico di Venezia wrote:
freiman the minstrel wrote:Anybody want to tell the story of his chain?
f

http://www.net-connection.com/knights/kane.html

Tom

That is an awesome story.

broinnfinn · Post by **broinnfinn** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:20 pm

Paul the Small wrote:
Connor McEldridge wrote: ...
Duke Kane Redfeather of Gleann Abhann (formerly Meridies) was the first unbelted Duke in the Society...

Don't forget that in this case unbelted includes a squire's belt. Kane was never squired, he went from count to duke to knight.

Not true.

Kane was squired for a very short period of time. He was not squired at the time of his Knighting.

Bri.