The Armour Archive

NeeSayer wrote:I just recently bought a helm from jackie at shamrock armoury (who did a fantastic job) that is a closed face. I've never fought in one before so i'm kind of concerned about the performance differance over a bargrill. Everyone in my local area is saying that my fighting is going to suffer because of it.

Is there any advice that i could get that would help out? Thanks in advance.

There are 2 main things to learn:

1) Learn that the air you breath has just as much oxygen as with a grilled helm, it is just warmer air.

2) Learn to site through your breath holes.

I have been fighting in one now for years and actually feel akward fighting in a grill....

Leo Medii wrote:I think you and I agree totally Max. I just didn't speak it clearly.

As per usual (the agreeing part -- you pretty much are generally extremely lucid and straightforward and as clear as a flat snap in your points).

At least I've found it so.

Max Von Halstern

Kenwrec Wulfe wrote:

NeeSayer wrote:I just recently bought a helm from jackie at shamrock armoury (who did a fantastic job) that is a closed face. I've never fought in one before so i'm kind of concerned about the performance differance over a bargrill. Everyone in my local area is saying that my fighting is going to suffer because of it.

Is there any advice that i could get that would help out? Thanks in advance.

There are 2 main things to learn:

1) Learn that the air you breath has just as much oxygen as with a grilled helm, it is just warmer air.

2) Learn to site through your breath holes.

I have been fighting in one now for years and actually feel akward fighting in a grill....

I haven't put on a close faced helm (the one I'm ordering will be though ) but I would imagine it's not that different from the feeling of wearing an SCBA facemask for firefighting and hazmat stuff. It just takes getting used to and getting past the difference in air.

Isabella E wrote:I haven't put on a close faced helm (the one I'm ordering will be though ) but I would imagine it's not that different from the feeling of wearing an SCBA facemask for firefighting and hazmat stuff. It just takes getting used to and getting past the difference in air.

Wow - that's a nice perspective. I've 'fought' in an Army NBC mask for hours at a clip (drills and training, never actually had to shoot in earnest in one). If I can do that effectively, handling a close faced helm should be cake. I hadn't thought about it that way before, thanks!

I hated wearing NBC gear.

I still do, but thats a good perspective.

My helmet fits more like the second picture, so i dont have to build this up much. I added two layers of warm and natural cotton batting (less than 3/16s total padding)

As for how to do it with foam, i would make your old fashioned foam liner and put the added amount between that and the helmet shell. Use a sharp knife and taper the foam off so it gradually feathers out or youll create strange pressure points and headaches. If its a period style liner, just make it bigger i suppose. I would definitely find someone local to help pad it out though. It takes a long time to get it perfect though. I know it took me several days of adding very small amounts of batting here and there to get the fit right, although my helmet has absolute minimum padding. YMMV

Hope that helps!

Audax wrote:I hated wearing NBC gear. Shocked

Ditto.

But a close faced helm can't be THAT bad...can it?

Y'know, I bet that's part of the trouble - so few people wear them, people don't get to try it out, and the result is everyone just figures it'd hurt their fighting too much. I've always been really curious, never had a chance to try one though.

Thank you!!!!

Glaukos

The only real issue I have had with my greathelm is that I can't readilly see what's right on the ground in front of me. Not so bad in one-on-one, but not so good for running around in a field battle. I once tripped over a body as I broke into a run, did a full belly flop & face plant. I was stunned, but OK.

Some greathelms will catch shots more (like my flat-top!), and Maciejowski-type barrels have a high center of gravity due to their shape. Because my head is so oval, mine has a lot of weight over my forehead. Wearing it for more than an hour or so can give me a sore neck. It being 12ga mild steel and weighing 15lbs or so doesn't help, I'm sure.

If it is a cold and windy day, a closed helm can be your friend, as your face will stay warmer.

In short, I don't find it a hinderance overall to fight in a closed helm. It is just different.

Owyn wrote:

Audax wrote:I hated wearing NBC gear. Shocked

Ditto.

But a close faced helm can't be THAT bad...can it?

Y'know, I bet that's part of the trouble - so few people wear them, people don't get to try it out, and the result is everyone just figures it'd hurt their fighting too much. I've always been really curious, never had a chance to try one though.

No. Nowhere near as bad as NBC gear. I fought in a greathelm for my first few months fighting and while I did get claustrophobic, it was not as horrible as MOPP gear.

wazza NBC?

BobKnight wrote:wazza NBC?

Nuclear Biological and Chemical warfare, in military jargon. We had to wear special suits designed to protect us from such threats. They are miserable things to wear at Fort Hood in August.

audax wrote:

BobKnight wrote:wazza NBC?

Nuclear Biological and Chemical warfare, in military jargon. We had to wear special suits designed to protect us from such threats. They are miserable things to wear at Fort Hood in August.

It was also my drill sergeants favorite torture gear for punishment.

NeeSayer wrote:

audax wrote:

BobKnight wrote:wazza NBC?

Nuclear Biological and Chemical warfare, in military jargon. We had to wear special suits designed to protect us from such threats. They are miserable things to wear at Fort Hood in August.

It was also my drill sergeants favorite torture gear for punishment.

Good times, good times.

audax wrote:I hated wearing NBC gear.

Change to the Fox network.

audax wrote:They are miserable things to wear at Fort Hood in August.

They are miserable things to wear just about anywhere except Fort Drum in January, and not so great there either. (On the flip side, better than the alternative...)

I'm going to have to see if I can snag an inexpensive closed face something-or-other. I want to give this a serious trial.

Thanks. The reason I brought it up is that since I am a firefighter in training basically, I am not so used to wearing it that I don't notice that it's different than breathing normally. A lot of people apparently get claustrophobic in them because you only get air when you inhale in little puffs. So the air is semi stale and it just feels weird. I haven't had to wear one in a high stress environment like an actual fire yet so we'll see how I do when it's go time. I'm ordering a klapvisor though with no bar grill so I am gonna have to adjust one way or another.

Isabella E wrote:I'm ordering a klapvisor though with no bar grill so I am gonna have to adjust one way or another.

Are you ordering a Klappvisor with no bar grill as your first and only helm? If so, is there a particular reason?

Owyn wrote:I'm going to have to see if I can snag an inexpensive closed face something-or-other. I want to give this a serious trial.

Maybe you should see if you can borrow something from someone for a bit.

Max Von Halstern

It will actually be my second helm. My first was an older 12g mild AB Hammer sallet with a bar grill. It was heavy and a bit too big for me but I fought in it anyway since it once belonged to my good friend and peer. But last year I had to sell it to keep the lights on at my house along with a bunch of other stuff so I am building a new kit from the ground up. I want to shift my persona into the 14th century and am building a kit to match. I just love the way that particular helmet style looks and I've fallen in love with 14th century style overall. So I decided that if I was going to fight again (having no excuses why I couldn't) that I was going to do it 'right' this time.

A helm with a grill AND a face plate that could be locked in a raised or lowered position in combat would be bad assed.

With ANY armor -

Well, made, well fitted, well maintained armor, that you practice in shouldn't hinder you at all.

If you can't fight competitively in the gear you choose, then one of those things is probably lacking.


.

Always look down when wearing that helm before taking a step forward when you are not in lay on. Some of those waterbearers are so short that you won't see them at all.

RoaK:

Alderon of Blackwood has one of those, made by Stephen of Norham.

Visor up:

<img src="http://www.erinwood.org/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=189&g2_serialNumber=2">

Visor down:
<img src="http://www.erinwood.org/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=618&g2_serialNumber=2">

That is the baddest ass thing evar.

Badder than hunting wolves with eagles?

All eye slots are not equal.

Most I have seen in the sca are quite wide and I imagine the vision in them is not much reduced.

Others are much smaller. These most likely will have more issues.

The ones in the photo look pretty big, and other than looking down with just the eyes, you probably will be fine.

Alrighty, got to fight in the helm this weekend. The vision isnt nearly as bad as i was expecting. I find i have trouble when im legged, but other than that i was really impressed. Breath's are going to be a absolute must, as i had to frequently pop my top for fresh air. Overall though, i've made the decision that everything bad i was told about closed face helms to be false because i had no problem fighting in mine.

Awesome! Im glad its working out for you Now you get to preach the gospel of closed faced helms with the rest of us!

Cheers!