Gauntlet Weight: Stainless Fingers vs Hardened Fingers

Halfdan · Post by **Halfdan** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:44 pm

So, I'm thinking of making some stealth finger gauntlets for my viking kit. I'm wondering if there's a significant weight difference between 18g stainless and 20g hardened fingers if I'm using leather for the rest of the gaunts. Advice?

(Posted here because, well, I'm going to be buying the fingers

)

Cet · Post by **Cet** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:55 pm

20ga is @ 3/4 the weight of 18ga.

knitebee · Post by **knitebee** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:19 pm

the weight differance will be 90% because of the differance in thickness, there is little differance in weight of differnt steels at the same thickness.

Halfdan · Post by **Halfdan** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:08 pm

Interesting... i had no idea it was that big of a difference.

So... is the weight reduction worth the increase in cost. We are talking about a pretty small amount of metal, after all.

Thanks!

Luther Anshelm · Post by **Luther Anshelm** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:05 am

Iâ€™m going to weigh in on this one as it's a pet peeve of mine. Cet is right with the 3/4 weight, but what does that mean? A gauntlet is, say 2lb., so 3/4 of that is 1-1/2lb. Thatâ€™s a
savings of 8oz. Can you feel the difference of 8oz., and is it worth the price?

mrks · Post by **mrks** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:09 am

on your hands... you can tell the difference of 1/8th of a pound.

it wont bother you much but 1/4 lb is noticeable. anything more than that is irritating to add weight wise.

Luther Anshelm · Post by **Luther Anshelm** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:17 am

I can't see anybody that is irritated by 4oz. being able to stand in the field all day.

Kel Rekuta · Post by **Kel Rekuta** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:19 am

Luther Anshelm wrote:Iâ€™m going to weigh in on this one as it's a pet peeve of mine. Cet is right with the 3/4 weight, but what does that mean? A gauntlet is, say 2lb., so 3/4 of that is 1-1/2lb. Thatâ€™s a
savings of 8oz. Can you feel the difference of 8oz., and is it worth the price?

Yes, with a two pound sword. With a three - four pound club, not so much. Add to that an extra three pounds of mail and plate on your arm, every bit counts. Encourage people to parry with weapons and shield not fingers. Heavy clamshell gauntlets make Baby Jesus cry.

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:42 am

In the movie "Without Limits", which was the story about Steve Prefontaine, an American long distance runner from the late 60s and 70s, Bob Bowerman (who later founded Nike) talked about the difference one ounce makes to a runner's shoe.

Bowerman broke it down by steps/strides in a race. Basically, if each shoe weighs 1 ounce more, then over the course of 10,000 strides in a race, you will have carried an additional 625 pounds total over the course of that race.

Applied to our game, add an extra 4 ounces to each gauntlet, if you throw, say 300 shots in the course of a day of fighting, you will have carried a total of 75 pounds more total. Is this significant? Only the individual fighter can guess.

But, this also matters in another possible way.

If you are carrying around an extra 4 ounces on your hand, and that makes your shot .1 second slower, that *may* mean the difference between whether you hit the helm, or the shield.

To come back to the track metaphor, I am quite sure that Usain Bolt did not shatter the 100 meter dash record with an extra 4 ounce weight tied to each leg (although he still might have broken it... the guy is a monster).

In conclusion, I am not saying the extra weight matters much at our level of competition, but it does matter.

Baldewin · Post by **Baldewin** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:48 am

While I appreciate what you are getting at, the movie's logic seems a bit flawed.

By movie logic, any runner who weighs around 175 and competes in such a race has achieved the super human feat of dragging 1,750,000 pounds (875 tons!) a hundred meters. The ounce is going to matter, sure, but sensationalist logic does not an argument make.

Gaston de Vieuxchamps · Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:22 pm

In gauntlets, every GRAM counts. Assuming you want to fight well for a long time.

Gaston

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:38 pm

Baldewin wrote:While I appreciate what you are getting at, the movie's logic seems a bit flawed.

By movie logic, any runner who weighs around 175 and competes in such a race has achieved the super human feat of dragging 1,750,000 pounds (875 tons!) a hundred meters. The ounce is going to matter, sure, but sensationalist logic does not an argument make.

Perhaps the exact math used for that example is flawed, but it does help explain why light people are more successful for long distance competition (i.e. long distance running, cycling). Marathoners and cyclists are some of the leanest athletes on the planet because over the distances that they must endure, every ounce matters.

Heck, it is widely accepted that Lance Armstrong would not have been *as good* as he was, had he NOT had cancer. From what I've read, getting cancer allowed him to lose a lot of weight he would (likely) otherwise not have lost. That weight allowed him to perform at a level he had previously never accomplished.

By the way, I am not inferring that getting cancer is a good thing, only that in LA's case, it supposedly enabled him to perform at a higher level because of the weight loss associated with it.

Payn · Post by **Payn** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:49 pm

Jestyr wrote:
Baldewin wrote:Heck, it is widely accepted that Lance Armstrong would not have been *as good* as he was, had he NOT had cancer. From what I've read, getting cancer allowed him to lose a lot of weight he would (likely) otherwise not have lost. That weight allowed him to perform at a level he had previously never accomplished.

He ended up losing 30 pounds of upper body mass (he had been a triathlete before).

Cassius the Rabbit · Post by **Cassius the Rabbit** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:33 pm

Halfdan is there a reason that you want to use 20g (I am guessing .040)? Most of what we are using in hardened steel is .032 or even .025 on smaller parts(22g to 24g). You will lose lots of weight from 18g to 22g if that is what you are making them for. Right now I am trying the stealth visby gauntlets from 1.6mm aluminum for tips and knuckles and .040 titanium for the slats. I would probably use .025 RA410 stainless steel if i had any for the tips and knuckles but I am out of it right now.

Luther Anshelm · Post by **Luther Anshelm** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:22 pm

Well I guess you might have me on (the every oz. counts) if you are really going to try to compare your average middle age, 30 lb. over weight, might get to practice once a week SCA stick jock to Lance Armstrong, for gods sake. I was also thinking in terms of what difference is it REALLY going to make after you add on a visor you canâ€™t see out of, a plaque belt hanging off your hip that does nothing put look bitchin and so on. Yes, going to 23ga. Will start to make a little difference, but at that ga. Even the heat treated stuff is going to get munched.

Cian of Storvik · Post by **Cian of Storvik** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:37 pm

I have to agree with Luther on this one. I know the statistic was just off the cuff, but there's no way even a pound would slow you down a blow by .1 second. That's a lot of time.
If the > weight = < speed in that type of progression, then with all of the armor and heavy weapons he uses, Nissan would be throwing blows that take 2 or 3 seconds to make it to your coconut. And anyone that's been on the other end knows, that shot that just threw your head back into your buddy's shield didn't take seconds.

You might get fatigued faster, but that's a whole other issue unto itself.
I'd rather have a beefy gaunt that I know won't let my delicate body parts get turned into vienna sausage paste then have featherweight gloves.

Besides if Nissan's old grey ass can run around the field all day in a helmet that weighs more then most of our kits in their entirety, then I know you're not going to blame your fatigue on a set of gloves because they could have been 4 oz. lighter.

Wait. is that 4 oz. total or per hand? 8 oz total? Forget everything I just said above. :twisted:

-Cian

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:12 am

the stainless will be significant heavier

and dent easier

Otto von Teich · Post by **Otto von Teich** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:19 am

However they are made, I think the key factor is keeping them at one lb each or less.

Gaston de Vieuxchamps · Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:48 am

My gaunglets are hardenned 23g. No sign of getting "munched".

You simply cannot compare an ounce on the hand to an ounce anywhere else. That's like compring weight savings on a car door to weight savings on a valve lifter.

G

Magnus Ulfgarsson · Post by **Magnus Ulfgarsson** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:55 pm

I wish I could get my hands on a set of good stapling fingers for some stealth gauntlets... heck... just the damn fingers... not even assembled, (but stapling, ya, I've seen the finger kit.. doesn't staple).

Maybe out of spring...? meh.. always pondering.