Schmitthenner's Leather Armor

[Tancred of Messina]

Esteemed comrades,

I’m putting together my first SCA fighting rig and would like to take advantage of the forum’s collective wisdom. I’m attempting to decide on torso armor that will be light enough to practice in, sturdy and presentable enough for war/tourney and won’t require that I pawn the family silverplate to afford. It’s too early in my career to shell out for separate kits for practice and the field.

I’m seriously considering Schmitthenner Armory’s 14th Century Leather & Steel Cuirass.
http://www.schmitthenner.com/cuirass.htm#Medieval%20Styles

They’ve been most responsive to all my email questions about their products, so that definitely goes in the plus column. But I’m so new to the hobby that I haven’t crossed paths yet with anyone who owns their stuff and can speak about its quality/performance first hand. If any of you are customers, or know folks who are, I’d love to hear your impressions.

Votre serviteur,

Tancred of Messina

[MJBlazek]

For that price you could get a good breastplate in metal.

But I am also biased, because I like metal, and am not a fan of this company.

[William Frisbee]

I'm with MJBlazek.

For that pricing you can get a very nice metal breastplate.

[Swete]

Tandy leather is having a pretty nice sell right now. $65 for a chunk of armor leather that is enough to make a full suit easily. If you have anyone in your area that knows how to work with leather, I would consider this your best bet if you wish to armour your person with the flesh of a cow.
(Easy to add steel or plastic splints for reinforcements as well...)

[Heath B fraychef]

a close friend of mind was in the same position you are not that lon ago.
except he made the mistake of buying first and then trying to get his money back.
the leather gauntlets he bought from them were not only not sca legal,
but definately unsafe for use.
the rivets were very poorly installed to the point of injuring the wearer.
personaly i would look elsewhere.
perhaps if you told us exactly what you were looking for we could point you in the right direction.

[SyrTheo]

Hello Tancred,

That is a nice looking piece, but you might consider going with some lamellar plates, to lace yourself. See my website at www.eldesar.com

The site is a bit old, and I am working on updates, but it shows the lamellar we sell and has some pics in the gallery. I am happy to give you a 10% discount. Most guys wear a vest which takes approx. 450-550 plates. So as an estimate only, lets say 500 plates. [The black vest I am wearing on the front page is 500 plates]

That's $200 for regular plates, discount already included. plus shipping. plus your time to lace the vest and approx. 15-18.00 for lace if you used paracord. Our plates made from T6 aluminum and are quite strong and protective, and yet the body armour would weigh only 8 pounds.

Let us know if we can help you out.
Best Regards,
EikBrandr

Esteemed comrades,

I’m putting together my first SCA fighting rig and would like to take advantage of the forum’s collective wisdom. I’m attempting to decide on torso armor that will be light enough to practice in, sturdy and presentable enough for war/tourney and won’t require that I pawn the family silverplate to afford. It’s too early in my career to shell out for separate kits for practice and the field.

I’m seriously considering Schmitthenner Armory’s 14th Century Leather & Steel Cuirass.
http://www.schmitthenner.com/cuirass.htm#Medieval%20Styles

They’ve been most responsive to all my email questions about their products, so that definitely goes in the plus column. But I’m so new to the hobby that I haven’t crossed paths yet with anyone who owns their stuff and can speak about its quality/performance first hand. If any of you are customers, or know folks who are, I’d love to hear your impressions.

Votre serviteur,

Tancred of Messina

[Galvyn Lockhart]

Hi Tancred -

Welcome to the hobby.

Good call on checking w/ the AA for advise re: an armour purchase. Most folks around here are pretty helpful w/ their advise.

Now I see that you are looking for your first torso protection. The Schmitthenner Armoury piece you are looking at seems resonable. First thing you should do when thinking about dropping some on coin on an armourer is do a search here on the AA to see what everyone has to say about them. I'll wait here while you do that.

...

OK, if you wish to continue w/ your purchase from SA, I might recommend the leather version of the 14th curaisse or the basic 14th cent. breastplate. The steel / leather version just looks "off" to me. 13 / 15 oz leather should protect you from all but the stoutest of spear thrusts. As long as it doesn't soften up, you should be good.

Another recommendation I would make is to take a look at Icefalcon's brigadine pre-order sale. Ice has a solid rep as an armourer and merchant, and his new brig looks great. Plus the pre-order sales price can't be beat. Though I haven't seen one in person yet, I think this could be the only torso protection that you would ever need. Check his thread out here. http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... p?t=107601

[Galvyn Lockhart]

I would also give EikBrand two thumbs up. I have two friends who have purchased from him and they have nothing but good things to say about the transaction & armour.

[MJBlazek]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stainless-Steel-Cui ... 0220404674

http://cgi.ebay.com.my/MEDIEVAL-BREASTP ... 0360989582


http://strawberryfieldsarmory.com/breastplates.html

http://www.pitbullarmory.com/body.html


for a few....

[Tancred of Messina]

Comrades,

Thanks for the flood of info, it is much appreciated by a n00b attempting to not buy the wrong gear.

The leather seems to be getting a lukewarm response...

Bokolo has just introduced a Wisby brig/CoP that's my other top choice. Done with kydex plates it's incredibly light. Or a Churburg/globos, which in aluminum would be pretty light and even less expensive.

I saw Icefalcon's Brig sale (my splint arms & legs are from his shop). The only hesitation I had there was that the plates don't overlap as in most Wisby styles. Atlantian fighters hit particularly hard I'm told and that design seemed to leave a lot of gaps between the rows where there would be nothing between me and the rattan but my gambeson. I'm not sure how much impact dissipation the small plates would have vs. the larger Visby style plates. (And Your Grace if your reading this please feel free to chime in, I'm sure you picked that particular pattern for a reason and know you wouldn't foist stuff that doesn't work on your customers.)

Basically as a new fighter I'm trying to balance good coverage (I will undoubtedly miss lots of blocks) with reasonable weight (need to get into better fighting trim) and want something historical looking enough that it doesn't need to be hidden under a tabard.

thanks again,

Tancred of Messina

[Magnus Ulfgarsson]

I'd be concerned with those prices myself, though can't say good or bad on their product.

You get what you pay for. If it's cheap it's cheap for a reason.

In picking your armor I'd have comfort as my #1 priority, be sure it's going to fit well because nothing makes you fight less than uncomfortable armour.

That's not to say you can't get something inexpensive and comfortable, just be careful.

[GrumpyMacBastard]

I have bought a few things from Schittenhiener(sp?), only thing of thiers I still wear is the basic kidney belt.

If your looking for leather armour I recommend Viking Leathercrafts, I am not 100% sure if he is taking orders right now but Frank was the bomb when it came to the gear, service, and price. His site is...

http://www.vikingleathercrafts.com/index.php

Another thing to consider is if your period had alot of exposed/visable armour. If you can get away with hidden armour, go for lacrosse or hockey body armour, and a nice fighting tunic or surcoat. Heavy leather over areas that you need of course. Do a little research and you might end up with a more period looking kit then guys who have been around for decades.

[Lucas]

Tancred,

I'm not sure of the quality of SA's work, but for the price they ask, you could easily find a high-quality piece from a well-reputed armourer. The breastplate that I fight in is stainless steel and did not cost much more than the one you are looking at, and it was custom-made for me. Check out Knownworldt.com, or Icefalcon.com. Both have solid reputations for quality and service.

Lucas

[MJBlazek]

also, don't fall into the trap that "Leather is lighter"

That's not always the case.

[Charles Alexander]

I owned a 14th Century Leather/Steel Cuirass from Schmitthenner. It was generally a good piece. I ended up selling it.

It was light, yes. However a 16 gauge breast would only be marginally heavier however.

[Charles Alexander]

And steel would protect better than Unhardened leather...

[Milan H]

For the prices you are looking at, i would go to http://www.wintertreecrafts.com/armour.html and look at the Wisby coat of plates. Good for mid 14th century, and since its custom made to your specs, it wont be as heavy as it feels in the hand. Well made, custom armor is a treat to wear and is comfy. This piece is quite historical as well which may or may not be important to you.

Cheers!

[Baron Alejandro]

Tancred,

If you're in Ponte Alto you're in a stone's throw of a dozen people in any direction who could help you make a wisby coat-of-plates for supercheapo. These same people could also point you in the direction of a fine reputable armourer who could make you a great breastplate. Go to a Ponte Alto practice and ask for Master Kevin, Sir Andrew, Baron James, or any number of others.

And remember to post pics! Good luck!

Comrades,

Thanks for the flood of info, it is much appreciated by a n00b attempting to not buy the wrong gear.

The leather seems to be getting a lukewarm response...

Bokolo has just introduced a Wisby brig/CoP that's my other top choice. Done with kydex plates it's incredibly light. Or a Churburg/globos, which in aluminum would be pretty light and even less expensive.

I saw Icefalcon's Brig sale (my splint arms & legs are from his shop). The only hesitation I had there was that the plates don't overlap as in most Wisby styles. Atlantian fighters hit particularly hard I'm told and that design seemed to leave a lot of gaps between the rows where there would be nothing between me and the rattan but my gambeson. I'm not sure how much impact dissipation the small plates would have vs. the larger Visby style plates. (And Your Grace if your reading this please feel free to chime in, I'm sure you picked that particular pattern for a reason and know you wouldn't foist stuff that doesn't work on your customers.)

Basically as a new fighter I'm trying to balance good coverage (I will undoubtedly miss lots of blocks) with reasonable weight (need to get into better fighting trim) and want something historical looking enough that it doesn't need to be hidden under a tabard.

thanks again,

Tancred of Messina

[Squire Felix]

I very much enjoyed my experience with them. I order the breastplate and the gorget. They game exactly as planned and ordered.

You could get metal, but I like to look of Leather and the fact the it doesn't rust or smell no matter how hard I work in it. Also it will grow to fit your body after about 20 hours of hard work in it.

Brand is a stand up guy, up front about his prices and his product and fast on email response.

Tell him when you order that its for SCA combat and you are good to go!

[Tomburr]

I think that breastplate would be heavy to the point of being completely unnecessary. The leather or the steel will be enough to protect you, why combine them? The result will be a heavy hunk of armor that isn't even historically accurate.
Plus, if you're new to SCA fighting, you need to learn how to guage the shots you recieve accurately. This is a very important skill. Wearing tank armor may make this harder to learn.

FWIW, I would recommend that you go for a steel breastplate or a CoP kit and assemble it yourself (save money and learn something about armoring). These will provide you ample protection while allowing you to feel where you were hit and how hard.

Plus, you will automatically have a much more historically accurate kit, thus saving you the trouble and added expense of replacing your armour on the basis of accuracy, further down the road. This is an aspect that many newer fighters don't consider when making their first purchases, and can cause some delayed buyer's remorse when they do more research on their persona. If you're gonna spend money on armour, it may as well be on something you'll be satisfied wearing for quite a while.

I hope this advice is useful to you.

[Duke Icefalcon]

Comrades,

Thanks for the flood of info, it is much appreciated by a n00b attempting to not buy the wrong gear.

The leather seems to be getting a lukewarm response...

Bokolo has just introduced a Wisby brig/CoP that's my other top choice. Done with kydex plates it's incredibly light. Or a Churburg/globos, which in aluminum would be pretty light and even less expensive.

I saw Icefalcon's Brig sale (my splint arms & legs are from his shop). The only hesitation I had there was that the plates don't overlap as in most Wisby styles. Atlantian fighters hit particularly hard I'm told and that design seemed to leave a lot of gaps between the rows where there would be nothing between me and the rattan but my gambeson. I'm not sure how much impact dissipation the small plates would have vs. the larger Visby style plates. (And Your Grace if your reading this please feel free to chime in, I'm sure you picked that particular pattern for a reason and know you wouldn't foist stuff that doesn't work on your customers.)

Basically as a new fighter I'm trying to balance good coverage (I will undoubtedly miss lots of blocks) with reasonable weight (need to get into better fighting trim) and want something historical looking enough that it doesn't need to be hidden under a tabard.

thanks again,

Tancred of Messina

There ARE gaps between the plates but they are only about 1/2 inc at most. A brig is not going to be at protective as wearing full plate but it should protect you better than leather armor (unless it is 16 ounce+)..

Ice

[Simon/Jim]

Tancred,

I bought full arms, full legs and pauldrons from Schmitthenner about 7 or 8 years ago. Long ago enough that I'm not sure. I fight as much or more than anyone else in the groups I've lived in, and the arms and legs lasted a really long time. I just finally had to replace them this year. The pauldrons never really suited me, so I traded them to a friend who used them for at least a couple of years. I didn't get the body armor, but my experience with them was fairly positive. Good luck whatever your choice is. Armor buying is always a fairly difficult proposition, whether you are new or not.