Business tips for armourers

[Laurie Wise]

Over the years, customers have asked if we took credit cards, but the system cost too much for us to use. Kirby always preferred money orders or checks when dealing with mailorders anyway. Because we had been burned a few times with checks in the past, we generally held these to make sure they cleared.

Money orders are different, of course.

Before most banks stopped, a customer could expect a paper "canceled check" from the bank. With a money order, your customer has a "hard copy" to refer back with. We make copies of either for our own reference.

So nothing wrong by being conservative that way.

PayPal has had it's ups and downs, I know people who use these without any problems but I just don't trust most online transfers anyway. Just being old fashioned, I guess.

[Owyn]

I'd have to strongly recommend accepting either paypal or credit/debit cards in today's market, especially for a newer armorer (someone armoring for 50 years has *probably* built enough rep and clientel that it doesn't matter as much!).

Money orders are for most part dead. Checks are headed in that direction, and even cash is going out of style (checking local fast food places, when they started accepting credit cards *overnight* they went to over 50% of their customers using cards instead of cash). People don't want to have to mail a check anymore, and certainly don't want to go through the pain of getting a money order.

Bottom line: either accepting credit cards or a credit card substitute like paypal is going to be critical for almost all online businesses. Any armorer who refuses both is going to lose a substantial portion of his/her potential business.

[polarbearforge]

Bottom line: either accepting credit cards or a credit card substitute like paypal is going to be critical for almost all online businesses. Any armorer who refuses both is going to lose a substantial portion of his/her potential business.

I will very strongly agree with this statement.

Jamie

[Amanda M]

I've had problems with money orders and stuff before. Some got lost in the mail and I was never paid for my work and other times the envelope and contents came so mangled I had to send a picture to the customer and ask for another one. With paypal both the customer and I know that the money has gone through. I have never had a problem with them in my own business, just when selling some stuff on ebay they held onto my money for a month before they released it.

[Ottawa Swordplay]

Here's another advantage of paypal or credit card (at least it's an advantage to the seller). It makes the transaction easy and fast, so the buyer can complete the transaction before they have second thoughts, mention it to their spouse, or what have you. While there are some people who don't want to go to the trouble of using cheques or money orders, I suspect there are even more who are theoretically willing, but then back out of the transaction because they have enough time to really consider whether they need another $500 helmet or not. And you may never even be aware of these people, because they may back out before they contact you.

As a buyer, it's probably good for me that some of y'all don't take paypal.

[Mad Matt]

If you take a deposit on something. And you are able to complete the item on time. Or have started the item on time. Or even if the customer cancels before the predicted delivery date. The deposit damn right belongs to you. That's the damn point of a deposit. The reason for it is insurance to make sure the customer doesn't back out.

If you put a deposit on a car and say I'll be back next week with the rest of the money. then show up next week and say I can't afford the car. You don't get your damn deposit back. this is not any difference. Run a business not a charity.

The fact that a deposit isn't yours until the item is delivered and the customer happy is so retarded it was very difficult to avoid using bad language in this post. You're defeating the entire point of a deposit.

[Owyn]

The fact that a deposit isn't yours until the item is delivered and the customer happy is so retarded it was very difficult to avoid using bad language in this post. You're defeating the entire point of a deposit.

You're misunderstanding what was said, Matt.

What I and others meant above is that you should *treat* that money as if it is not yours - treat it like it's in escrow - until the customer has the item.

I've watched over the years, and I can't even count how many folks have gotten in deep water because they've collected thousands of dollars from customers and then had some sort of life issue crop up to delay delivery of product by 6, 12, 24 or more months past when it was expected.

If you collect cash and set it aside until the product is delivered, and life gets in the way to prevent you from making the product, you can still return the cash! If you instead spent that cash on steel, or rent, or myriad other things, then you and your rep are trashed instead.

Save the cash aside *as if* it was not yours until the product is delivered. That's all. Ignoring this won't destroy an armorer by itself, but following this rule makes a business and reputation much more stable and durable.

[Rana]

Save the cash aside *as if* it was not yours until the product is delivered. That's all.

Perhaps a better clarification would be to say "Until the transaction is finished." Because if a customer were to back out of the transaction, after materials were purchased and cut into and so on, then yes, I'd say the deposit is forfeit to the business.

If a disclaimer is made up front about a Non-Refundable 50% Deposit Required, then there should (theoretically) be no problem, correct?

In my side business (which is not armoring), I require a 50% non-refundable deposit. Back when times were busier, I could almost guarantee that by taking one job, I'd be turning down another. If I passed up gigs for a booked job that backed out on me, that 50% would make it *almost* OK.

[Maeryk]

Save the cash aside *as if* it was not yours until the product is delivered. That's all.

Perhaps a better clarification would be to say "Until the transaction is finished." Because if a customer were to back out of the transaction, after materials were purchased and cut into and so on, then yes, I'd say the deposit is forfeit to the business.

If a disclaimer is made up front about a Non-Refundable 50% Deposit Required, then there should (theoretically) be no problem, correct?

In my side business (which is not armoring), I require a 50% non-refundable deposit. Back when times were busier, I could almost guarantee that by taking one job, I'd be turning down another. If I passed up gigs for a booked job that backed out on me, that 50% would make it *almost* OK.

I agree.. to a point.

If I give you a 50% deposit, and am quoted a 3 month turnaround.. and it's now two years, and I have seen nothing.. I need my deposit back. If you've already spent it? Start selling blood or something..

(not YOU you, but general you, you see.)

[Mad Matt]

That's pretty much what I said. The deposit is yours as long as you can fulfill your end. If the customer backs out early it's yours. If they're not happy but you delivered what was promised it's yours. If the customer never sends the balance it's yours. If you can't fulfill your end of the bargain it's the only instance where it's not yours. Also if you complete the item and can't reach the customer in a reasonable amount of time you can sell whatever it was and the deposit is yours. Reasonable amount of time being at the very least 30 days.

My first sentence was "If you take a deposit on something. And you are able to complete the item on time. Or have started the item on time. Or even if the customer cancels before the predicted delivery date."

If you don't have the capital to buy the materials before the customer pays a deposit you shouldn't be doing the job. A business needs capital to run. If you don't have the capital you don't have the business.