The Armour Archive

Rattan Wasters

A Rattan Sword that looks like a sword instead of a round stick!

Made from our own Oversized Rattan, the 15A rattan sword blank made by Foxknife Armory features the improved appearance and handling found in hardwood wasters used by other historical organizations but is SCA legal. Patterned after the Oakshott typology 15A "Bastard" sword which was in general usage from 1350 to 1420, it features a modified diamond cross-section and strong midrib along the entire blade length. Blade length is 30 inches, handle length is 12 inches (42 inches overall). It can easily be converted to a type 15 long sword (in general use from 1290 to 1415) by cutting the handle shorter. The rattan hilt has been left extra thick to maximise strength and allow additional detail carving or other finishing.

Most people who have picked up a finished sword (with pommel and crossguard, not included) have reported that the sword-like shape of the rattan waster gives it a lighter feel in the hand than cylindrical batons bearing the same hardware.

The selection:



Dan, the craftsman making them for me, holding his original



Close up

Oh pretty!

What hardware do you recommend?

So THAT is why he was so interested in Eddie's methods.

Aaaand for those physics junkies, if you have a thinner area of impact with the same mass behind it it will hit.... Harder! Yaay for harder shots with less momentum.

Vitus von Atzinger wrote:So THAT is why he was so interested in Eddie's methods.

You have it backwards. I thought they were so cool, we needed more of them!

Michael Deth wrote:Oh pretty!

What hardware do you recommend?

We left the grip thick so you are able to make it fit whatever you want. Dan has Windrose furniture on his. I try not to design things to specific hardware, I like guys to have options.

It wasn't like eddie was making any. He needs to finish your sword like he promised.

Those look amazing!

Oh, SWEET!!!

Me likey.

VERY NICE

I so want one of those!

An awesome day for the SCA. These look truly fantastic.

Vitus von Atzinger wrote:So THAT is why he was so interested in Eddie's methods.

Yes and no. I've handled one of Eddie's swords and was very interested in Eddie's supplier for thick rattan when my commission for one of Eddie's swords fell through and I moved to Calontir in late 2009 with a pommel and crossguard and no sword to attach it to. My 15A was inspired by Eddie's sword as much as the real Oakshott type XVA sword, but I was living in Kansas when I created it. The design is my own.

Now that I am back in the Middle, I'd love to meet with Eddie and compare notes and measurements. I have no idea if he used a drawknife and spoke-shave like I do or if he also experimented with using a lathe for the handle (which ruined some rattan when a 42" piece was put on a mechanical lathe). I know for certain he would use a smaller handle than the swords Baron Eirik has, but I intentionally made them extra thick because it is easier to carve wood than to add it back after it is gone.

In addition to the 15A, I’m working on a design for a a flat-bladed spatha and a type X broadsword with its characteristic wide fuller. Also, Baron Eirik has (and will have in the future) several smaller one-of-a-kind swords (like the Celtic thrusting sword on the left side of the topmost picture) if you track him down in person. Neither one of us like throwing away rattan just because the initial log is curved or shorter than 42 inches. For example, I’m very happy with the short rattan carbine I handed him at Border Raids, but don’t plan on making more of them.

Michael Deth wrote:Oh pretty!

What hardware do you recommend?

On the pictured sword, I used a Windrose aluminum crossguard and pommel. The weight (1 lb 15.3 oz for the complete sword) and balance were excellent, but I had to carve the handle down so much to fit the 1 1/8" hole in the crossguard that I built the handle back up again with a layer of carpet tape, some string and then athletic tape. I was also surprised that the hole for the lag bolt in the pommel wasn't countersunk. The blade tape is chrome finish duct tape from Walmart (*not* illegal metal foil tape), by the way.



I would love to see someone in the future make some hardware to fit the sword instead of the other way around. For those so inclined, a 1.5" x 1.25" ellipse requires a 2.33" loop of string and 0.829" between foci - a smidge over 13/16" (http://www.cleavebooks.co.uk/scol/callipse.htm).

I have found, with using the Windrose hardware, that my hand gets less tired from gripping the smaller grip than from gripping a larger one.
I don't build mine back up like you did, and it has always worked great!

I might just have to order a couple of these!

Thomas, you are Erik are doing a great thing here.

Spread the word.

Call your friends, click "share" on the announcement at Munitions Grade Arms' facebook page, etc. The more rattan wasters sold now, the greater the chances that Baron Eirik will commission a second, larger batch of blades for Pennsic.

In all seriousness, I couldn't have contributed as much as I have without his patronage.

Hi Gents. What is the actual edge width of the waster? I am curious as to it full cross-section dimensions as well (thickness at edge, thickness at center ). Any chance you have a ballpark on these?

I'll get one out and post some specs in a bit.

Eirik those are amazing. Why must you tempt me so with Pennsic so near?

Lucian Ro wrote:Eirik those are amazing. Why must you tempt me so with Pennsic so near?

So you can have the cool new toy when you get there

treville wrote:Hi Gents. What is the actual edge width of the waster? I am curious as to it full cross-section dimensions as well (thickness at edge, thickness at center ). Any chance you have a ballpark on these?

I grabbed one out of the trailer, happened to be the one with the shorter handle, but other than that it's a good representative. Two things to remember: The max width varies a bit with the original width of the rattan and these are hand shaped so there's some variations in final dimensions from that, too. But we ran my gauge over all of them.

And I used my gauge for these pics.

at the base of the blade, flat ~2 inch wide



edge


cont.

Blade up, near the tip



'Flat' up, same spot



At the tip:

The flat part of the edge is about 5/8" to 3/4" wide. The layout lines are 5/8" apart and the rattan is never narrower than they are.

Can you do custom blade lengths and grip lengths or is this the 'one true size' so customers can cut down from there? I'm looking to make a pair of the extra wide single handed swords used in Rene style tourneys (to go with the kolben I'm building from some of your thick rattan as well)

Can we purchase at Pennsic or is this pre-order only? I didn't see that listed above (Probably missed it)

Sean

Sean Powell wrote:Can you do custom blade lengths and grip lengths or is this the 'one true size' so customers can cut down from there? I'm looking to make a pair of the extra wide single handed swords used in Rene style tourneys (to go with the kolben I'm building from some of your thick rattan as well)

I'll talk with Thomas. What dimensions would you like?

Sean Powell wrote:Can we purchase at Pennsic or is this pre-order only? I didn't see that listed above (Probably missed it)

Sean

They are available online until I leave for Pennsic. I take my entire stock of everything to Pennsic, so if I have any of these at the end of the month, they will be there.

Baron Eirik wrote:

Sean Powell wrote:Can you do custom blade lengths and grip lengths or is this the 'one true size' so customers can cut down from there?

I'll talk with Thomas. What dimensions would you like?

I have time to do a single custom order between now and Pennsic. Email the specifics to Eirik. He knows enough about what is involved that I trust him to get the appropriate size wood (and hardware, if necessary) to me, charge an approprite price for what you want done, handle down payments, etc.

bumpage

These look great.
I am definitely going to have to get one of these when money allows.

Amalric

So does shaving it down shorten the life of the stick a a lot?

All right now that the tease is over lets talk how much?
I would want a 38" blade tip to hilt and of course shipping to 94041.

These things are gonna go like hot cakes.

-Matthew- wrote:So does shaving it down shorten the life of the stick a a lot?

I think bad geometry and bad workmanship will shorten the life of a stick a lot. Some people who shave rattan use power tools in inappropriate ways (for example, placing an unintensional divot in the wood where blade meets hilt with a jig saw) or just try to remove as much wood as legally possible to get the weight down. Once you have made an "oops" there is no legal way to add removed wood back.

As for protecting the outside of the striking surface from softening from repeated blows at the same place (what I have heard called a "sweet spot"), in addition to basics like not using your tourney sword on a pell, I have heard that a strip of hardened leather taped to the blade is a great preventative for both carved swords and uncarved batons.

The center sword in the topmost picture (the 6th blade from the right, not the center of the photo) has a shorter handle because I discovered a crack running down the middle of the wood when I was carving - a crack that was there but hidden when the bark was covering it. You could say that piece of wood may last longer because it was carved. The flaw was discovered and removed.

Luthold wrote:All right now that the tease is over lets talk how much?

Did you follow the link at the very top?

Luthold wrote:I would want a 38" blade tip to hilt and of course shipping to 94041.

Baron Eirik is at an event this weekend, but while we are waiting for him to come back and contact you privately with pricing for a custom order, in addition to a 38" blade length, what would you want for a handle and overall length?

DOH !

hand smacking forehead!
I will contact him later, thanks!

Luthold wrote:DOH !

hand smacking forehead!
I will contact him later, thanks!

PM or email me with the details. We'll still run it through the web store, the shipping calculator for this size range is accurate, so the shipping will be around $11 or $12.