The Armour Archive

shinyhalo

At least half the coolness factor of owning a Knotwolf helm is the fact it was MADE by Rich.
My helm is the second most expensive piece of kit I own...and worth EVERY penny IMO.

Sir Richard, whatever you decide, just know that the armoring community will be much lessened without you in it, so I would hope that you continue putting out amazing stuff, even if it's not paying the bills. You give everyone else something to strive for!

P.S. - Even though I'm a mailler, not a plate armorer, visiting your shop was one of the high points of my "career".

T.T If only blacksmiths accepted a payment plan god that 3'rd one is a beauty.

Rich,

Let's schedule some time for a conversation at Pennsic, where we leave the booth and talk uninterrupted. Remember we are in a down economy right now, and try not to let it make a decision for you. TBH, the idea of closing up shop and getting a job with set hours and paychecks I can actually cash comes to me once a week. The last three years have been much harder than any of us lets on.

Upping your deposit won't help, it will just make sure you won't be able to make yourself keep it if they can't finish the order. Custom work is the devil, but it's the devil you know. Maybe a surcharge for custom helmets will separate some of the wheat from the chaff?

Spend a day making those new cup hilts of yours before Pennsic.

Hi Knotwolf, you said,


Really nothing new, just becoming more common now:

Customers who place orders, but will not pay to 1/4 down that is required after several reminders (doesn't make it seem likely they will pay when I'm done either). Makes a pile of waiting work with no pay, and drastically increases the time pressure if they do eventually pay up.

Customers who are unable to pay when an order is finished. If I'm late, I'm a liar & a cheat. If they are late, it was usually just inconvenient. Doesn't sit well when my average customer makes 3-4 times more than I do, and means I often end up working on projects that should have waited. I can't count the number of folks who have responded with "I never expected you'd have it done on time".

Knockoffs. It's not too hard these days to find a copy of one of my originals that's low-balled on the pricing (pretty easy to find a Windrose helm being copied for that matter), and a fair portion of the market cares only about the price. I certainly don't have any bitchin rights on existing helms from history, but I feel pretty safe in saying that some of my personal designs have been directly copied recently.

Materials, fuel, and shipping have risen drastically over the past few years. If I raise prices to match these increases, much of the customer base is likely to evaporate. I'm certainly not the only guy running low on dough these days.

In all likelyhood I will first attempt an absolute shutdown on any custom work at all, ever. It's by far the riskiest/most unstable part of this job, causes the most headaches, and brings in the least money per hour worked. I'll do my best to build a lot from my "Wish List" of requested designs and hope sales from the shelf keeps up.

Rant over for now. I'm going to turn around & get back to work on the Spangen 4/Clinker mix I hope to have up by Pennsic. I'll probably have that one, a phrygian, and maybe two more by then. Any requests?

R

ps -I really do like my job, and most of you guys.
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I agree COMPLETELY, I've built armor for a living for about 10 years (I know it dont show in my work but its true) custom orders are the biggest problems I've ever had. In recent years i've moved to a 50 dollar down payment to get on my order list, so I can just refund easily if needed. But it is still stressfull having a list of people you have to make armor for.

Getting the fit right is a nightmare sometimes. I just had 2 orders in a row not fit right, one was a giant and the next one was a stump. For me to do the right thing, I have to drop everything and make the people new stuff that fits. Not to mention paying shipping a few more times as my other orders wait longer.

Imagine trying to give estimates on items youve never built before, spending 2 weeks building something I charged 400 dollars for.... over and over and over. It takes most of the fun out of armoring.


Anyway your rant hit home with me, I believe the way to build armor and make it profitable / enjoyable is to build it first, know how much time you have in it, and sell it as instock. There will be people out there the right size for it I think.

Have a good week

Andy @ Pitbull Armory

Hey guys

How is it going? I can agree with all of the comments from Pitbull and Knotwolf. I just got one question and with that i am expecting a couple of different answers and i know i will get a lot more. I think i should know the answer but i will ask it anyways. What do ya'll mean by custom armour now days? Do you mean custom on sizing or do you mean custom on the way the armour is going to look. what do you mean by custom? If anyone thinks this needs to be in another thread please move it. Thanks in advance


Lanars

There is a eral divide coming between buyers and makers. Many people who baulk at making an up front payment do so for a reason. They have been burned be "repuatable" armorers that have up and dissapeared. I have been hung out to dry too many times. Ken Zicker, Sir Brand, Schmittenhenner... i know fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
I AM IN NO WAY SAYING KNOTWOLF WILL DO THIS.
But as we all know, it does happen.

There has to be a happy medium...
It is becomeing a real catch 22... people don't want to purchase until they know they will get it, armorers don't want to (or in many cases can't) make it until they have som emoney.

"Custom" means made specifically for the individual who approaches the maker.
This means size, style, and any specific details that may vary from the standard available pattern.

Other opinions may vary, but that is the way I interpret the description of custom.
I imagine it is the most common interpretation.

-Badger-

lanars wrote:Hey guys

How is it going? I can agree with all of the comments from Pitbull and Knotwolf. I just got one question and with that i am expecting a couple of different answers and i know i will get a lot more. I think i should know the answer but i will ask it anyways. What do ya'll mean by custom armour now days? Do you mean custom on sizing or do you mean custom on the way the armour is going to look. what do you mean by custom? If anyone thinks this needs to be in another thread please move it. Thanks in advance


Lanars

lanars wrote:Hey guys

How is it going? I can agree with all of the comments from Pitbull and Knotwolf. I just got one question and with that i am expecting a couple of different answers and i know i will get a lot more. I think i should know the answer but i will ask it anyways. What do ya'll mean by custom armour now days? Do you mean custom on sizing or do you mean custom on the way the armour is going to look. what do you mean by custom? If anyone thinks this needs to be in another thread please move it. Thanks in advance


Lanars

For me, custom is anything that isn't purchased already completed from my website or off the shelf at an event. Even my "stock" designs require fitting & alteration to fit individual customers.

R

R

Yeah I was gonna say, there is nothing 'stock' about a Knotwolf helm (even the ones he calls stock IMO)
Each one has a bit of custom work done to it
I have never seen two that were exactly alike.

Hi Lanars. Custom means what Badger and Knotwolf said. Custom is made to they buyers measurments and style choices. Stock or Instock means anything I have already made and ready for sale. Custom = order list and wait times, and not getting paid for alot of unforseen R+D time. Instock means I get to build what I want, sell it for something reasonable, and you get it within 5 days, If it dont work for you I just send you another that does work, or refund you. The whole process is fast and almost guaranteed to come out good for everbody.

Hi MjBlazek, I dont blame anyone for not wanting to put any money up front. Even if armorers dont take any money up front, custom orders are still a nightmare. Can you imagine looking at a pic of something you have never built and having to give an estimate on it? . I think the happy medium you referred to is for armorers to sell instock stuff mostly and take a custom order from time to time if is something I feel like building.

Take care

Andy @ PBA

Oh Andy I totally agree! I can see both sides of the coin here. And of course Armorers are the ones caught in the stink of it.
They can't go tho thier supplier and say "well, My customers won't pay me until the order is done, so I'll pay you for my stuff after I have been paid." so they have to shell out the money for materials and other costs up front, and hope to make the custom AND a ton of instock to make up the difference.

omg just make everything Large size then draw dotted lines where the customer can cut if they want it Medium or Small.

For helms it's a little trickier but you can still do things like cut the brow and sagittal bands Large and have the customer custom size it with a jig saw.

just make everything Large size then draw dotted lines where the customer can cut if they want it Medium or Small.

From the little armouring I've done it seems you're underestimating the time and skill that goes into making good armour.
This might work for a kit idea but even then, if you look at paper patterns for sewing and the like varying size patterns have the outer lines crossing each other.

Shinyhalo make a few helms, then write back.