Review of ashcraft baker. Buyer BEWARE!!!

[Gunther Neiman]

I was at a practice not long ago and a new fighter was talking about getting the A/B starter kit. I advised him not to and that I would assist him in putting together a set of armor to get him on the field. Another member who claimed to be part of the AA approached and raved about A/B, said it would be the best move for the new fighter to take. I advised him of the reviews that I have seen on the AA and his reply was "the AA will back me in saying A/B is the best price around and the best service there is". At that moment I just walked away.

Anyone can be a part of the AA. It's just a message board, not a role call of the elite.
Maybe the starter kit would be a good deal if the new fighter went up to the smith, handed him cash, and walked away with a complete starter kit. That assumes there's an experienced person standing there doublechecking the gear: welds, rivets, straps, and the placement thereof. Personally, I haven't seen it to decide if it would be protective enough, durable, and still allow mobility; so maybe the starter kit is the biggest trap in existence.

But if they've got to pay, then wait for him to send something...

Damn, and here I thought I was all cool and all that because I was on here LOL

[Maddoux]

Ordering from AB is taking a chance with your money. If your cool with that great. Just know that is what your doing.

I actually still point people toward AB for one thing. Hilts. 3 hilts for 30$ is about the best deal out there. They aint pretty but they work and if they never come in i'm only out 30 $, which sucks but aint too bad. I dont think you can get even 1 hilt for 30$ anywhere else.

For the price of AB's helmets and joints there are better quality armourers out there that you dont have to risk money on.

And that's what I would test with, if I were to order from him again. I'm working with a few others to get the loaner gear kits put together. I've got two rigs to curve wooden shields, and it would be nice to have a backstock of several shield hilts for when I make a new shield blank.

[The Iron Dwarf]

IMO it seems he has had a second, third, forth chance and just sometimes sends things out so that someone can say they got theirs and he must have turned over a new leaf and be all honest now.
I would still say it is better to go to an armourer with a good reputation than someone who has ripped off countless people, there is even a "go to armorer" thread here somewhere with a list, just find a name there and do a search on the forums for good or bad comments.

paying $30 for something worth $90 is not so good if the chance of getting it is less than 1 in 10 or if a simple item like that is the reason others then order $100s of bigger items that never arrive on your recommendation that he is now doing things right for once because your items arrived.

[Maddoux]

I can't speak to what is going on in his heart or in his mind. What I can say, right now, is this -

1) Comparing the e-mails I sent and received last year and this, I'm dealing with different people. The tone, syntax, and degree of formality has shifted.
2) Ashcraft-Baker Armory is now Ashcraft Armoury. This tells me that there were two business partners, and one is now gone. I don't know if this is the case, but it would go in line with
3) Reasons. They were given. Its not my place to repeat them, but they would lead to point two.
4) Within 8 hours of sending an e-mail to the new e-mail address, I received an apology, an explanation, and a promise to fulfill the order.
5) 24 hours later, I had a tracking number.

I am inclined to believe, from point one, that I had initially been dealing with the business partner who is no longer involved. If I had been dealing with such a partner, and then the reasons provided occurred, I can understand why my product never came in. I've seen similar things happen before, so I might just be accepting of it.

When I get my product, five hilts, I'm going to have the Knight Marshal of my canton inspect them. Pictures will be taken, and posted for everyone here. I'll probably start a new thread, to get wider exposure and commentary on the apparent quality or lack thereof in the hilts, with notes from the Knight Marshal on what he noticed. (I'm a Rapier Fighter, so I don't know what to look for on them.)

I'm not saying that you should go out and buy Ashcraft Armoury today. But, I think that if you've placed an order and not received it in the last year, you should send him an e-mail to his new e-mail address to get resolution to the problem. If you've purchased equipment that failed, he posts a guarantee on it, so send him an e-mail and see about getting a resolution to the problem.

I can tell you what I've seen since the business changed from Ashcraft-Baker to Ashcraft Armoury, and I'm currently inclined to believe that more information is needed before I write him off for good.

[Roland Brokentooth]

I may end up eating these words (in which case, I would deserve it) but I have never been bested by a fighter wearing an Ashcraft Baker helm and I don't believe I have ever seen a top ranked fighter wearing one.

I just don't see what the appeal is when you can buy a perfectly nice bascinet from Ironmonger for just a couple bills more than an A/B monstrosity.

[Brennainn]

Yeah.

[Caius705]

I may end up eating these words (in which case, I would deserve it) but I have never been bested by a fighter wearing an Ashcraft Baker helm and I don't believe I have ever seen a top ranked fighter wearing one.

I just don't see what the appeal is when you can buy a perfectly nice bascinet from Ironmonger for just a couple bills more than an A/B monstrosity.

I want the SCA to be prettier and closer to history, especially in armor. But part of me will be sad when there aren't anymore A/B helms. Something about their lack of glancing surfaces and my mace hitting them is just magical.

[The Iron Dwarf]

will wait to see pictures and a report on your items ( I am no expert and am not in need of armour, nor do i make it )

one thing that is common here and I dont know if it happens there:

a failed or failing business closes down and the person running it who owes customers and suppliers thousands sells all his stock to a new business with a slightly different name for maybe $1, he also owns the new business but the old one has no assets so those owed have a hard time getting anything.
the new business can quite legally sell the stock and keep the profit, some do this quite often.

I am not saying this is the case here and I Dont know the law in the US regarding this or how often it happens.

I am happy to wait and see but dont like to hear of a bunch of newbies getting ripped off on their first purchase enough for them to leave the sport.

[Maddoux]

And I absolutely agree. I don't want any newbies being ripped off, and I've warned many away from him. I'm fairly certain that the kind of business practice you're suggesting is highly illegal in the States, I'm not sure, I haven't taken my Business Law classes yet. I want to see what happens with the other people who've had problems with AB over the last year or two, and then I might risk a little more money. If everything works out, I might start sending recruits his way.

Roland, you might not have been beaten by someone who was currently wearing an AB helm, but there's a great chance that you have been beaten by someone who had worn an AB helm. The gear doesn't make the warrior. I don't care how much you spend on armor or blade, if you don't know how to use it you will never win. Likewise, no matter if you're in an AB helm and blue barrel armor, if you have the skill, you will win.

And, many of the new fighters we have in Glaslyn are college students. Someone picking up a kit for themselves, buy the nice stuff. When you're putting together loaner gear kits, you use the ugly stuff. Make them want to get their own. If I can save $20 bucks per helm, when I'm buying two or three (which I will be doing this year, most likely not from Ashcraft) that I'm never going to use, I'm going to do it.

[Cedric]

I just don't see what the appeal is when you can buy a perfectly nice bascinet from Ironmonger for just a couple bills more than an A/B monstrosity.

Cheapest helmet from Ashcraft = $90

Cheapest helmet from Icefalcon = $795 (taken from In Stock helmet page, and not counting fact that Icefalcon usually has some kind of sale price that would possibly reduce this)

This is a lot more then a "a couple more bills", especially for people on a limited budget or beginners who aren't even sure if this is something they want to really do.

Of course, Icefalcon has an awesome reputation for actually delivering his products when you send him money, where as Ashcraft obviously does not. I am also not arguing the fact that his (Icefalcon's) products are of much higher quality. I am just saying there is a significant difference for most people between spending $100 and $800. YMMV.

[Caius705]

Cheapest A/B helm=90
Cheapest IronMonger=135

That's not a huge difference, and the IM helm actually looks acceptable.

[Caius705]

To clarify, the IM helm actually looks quite nice. Every thing from A/B should be put in a hydraulic press.

[Brennainn]

I would say that the chapest is still currently Iron Monger. All evidence of the past puts the AB helmet at 225$ after you kiss your money good by and get the other helmet. Also, a friend of mine had a helmet cave in on him, I don't trust the quality. Even if I got the helmet in the mail I would never reccomend them. 95$ ass is still ass.

[Caius705]

I would say that the chapest is still currently Iron Monger. All evidence of the past puts the AB helmet at 225$ after you kiss your money good by and get the other helmet. Also, a friend of mine had a helmet cave in on him, I don't trust the quality. Even if I got the helmet in the mail I would never reccomend them. 95$ ass is still ass.

Hydraulic press. Or cutting torch. While laughing maniacally. I intend to do that with an old cup hilt. Recording it, of course. I hate cup hilts. And eventually, I may do it with an A/B helm, as a good example to others.

[Cedric]

Cheapest A/B helm=90
Cheapest IronMonger=135

That's not a huge difference, and the IM helm actually looks acceptable.

Absolutely agreed.

There are actually alot of options in the budget helmet market that look better then Ashcraft stuff for not very much more money.

[Thom Noblitt y Gonzalez]

I have my own options of ashcraft and I will keep it short.

1 I have a ashcraft helm that is over 20 years old, it is a hand down from hand down. It has no dents and has earned me a reputation of being a hide on a few occasions because it protects me so well (freindly practices its to tough, at war seems like its barely enough). I understand that this may be a flook or an artifact but I move on.

I am a starving college student that USED to be a banner bearer for them. I actually went in on an order and helped 3 people place orders before this all started. 2 Estrella's later and we still haven't gotten our stuff. I have advised those that placed the order to email the new email based on this thread. I haven't herd back from them (in finals).

Now onto a question. I have found the IronMonger helm mentioned. http://ironmongerarmory.com/stock-helms ... inet-helms
What other places are there to get lower priced Around <$150.

I would like this for my own notes and to send to new fighters with little money. I don't see the point dropping over $200 to get one piece of a rig when they are first starting and don't know if they will stay in it long enough to get its worth out of it.

PS thanks for the rough from the hammer link.

[archibald]

For Thom Noblitt y Gonzalez

I know that finding a helm for cheap is important but one thing to keep in mind is this: If one of your friends buys a decent $200-ish helm from a reputed armorer and then decide to stop playing they shouldn't have a problem selling that helm to someone else here on the AA quickly because there is always a call for starter hats.

[Cedric]

Now onto a question. I have found the IronMonger helm mentioned. http://ironmongerarmory.com/stock-helms ... inet-helms
What other places are there to get lower priced Around <$150.

Emorokian starts @ $100:
http://emorokian-arms.com/Products.html

I know there's more, can't think of any at the moment..

[EnderPC]

Now onto a question. I have found the IronMonger helm mentioned. http://ironmongerarmory.com/stock-helms ... inet-helms
What other places are there to get lower priced Around <$150.

Emorokian starts @ $100:
http://emorokian-arms.com/Products.html

I know there's more, can't think of any at the moment..

Dark Victory sells plastic armor, but they have a 125$ 14g bacinet http://darkvictory.com/

[tim_Belcher]

accdntprone is back in the helm business i think(could be mistaken) and he does some nice hats as well for little money. once hjalmr gets back up and running his hats are about as rock bottom as they come while not belonging in a post apocalyptic movie. 2nd hand on here i have seen helms go for as low as 40 bucks. so there are deals out there and no reason to ever feed the beast that is a/b armory or ashcraft or whatever its called this week


(now the caveat to that is if ashcroft starts making an effort to fix all the wrongs they have done and get people they screwed takin care of then they could possibly warrant another look. i would still be leery of their safety record and have anything they made inspected very closely, and they are just ugly as sin)

[Maddoux]

And its that caveat that I'm interested in. He's fixing the wrong that's been done to me. I posted here to see if others go to him to get their wrongs righted.

[WmOfLoddington]

Someone on this thread mentioned Emorokian as an alternative for Ashcraft. I am not defending or supporting Ashcraft, just wanted to tell that I read an article today that said Emorokian got busted for having a marijuana grow operation, in case no one else has heard. Here is a link to the news site. Like I said, just letting you know, if you didn't already......

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/s ... usin/nXpgN

[wiskeyjac]

Well crud. We just ordered some loaner helms from him earlier this spring.

[Effingham]

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/s ... usin/nXpgN

[Klaus the Red]

Well, shit, y'all... you don't think he was supporting himself entirely on cheap helmets, do ya?

[EnderPC]

[Bender]

I always thought that Emorkian was sort of a wierd name. Now we know what influenced it.

[Klaus the Red]

I hereby dub them More-tokin' Arms.

[MJBlazek]

Now I understand his POTHelm specials!

[WmOfLoddington]

Well, shit, y'all... you don't think he was supporting himself entirely on cheap helmets, do ya?

It does kind of explain HOW he was able to make and sell helms for so cheap.

[bigfredb]

[Paladin74]

LMAO @ all the facepalm meme's.

I thought Emorokian was a Ukrainian outfit...sounded like one in any case.

[Caius705]

ENOUGH WITH THE EMROKIAN. LET US RETURN TO BITCHING ABOUT ASHCRAFT BAKER.

Nah, go however, it's all good.

[Ingvarr]

I would be willing to bet that stories could be told about many. Possibly even some mentioned in this thread.

[Bender]

No one "normal" really tries to support themselves making armor.