The Armour Archive

I used to have a bow from Horsebows.com and lost it in a divorce ( she took the dog too) and im looking to get back in archery a bit. anyone selling a decent bow?

I have a bow I picked up from Russ a few years back that I would part with.
It is made by Grozer http://www.grozerarchery.com/. I dont know the cultural origin of the particular style of bow. Russ might remember.
It is made with traditional materials, horn and sinew and fish glue, it is gorgeous. It looks sort of like Mongol bow and a Hungarian bow crossed.
But...
Its a heavy duty weapon.
It's nominally 87# at 28" and stacks pretty heavily from there.
At 32" I am getting what I guess is something over 100# maybe.
I cant shoot this bow very many times before I am worn out and finding or making arrows heavy enough for it has been challenging.

Russ described it as a war bow. It certainly is. At 40 yards its shooting dead nuts flat.
It is not a plinker, this is the .308 of horse bows. It is for rolling bad guys off of their horse at 200 yards.
With this bow you will be all set when the lights go out.

If this interests you let me know.
I can take some pictures this afternoon and post them.

P.S. I will include extra beagle hair in the package, gratis.

YUP! I'm interested

Thaddeus wrote:It's nominally 87# at 28" and stacks pretty heavily from there.
At 32" I am getting what I guess is something over 100# maybe.
I cant shoot this bow very many times before I am worn out and finding or making arrows heavy enough for it has been challenging.

Russ described it as a war bow. It certainly is. At 40 yards its shooting dead nuts flat.
It is not a plinker, this is the .308 of horse bows. It is for rolling bad guys off of their horse at 200 yards.
With this bow you will be all set when the lights go out.

I miss that bow... ::sniff sniff::

what do you want for it?

I also have a horn and sinew Grozer Hungarian for sale, 45# at 28, I can get some pictures to you if you're interested. I also have a dozen arrows for it as well.

It is a Hungarian TRH laminate bow.

Honestly, buy Ulricus' bow if its in any kind of shape and you can meet his price.
45# is going to be a much more pleasant shooter. It will get the business done.
It wont punch through chain mail, but as far as I recall your average competitive target is unarmored.
It will still take small to medium game.

Edit *I honestly have no idea what its worth now*

http://nomadbows.com/stock/index.php?ma ... cts_id=396
650.00 for a new one, no thanks Thaddeus.

Actually a 45lb composite recurve will easily penetrate mail, depending on the surface behind it, quality of arrowhead, fletchings, etcetera.

A TRH is worth less than that, but the shit value of the USD is one of the reasons I haven't been able to replace it -- my next heavy recurve bow may be a diy job made out of pvc, to be honest.

Sorry Samuel I totally misinterpreted the bow I have. I did not intend to misrepresent it, I just didn't do a very good job of researching it before typing.
I am going to take my bow off the table at this time.
Quite honestly I think the 45# bow is a better option.

http://www.eastern-archery.com/kassaiframe.html
These guys are selling Kassai bows for pretty reasonable money.
They also sell grozer's, The TRH like mine is listed at $500 although, the draw weights are not close, it's showing 60# max and either mine has some special sauce poured on it, or I am a hell of a lot weaker than I thought.

No, Thaddeus, the hungarian warbow you have is a custom job. It's a one-off.

Good to know it's special sauce and not my graying beard.

Ulricus Wulbrandus wrote:I also have a horn and sinew Grozer Hungarian for sale, 45# at 28, I can get some pictures to you if you're interested. I also have a dozen arrows for it as well.

If he isn't interested in the #45, I am. Been wanting one for a while and It'll give me an excuse to sell my #40 Martin X-200 Howatt signed.

Please PM me a pic and your asking price in case he declines.

Grimr

he wants 600 plus 100 for the arrows. Im passing on that as well.

Okay, while I can appriciate a ferrari, Im not interested in one for daily commute here guys. Decent bow= used, thus much less than the new price, UNDER 400 would be a good start

I've got one bow left, it's a cheaper version of what Thaddeus has, Hungarian style. While I"m not KEEN to let it go, you could in theory talk me out of it. Won't embed the pic, b/c it's seriously oversized, but here's a shot of me using it a couple of years ago.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-eXAl ... G_9119.JPG

Samuel
I bought my horsebow off ebay about a year ago. I haven't researched it lately but there use to be two main sellers both out of Hungary/Eastern Europe. I cant remember the name of the seller I bought from but if you PM me I will loo it up. I bought a mid range bow 65lb pull for a little less than $200. Th.e heaviest they made before you have to do a custom job and spend a lot more. Grozers are big $$$$$ now. I love mine. When I got it I thought they sent me wrong bow. It felt
lighter than my 45 lb recurve. Took it too the bow shop anid the scales said 67 lbs at 28 "

I would love to have Thaddeus bow. But the cost difference is too high for me.

Ebay has a TON of Chinese knockoffs for very low prices; quality is Chinese, of course -- you may get a great bow, you may get a complete POS. Chinese tend to not do quality control, but to put product out the door as fast and cheap as possible, and fix problems afterwards. Otoh, it's not like this sort of thing is anything exotic over there, either. (in fact, some of their "flagella" knockoffs are actually built on very traditional chinese lines)

Samuel check the eastern-archery.com link, they have some Kassai bows for short money, if memory serves those are fiberglass arms (Leather covered) with ash sihas. They shoot very nicely. I believe these are what were being sold here in the US by horsebows.com, but I could be thoroughly mistaken - as you can see it is something I make a habit of.

Russ Mitchell wrote:I've got one bow left, it's a cheaper version of what Thaddeus has, Hungarian style. While I"m not KEEN to let it go, you could in theory talk me out of it. Won't embed the pic, b/c it's seriously oversized, but here's a shot of me using it a couple of years ago.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-eXAl ... G_9119.JPG

ooooh I know that game, here we call it "where the hell did my arrow go"

thanks Thaddeus, im not a fan of chinese gear, damn hard to do returns..

Looks like I'll have to go the Ebay route. OR find the time to sit down and make some bending jigs, a steam box and laminate one up from Bamboo floor lathes and hardwood siyah.

http://eastern-archery.com/kaffkaframe.html

these are pretty much what I was looking for.. my kassai bow magyar sport I got eons ago had a narrow grip, used to make my hand hurt like hell after a day shooting and pulling 65# against it.

You may also want to take a look at http://www.classic-bow.com

I didn't realize how much Grozer's bows had come down since I bought mine, if anyone is still interested with a lower offer, feel free to let me know, I'll also entertain trades, I'm looking for a new helm, Preferably something in stainless, either a spangen or phrygian.

The one listed here: http://eastern-archery.com/mongolkassaia.html Looks nearly identical to my Kassai Mongolian. At 50 lbs it shoots well on the royal rounds and it often takes 2 of us to pull my arrows out of a dense target.

I also have a Scythian I got from Grozer. At 30lbs @ 28" I got it with combat archery in mind. I have used it to shoot a York round (100 yard range) and manage to overshoot the target. Combat blunts shoot well off it and I don't have any trouble with people not taking the hits.
http://www.grozerarchery.com/htm/szkita/szkita.htm

The only caveat is I would suggest finding a US distributor, as ordering direct from Hungary turned out to be a major PITA. I recommend horsebows.com myself - totally painless transaction.

Russ,

All I know is my bow was shipped from Hungary to the US. Yes, it was a Flagella Tartar Bow, which pulls 67lbs at 28". But for the $200 I paid for it, it was well worth it. It actually shoots better than my US made fiberglass recurve 45# bow. Stacks less, and feels much more smooth.

Either way, I'm happy with it for the money I spent.

Is it a Grozer? Hell no, but for the cost, I didn't expect it to be !


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flagella-TARTAR ... 1010wt_963

Vermillion,

The ebay pic isn't helping... see the knots in the wood they used? Its *DEATH* for a bow limb, even a laminated one.

Sure it isn't hand made by a master Bowyer but at least they could reject the scrap lumber, ya know?

Grimr

Grimr,

All I can tell you is that my bow is not like that. It is solid, and has no problems. I don't claim to be a bow expert. Not even close.

But this isn't my first bow. I have shot bows for over 30 years on and off. And mine while not hand built by an expert. Is very nice for the money.

I can only vouch for the one I bought and have shot.

Verm

Patternweld: actually, that's not true. Knots and other imperfections are absolutely common in horn/sinew bows, including originals.

Vermillion: I'm told that flagella dei has a good reputation for making a budget but rock-solid bow. What I'm referring to are chinese knockoffs on ebay which steal their name, not the reputable company itself.

EDIT: that's a new model from Flagella Dei which I've never seen before. It's got a gorgeous kasanlik, and I wouldn't be surprised if it really whipped a shaft downrange very well. Very different bow design from my "hungarian" (the pre-manchu mongols also used the same design), primarily meant to hurt a proto-javelin with a tip the shape of a gladius point for mild distances.

Russ,

Everything we know now about the science of it says that the change in wood density creates a spot that does not flex or compress like the wood around it. This causes issues, never said it won't work but it is HIGHLY undesirable in the limbs.

Knot in the riser? adds character.

I'm not arguing that some bows today or then had them, just mentioning its not a *good* idea.

In a wood bow, it's absolutely horrid, I agree.

In a h/s bow it's nearly irrelevant. The wood's a placeholder, basically (one of the reasons this design became so popular on the great steppe was that you could use truly shit wood and still make a perfectly admirable bow). There's also quite the shit-ton we are still only slowly rediscovering about these bow designs...

Russ if you look at the Ebay link it is to a Tartar styled bow made of laminated wood. The only horn on it is a "flash" on the sides of the Siyahs.

I agree with you that in a traditional Sinew/wood/horn laminate bow, the wood almost doesn't matter, except for the siyahs. It is fact common for many of them to have small gaps in the horn when unstrung, since it is compression that counts. This is because they are butted, not spliced, due to the compressive load.

It was also common for those bows to KILL people when they came apart, under load.

That's an important detail I'd missed, yep. Yikes. Glad it's working for him -- for a straight wood-lam bow to be of that size and handling that draw length is remarkable (including the knot).
Traditional Hungarian bows were spliced, but that may be because it was one of the "heavy group" and generally highly-stressed (much more so than most modern replicas).

Guys don't forget that we are not talking traditional materials here. These are not traditional wood/horn/sinew/ and fish glue laminations.

These are laminated with modern clear fiberglass resin. Totally different beast.

Regardless, when I bought mine they were very accomadating sellers. Ask them to select you a bow without any knots, and if you send you one with knots. Return it. They went through and selected me a bow that had a much heavier draw weight than the listing had.

My computer is about to die. If they worry you, don't buy one. They are KIA's of the bow world. Not Porsche's.