The Armour Archive

InsaneIrish said it pretty much how I believe it. The whole dibs thing is pretty stupid and the reason it keeps happening is because people let it happen.

I think there should be a stickied thread called Selling and Buying 101 that should be required reading before doing either.

How is saying "Dibs" any different from making an "I'll buy that" post?


Since people started whining on here about "Dibs" posts, I have stopped posting about sales altogether. When I see something I want, I just message the seller that I will buy it: they can edit their post to reflect that something is sold, pending payment, whatever.

Cedric wrote:How is saying "Dibs" any different from making an "I'll buy that" post?


Since people started whining on here about "Dibs" posts, I have stopped posting about sales altogether. When I see something I want, I just message the seller that I will buy it: they can edit their post to reflect that something is sold, pending payment, whatever.

Because usually its not just "dibs". It is "Dibs, pending size varification" or "dibs, pending wife approval" or "dibs pending size, SCA legality, whether it is stainless or not, blah blah blah"


Then all the other people willing to buy are put on hold until that first "dibs" is dealt with. Then only to have them go "nope, sorry, to big, small, not legal, wife said no".

My whole point (which was not directed to WTC, sorry, didn't mean to hit you with that brush) was that A LOT of the "bibs pending" crap would stop if sellers would take the little extra time to correctly and comprehensively describe and post their wares.

It is true that a lot of times, if the seller would include all necessary information (including decent pictures) it would cut down a lot of these posts.

Personally, I have no problem with people calling "dibs" on something until they can get the information they need to make an informed purchase (sizing, construction details like mild/stainless etc). I do agree that "Dibs pending wife approval" type posts are BS. I understand that a lot of people discuss things with their spouses before spending money, but couldn't you have that conversation BEFORE browsing the Classifieds section?

In my opinion, there is nothing saying anyone has to honor "Dibs" posts anyways. If a seller doesn't want to deal with it, they are totally within their rights to sell it to whoever has cash in hand first.

Yeah for me dibs posts are "I am buying this item, I am letting everyone else know this item is spoken for and no longer available and payment will be made ASAP" and that is true as both a buyer and a seller.


Just an FYI, I sent declangalvin a grumpy PM linking him to this thread and I just received a PM back from him. I'm not going to post it out of respect for it being private message but the PM was an apology and explanation of sorts quoting "life" and admitting that he treated it like a hobby rather than a business.

While I still have said gorget sitting here and no check for it, at least there has now been communication and an apology.

Pitbull Armory wrote:LMAO.....So since some people are too lazy to use the search engine some one should spend alot of time and money to get information thats already available?

Are you a programmer? If you have information specific to how long it will take to create a trader rating under someone's name, please share.

Bottom line is that the information would be readily accessible under the person's name, which makes it 10x more effective than running a search that may or may not provide the relevant information.

Glad you think being more efficient is a joke.

Or are you worried that your trader rating wouldn't be so good?

Mlanteigne wrote: Bottom line is that the information would be readily accessible under the person's name, which makes it 10x more effective than running a search that may or may not provide the relevant information.

Actually, the bottom line is that this is the Armour Archive, not the Amour Classifieds. This community is run by JT, who does not get paid, and pretty much foots the bill on EVERYTHING by himself. If this were ONLY a buying and selling website I could see your point. But this is just one of many active forums. The blunt skippy is that the time and effort is not worth the payout for someone who is already not getting paid to be a webminister.

Again, how do you know how much effort is required? I run my own forum and making board-wide changes can be as easy as checking off a box. I pm'd JT so we'll get the actual "blunt skippy" from him. Much better than speculation no?

And why are people so wrapped up in the time and effort of adding such a feature, when NONE of us knows (except JT) how involved it would be?

Are you saying that such a rating would NOT improve matters? That defies logic.

The problem I see with it is that since the sales are private and don't go through the site there is no way to limit the feedback to sales based transactions between people. Every time someone got butthurt in Political, someone else's rating would drop. It would be an unreliable metric to use.

Ingvarr wrote:The problem I see with it is that since the sales are private and don't go through the site there is no way to limit the feedback to sales based transactions between people. Every time someone got butthurt in Political, someone else's rating would drop. It would be an unreliable metric to use.

My thoughts as well...unlike EBAY and other sites where you can rate the TRANSACTION....we have no way to limit the ratings on JUST transactions....it would become a karma thing more than a rating thing...

I see what you guys mean. A karma system would definately get abused. The one on the gunnutz forum works completely different. Of course, this is all hypothetical lol.

I see what you guys mean. A karma system would definately get abused. The one on the gunnutz forum works completely different. Of course, this is all hypothetical lol.

Oops, sorry for the double post.

A rating system would be nice I guess, but the long and the short of it is to research the guy you're going to buy from or if its a "new" or "hobby" vender to be prepared (mentally and financially) for a potential game of silly buggers.

If you're selling, I think it's only fair that if someone says "dibs" to expect them to have the ability to pay immediately (I am personally going to change what I say to "I want to buy X and I have cash in hand"). This would be helped by having all the pertinent information plus photos listed.

I also strongly believe that buyers and sellers should be encouraged to rate each other or give a e-bay style "good seller, fast shipper, as described" result to the deal. That way we are all protected (to a greater or lesser extent).

Just my thoughts on a very emotive subject (as every subject involving money is).

Michael De Aston wrote:I also strongly believe that buyers and sellers should be encouraged to rate each other or give a e-bay style "good seller, fast shipper, as described" result to the deal. That way we are all protected (to a greater or lesser extent).

Just my thoughts on a very emotive subject (as every subject involving money is).

So, just thinking here so expand on this or tell me it won't work.

What about two threads that would stay at the top of classifieds, one for review of sellers, one for review of buyers. Then if your unsure of someone, you could do a quick search in that thread.

Maybe have it that you start your post in the thread with "Rating for <name>" so if I wanted to check out reviews of Baron Conal before buying from him or selling to him, I use the search tool, in classifieds, for "Rating for Baron Conal" to see what was said about him....

This!

Jofthepeace wrote:

Michael De Aston wrote:I also strongly believe that buyers and sellers should be encouraged to rate each other or give a e-bay style "good seller, fast shipper, as described" result to the deal. That way we are all protected (to a greater or lesser extent).

Just my thoughts on a very emotive subject (as every subject involving money is).

So, just thinking here so expand on this or tell me it won't work.

What about two threads that would stay at the top of classifieds, one for review of sellers, one for review of buyers. Then if your unsure of someone, you could do a quick search in that thread.

Maybe have it that you start your post in the thread with "Rating for <name>" so if I wanted to check out reviews of Baron Conal before buying from him or selling to him, I use the search tool, in classifieds, for "Rating for Baron Conal" to see what was said about him....

This is the first and only place on the web where I have seen dibs being used. You either have the money or you don't. While I was building my kit, I missed out on a lot of good armor deals because someone called dibs pending wife's approval or some other BS only to come back later and remove dibs when I wasn't online. As a buyer, I hate dibs.

I would only call dibs while waiting for a reply to a question about the item, and only if I had money ready and was willing to buy.
im on morning and evening and sometimes during the day here and would confirm as soon as the question was answered, not being in the us the question would prob be shipping cost which can be high.

I think the only thing I have got like that was a helm from pitbull ( a mini helm )

It's kind of odd that dibs has taken on an entirely different meaning here than it has in the real world. As far as I always understood it (and that's how I use it on here), dibs means "get your bloody hands off that, it's mine now!", not "well, that might be nice to have if I can manage it".

I definitely understand calling dibs pending info, but that should mean that if you call dibs pending size, by God you are buying that item if it fits you. It's a firm compromise to buy, with the caveat that there is something about the item that has to be a certain way. It should never be a simple request for information while trying to block others from buying something.

Anyway, I've said it before and I shall say it again. It's all about communication. If a seller doesn't want to take dibs, all it takes is a single line in their listing. NO DIBS ACCEPTED. Or if they have particular ideas as to what is acceptable, that too can be explained. DIBS AUTOMATICALLY RELEASED IF NO CONTACT WITHIN ONE HOUR, or any other criteria they deem appropriate.

Things akin to what you guys are discussing have been often discussed here in the past.

My understanding is that If JT, via a sticky or dedicated sub-forum or anything like that, can be construed to be hosting reviews and such beyond that which the posters on this board naturally discuss, he can be held legally liable for all manner of things from businesses or individuals who don't like whats being said. Much as a news outlet can be held liable for whats in their stories, but not what website users post as comments on said story (though thats been a grey area too).

In the current system, he can say "I just host a forum, what its denizens discuss is their business". If he starts stickying things or formally hosting reviews, he's more actively and materially involved. And we all know some businesses can get awfully butthurt and vengeful when they get called out on their BS.

As someone above pointed out, a karma system would go awry real damned fast as all kinds of things not related to business transactions motivate people to high-five or take revenge on someone via the karma system. Just look at the political forum. Any business that votes for the wrong guy would find itself getting negative ratings as the keyboard crusaders nerd-rage on them.

Typing a business name into a search box isn't really a big roadblock, especially when compared to any potential exposure to litigation for JT.

I've said this in the other post about dibs and I'll repeat it here...I do use dibs and for many people it does mean I want it, I have the cash to pay for it, I just need payment info, or even on occasion other info as well.

I agree calling dibs pending approval is crap and should not be accepted as a binding agreement to buy or sell. Dibs is like putting your hand up in an auction. If you are not ready to pay for the item immediately upon the end of the sale then don't put your hand up. In the real world that kind of behaviour will get you blackballed from future auctions.

Someone posted previously that the Dibs system could be improved, if the seller provided a series of pertinent pieces of information. This would eliminate the need to call dibs pending info/approval. Maybe the dibs system could/should be revisited?

Mlanteigne wrote:

Pitbull Armory wrote:LMAO.....So since some people are too lazy to use the search engine some one should spend alot of time and money to get information thats already available?

Are you a programmer? If you have information specific to how long it will take to create a trader rating under someone's name, please share.

Bottom line is that the information would be readily accessible under the person's name, which makes it 10x more effective than running a search that may or may not provide the relevant information.

Glad you think being more efficient is a joke.

Or are you worried that your trader rating wouldn't be so good?

Hehe, no not a programmer, the point is the information is available if someone just takes a few minutes and uses the search engine. Am I worried about my trader rating? Not at all, I invite you to type my name in the search box and check me out. If you dont have time you can just goto ebay and check my feedback there. I treat my customers like I would like to be treated so I never have any problems.

Lots of good advice and suggestions here guys thanks for sharing.


Have a good weekend

Pitbull

I did a quick search and found the phpBB karma mod that might do the trick.. There maybe something better. It'd JT's call of course.

declangalvin wrote:I was in the wrong and have sent a PM to Erik.

No body else said anything. And I don't have a dog in the race.

But good on you for stepping up and being honest!

Halbrust wrote:

declangalvin wrote:I was in the wrong and have sent a PM to Erik.

No body else said anything. And I don't have a dog in the race.

But good on you for stepping up and being honest!

+1