The Armour Archive

Greetings Gentles,

I am gauging interest in plastic coats of plate...essentially, these would be made from plastic barrels with fabric backing, could be either side or back openning. These would be produced on a one by one basis...so, no up front monies, thus no "I paid you now where's my darn COP!" you tell me you are interested, I make it, send pics, you don't like it, c'est la vie...I'm not certain the price range or any of the other logistics yet, until I know the degree of interest. I've been monitoring a certain other thread ont he archive that appears to be taking a turn for the worse....keeping my fingers crossed for all those involved...but looking at the advertised product I think I can pruduce a superior piece. I'm not knocking the other fellow as I'm only going on five pics I've seen on facebook.

So....there it is...any feed back would be great!

My apologies if this is not the correct section for this topic.

Yours in service,
James Edgarson

And no, I do not have any affiliation with the other gentle, nor am I castigating him. I've dealt with a few well known gentles here and hopefully my conduct speaks for it self.

the biggest thing would be ( for me ) would be price. if you could come close to the other guys pricing then I'd say you will get alt of interest

twistedxknights wrote:the biggest thing would be ( for me ) would be price. if you could come close to the other guys pricing then I'd say you will get alt of interest

This!

Please please please don't replicate the other fellow's mistake and make sure you are charging an appropriate price. Charging a fair price will get you business, but it will keep the volume manageable. Undercharging will get you overwhelmed quickly and set you up for a mess.

Appropriate can be "inexpensive" but it shouldn't be "cheap".

There is clearly demand for munitions grade CoP's but make sure you are giving yourself a price that will cover materials, frustration/correspondence time plus something better than 3 bucks an hour to actually make them. Otherwise you'll find yourself in the imploding cascade failure cycle we see all too often, and which is on display in the "other thread".

SCAdians will swarm anything that smells of a "bargain" even when it is clearly foolish to do so. Witness the folks still trying to hand money to the "Other plastic CoP guy" even after it has become absolutely clear that he's disappeared and imploded.


Charge low 3 digits, and you will have no problem making sales and have an obviously hungry market of folks to whom you could say "Yup, I'm a bit more expensive, but you'll actually get your order with me!". 2 digits is asking for trouble IMO.

Erik,

I think you're...pardom the pun..."right on the money"...lol...with that. I'm looking at material costs alone, before shipping and I think I understand how the other gentle resulted in implosion, as you say (although, you never know, he could fight his way back).

Price seems to be the mitigating factor.

And I have NO intention of putting myself in the same situation. So I reckon the best thing to do would be to bang out something, put it out here on the archive and see if anyone wants it.

I will say here and now....it will not approach the other fellows price. It will still be inexpensive, but I would rather sell things slowly and steady and have satisfied folks on the SCA fields than put my name to something I regret.

James Edgarson

I am interested. I am yet to order from the other gentle in question, but I am still in desperate need of armor that fits!

I'm not personally interested, but I would bet this would be a great way to get a lot of new fighters out on the field. An inexpensive kit that's light and doesn't look like plastic...sounds like a winner to me. People would probably also purchase sets for loaner armor.

http://www.alchemyarmory.com/14thcentury.html

That is a pretty good gauge of what Quality plastic COP's go for...now mind you his isnt plastic barrel. It is a proper formed kit made out of HDPE. So you should definitely be looking at 100-125 range depending if you are using canvas/fabric rather than leather...if leather 150-170 is a good area...

I do know my lady is looking for a COP but she's picky...-_- and She'd have to like it before I put any money on it...I don't understand her perimeters either.

One option to figure market price is to make a few generic cops.
Figure your time, materials and other expenses then list them hear or other places to see what market price would be compared with other plastic armour merchants.
Setting a production que should help avoid being buried in orders you can't fill.

From the sounds of it your price point should be between DV and what egg armour is charging.
Granted egg uses 1/8" &3/16" kydex so his material cost was a bit higher.

As suggested above, make some prototypes made for specific people of different sizes and shapes. Of if you are just going to do an off the rack, small medium large sort of thing. do the same thing. Pics help people were numbers do not all the time.

Also, while making sure you are taking care of your time financially, know barrel plastic coat of plates, while great and functional, will never command a high price tag, because they are pretty easy to source materials and the tools to make them. Think about branching into Kydex or other higher end material. Maybe work something out with Polar bear forge, or someone else, for a price on his kits for steel or aluminum. Shop clearance sales at craft fabric shops for nicer looking materials for outer shells. Set up a commercial account with Tandy. the more options you have without spending a lot on inventory the better. Of course, ever option is an up charge, and most people are willing to pay for that to have a less off the rack look.

Just my $.02

Or just offer to make canvas covers for a certain style like the polar bear kit or the wisby 7 mad matt was making.

You can get canvas very cheap by buying a drop cloth at home depot or buying it from an outlet store. But the goal is to not be overwhelmed.

clothier the slow wrote:You can get canvas very cheap by buying a drop cloth at home depot or buying it from an outlet store. But the goal is to not be overwhelmed.

With these, you have to be picky. I have gotten good canvas and pretty crappy canvas this way. The older ones they offered weren't bad, the newer stuff is pretty seedy and doesn't look great.

My best experience is canvas from a fabric warehouse. Of course, you don't get a great deal unless you are buying more than 10 yds.It involves a large up front payout, but the discount was better than I could have gotten anywhere else.
YMMV

Thank you kind gentles,

Ok, well, I have gotten a few interested parties. I am NOT in a situation to mass produce. However I believe I can create a worthy product that is inexpensive but isn't embarassing to wear onto the field. That being said, there are two parties that I'm in communication with, I will make a prototype, post some pics and await the "yay" or "nay" of the learned members of the archive!

This is fun!

I've always liked making things for others, and had great respect for the armourers and armouries in our game.
More news as it happens!

James

I'm sure my lady would love to see pictures when you get some ^^ maybe she'd order one just saying

Ok, I've managed to nearly complete a cop for someone, but I don't know how to attach pics?...can anyone explain to me how to do that?

I use imgur.

Think I figured it out....hopefully this works.

And laying flat, haven't added the strapping yet...but I'm getting there.

So this is generally the idea I had when I said a plastic coat of plates...I will post interior pics when I have time, I'm on nights and just getting ready for work.

That being said, this COP has copper rivets, is backed with decent quality tandy upholstery leather and will have proper buckles in the back...I've worked when I can, as best I can...I am working on creating a bottom-basement COP with galvanized roofing nails instead of copper rivets, and using canvas duck or backed canvas as the shell/backing.

Please give me some feed back.
Is this something that might be of value and interest to the collegium of gentles in our known world?

I guess I was one of the lucky ones I got one from the other guy though extremely late still happy with the product his price was too good to pass. I've repaired it a few times since then nothing to major just minor stuff. The one you look like your putting out looks superb would definately be interested in it because I really enjoy the plastic COP due to weight and flexibility. Looking foreward to following this thread.

Caius705 wrote:Or just offer to make canvas covers for a certain style like the polar bear kit or the wisby 7 mad matt was making.

Yes! I'd even send you the plates for three prototype, free of charge (as long as I get the prototype, at an appropriate discount).

What oz leather is that? and definitely link some imgur or photobucket pics that are larger so we can see the details

You might get really tired of peening galvy roofing nails really quickly. You may find that you are damaging the leather/plastic in the process. But, if it doesn't seem to be too troublesome, certainly saves some bucks in materials.

Also, curves. Construction looks good from a distance (or tiny pic in this case) but it is VERY boxy. Throw some curves around the shoulders and add some curved cutouts for the arms at forward extension.

Minimal extra work, looks and functions lots better. win-win.

Ok uploaded some pics to imgur...link below..hope they give a better view...give me some input.

James

http://imgur.com/a/OaRM1

The pictures of James' progress have been very promising, and my coat of plates are due to arrive before our local practice on Sunday, so I can get some pics of the armor in action. It looks beautiful and I can't wait to try it out!


-Wil

I am definitely interested in getting one of these! Great work. I would love to have.

Let me know if you need any "beta testers" lol.

Joe

I would probably be interested as well. I live in California now, but I travel to Pennsic every year, so I'm starting to build a second set of armor to leave there. This seems like it would be a fantastic set of armor to have at Pennsic for that matter.

I fought in the new COP today. I didn't get any action shots but there are a couple shots of me *in* the armor. It was incredibly lightweight and it fit wonderfully. I never even noticed I had it on! My shield brothers and sisters gave me a lot of compliments too. I looked snazzy! The COP had a tendency to slide forward or backward a bit, but that went away once I got my gambeson on and everything put in place.

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hph ... 2848_n.jpg

Hopefully the link works.

Wilhelm,

Thank you so much for the kind words!!!

I am currently working on my second CoP...this one will be with a dark blue upholstery leather....when it is finished I will put it up on the archive for sale.

Thank you Gentles for all your interest and support.

yours in service,

James Edgarson

This is just a suggestion, but in the future if you round the corner in the leather from the chest plates to the rib plates it will prevent tearing and last longer. Not a big curve just take out the point, points tend to tear easiest.

Barn Silveraxe

Barn Silveraxe,

I was actually thinking the same thing,...the right angle was just the simplest thing at the time, I do plan on putting a curve in the next one...thank you for your suggestion!

Are there pictures of the second set? I'm curious to see how 2.0 turned out.

I'd be interested in a plastic CoP if the price and quality was right.