The Armour Archive

I see a lot of people on here periodically selling/auctioning a lot of handy-looking stakes for armourcrafting on here, but does anybody have a source to buy these off-the-shelf? My group is trying to build a collection of tools so we can better build and repair armour, and we need the equipment to do it.

Not many places still have them as off the shelf items.
Halberts, and Stokewood armoury make them,
Ironmonger armoury makes some and gets a lot of them from various auctions and such.
lewellen Godowin also has some cast dishing forms from time to time.
usually its when enough people are interested for a foundry run.
When it comes to custom casting volume makes a big difference in price.

You can source some form

http://www.roperwhitney.com/forming-stakes.html

http://www.piehtoolco.com/contents/en-us/d823.html

Stakes are not hard to make they just take time to find useful shapes and weld together quality steel bits.
Industrial supply shops like McMaster, enco, and Fastenal can sell you large balls, pipe, pipe caps and such.
though you can also find interesting shapes at scrap yards or find an shop willing to do the work.
Trade school students often delight in odd projects like this. materials and a few bucks goes a long way.
If you don't have a trade school some auto muffler shops will weld things together for beer or donuts.

At times you can also find stakes on Ebay, Craigslist, Iforgeiron.com Anvilfire.com or one of the metal art forums.

beckleydt55vem has cast armoring/blacksmithing items all the time, the surface finish needs a little work but the price is fair.

Autobody dolly can work, but maybe a little soft,
Jewelry mandrels are also an option but the shape is often a little off once you make up for the padding.

http://www.robertofstokewood.com/tools.html
http://ironmongerarmory.com/tools
http://ironmongerarmory.com/tools-for-sale
Halberts has a lot of stuff posted on the archive, and on facebook.

Because they are on his personal page I won't link them.

though you can check out his youtube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqvEfq ... -k5xS1UYxw

Some are one of tools modified or made by request. a lot of his stock items images can be found the archive using the search button at the top.

Thanks, that's a TON of help. I've got a few machinist and welder friends locally that I might be able to talk into building stakes, but they're busy people so I don't want to impose on them.

As a sidenote, I've heard from some people that, in the context of making and repairing armour, an anvil isn't all that useful and that you're better off just getting a lot of different stakes. What's the thought of people here?

For tools talk to Halberds, look down a few posts for his auctions. He can make you a great set for what you need at a great price.

A lot depends on what else your doing.
As far as making and repairing armour stakes and forms do 99% of the work.
They can be useful at times but for armouring its low on priority list.

What kind of shop equipment do you have now?
It sounds like your starting from step one, with few tools and little background in shaping metal.

Hal.

losthelm wrote:What kind of shop equipment do you have now?
It sounds like your starting from step one, with few tools and little background in shaping metal.

That's about right. We've made a few simple dishes from a stump and an oxy tank, and we've got chunk of said tank and a chunk of railroad tie for banging things over, plus a few small hobby anvils. Besides that, some simple deadblow and ball-peen hammers from the hardware store. Basically, we've done some real basic stuff-shaping CoPs, rivetting and repairing our armour, stuff like that, but we want to get to the point where we can start building simple gear so we can get loaner gear for our group.

where in the world are you?
you can call in at my place if near and choose from up to 50 stakes in stock, specials made to order often while you wait.
forges, a forging press, working on a new type of vice and a belt grinder at the moment.
you can try stuff out, learn a little about smithing

The thing about anvils is that you can certainly get by without one, but they are very handy to have around.
If it's a decent weight and / or mounted to an immobile base, and has a decent horn on it, an awful lot of general bashing happens on it.
Almost every new piece I cut out gets straightened out ony anvil.

I second the suggestion to let us know where you are. I've opened up my shop to strangers in the past, and am willing to again.

From his previous posts, the OP is somewhere in Canada - we have other Canadian Archivers with stuff. Filling in your profile with even a basic location could help out a lot.

Canada's a big place

I'm using some of Halberd's hammers, Llewellen's dishing forms, and a couple of trailer hitch balls (rounded over with a grinder) for small shaping.

An anvil maybe damaged if your not careful.
Setting rivets can quickly damage the working face.
It sounds like your "hobby anvil" are Harbor freight "Anvil Shaped Objects"
Though your may have come from Canadian tire or other store.
A length of rail road track can do the same job.

I would sugest looking at a better steel cutting tool such as a beverly shear or a knock off version.
Picking up a copy of "techniques of medieval armour reproduction" by Brian Price
Also consider buying some tutorials from
Madmatt
Talbots fine accessories
Pitbull armoury
There are a number of other useful articles and patterns on this webpage
Bladeturner.com and http://www.brighthelm.org/articles/armour
There are others as well depending on what the project is.

am having an open day on the 5th march, at least 2 people want a forgework course

I'm in the Yukon in Canada-AKA, way the hell northern Canada. (If you've ever seen those gold mining reality shows on Discovery Channel, I'm within a few hours drive of all that). So in-person visits are probably out of the question unless I'm in the area for an event-although, if that happens, I would LOVE to spend an afternoon with a willing armourer to learn some stuff.

losthelm wrote:An anvil maybe damaged if your not careful.
Setting rivets can quickly damage the working face.
It sounds like your "hobby anvil" are Harbor freight "Anvil Shaped Objects"
Though your may have come from Canadian tire or other store.
A length of rail road track can do the same job.

Anvil-shaped objects is about the right word. We do have one ACTUAL small anvil, but for the most part it's cheap Canadian Tire stuff.

I would sugest looking at a better steel cutting tool such as a beverly shear or a knock off version.

We actually did dig up an old Beverly Shear out of a garage fairly recently. It needs some work, but it should be good to go after the Montreal tourney happening this week.

Picking up a copy of "techniques of medieval armour reproduction" by Brian Price
Also consider buying some tutorials from
Madmatt
Talbots fine accessories
Pitbull armoury
There are a number of other useful articles and patterns on this webpage
Bladeturner.com and http://www.brighthelm.org/articles/armour
There are others as well depending on what the project is.

I'll definitely take a look into all of those, thanks. The help is MUCH appreciated.

Goto Halberds here on the AA for any tools you need made, You can get by with household items alot of times also, A single bit axe head with a 6 inch handle is the ideal tool for starting flutes from the back side over a stump, just put the blade on the flute line and tap with a hammer from the back side, Same axe head pinched in a vice blade up, is used to crisp, or further raise the same flutes from the outside with a raising hammer, A steel pipe on a sawhorse is invaluble, a ball bat cut in half with a handle mounted in it is a Superb dishing hammer,

when removing dents from helms and plates I use cold raising, place the dent on a similar shaped ball stake, and tap from the outside directly over it with a soft dead blow hammer, the dent should pop right up at you, then use a planishing hammer in the same way, sand, finish. Gone.

Yes anvils are usefull and fun, but stakes will get you by no problem,

Have a good week

Pb

I recommend a good rawhide mallet as well.

Using a smoothly sanded iron dishing from from Llewwlyn Goddodin here on the archive, I found that a rawhide mallet will dish everything really smooth.
Almost no planishing work required after.

On thick aluminum, it leaves a surface that is almost polished when I am done.

-Badger-

Marauder_Pilot wrote:Thanks, that's a TON of help. I've got a few machinist and welder friends locally that I might be able to talk into building stakes, but they're busy people so I don't want to impose on them.

As a sidenote, I've heard from some people that, in the context of making and repairing armour, an anvil isn't all that useful and that you're better off just getting a lot of different stakes. What's the thought of people here?

Stakes. If you have an anvil around already, you'll find uses for it but it's not super necessary. Anvil substitutes like short pieces of railroad rail or I-beam also do. Except for lack of clever shaping and a tendency to batter, a square foot (30x30cm-ish) of 1" plate will do too. What's wanted is that it be of steel and about as massive as you can conveniently get.

If Whitehorse is in the oilpatch weldable steel pipe caps make terrific mushroom stakes welded up. Given a stem, that is. All the better if they stand upon a plate base on the floor -- a long stem of some sort, of square stock or square tube as a holder of some square stock.

Impose on, hell: buy their time. Welders don't mind a little extra cash for side-jobs, and they'd be good at building stakes of welded stock, such as bending forks, with which your Shire can manufacture its own complete barrelhelms from flat sheet and the lower halves of curvy helmet types as long as you have helmet tops shipped in. There are at least two Archivers who sell welded helmet tops fabbed up from two halves, and these can ship the halves still separate for joining using a riveted centerline strip for any non-welders up there with ambitions. You can bend and affix the lower half and the bargrill yourselves. It'd be worth the work to attain to the experience. Consult also with poster Sevastian: he's a dab hand at assembling good looking hats by all-riveted construction. In nicely refrigerated Alaska.

From your situation, you have a LOT of options, because you are rich in guys who are used to fabricating most things they need. All your troop now wants is to get some experience with them. You don't want a "I can only (this)" approach; you want to hit us up with a "How can I _____ with what I've got here?" approach. We've got some ideas. We'd probably flood you and your friends with them.

Canadian Tire's anvils will dent and mushroom, but apart from severe breakage, you can make do so long as you're willing to dress 'em with an anglegrinder when they're too chewed. Okay for setting rivets too but assume they will immediately become a cratered mess in the process. Their mass is still valuable; as we said, their durability ain't much.

A mushroom stake made from a trailer-hitch ball with a small divot drilled into the top of it makes a good rivetsetting stake as well. Holds or upsets the rivet, shank or head, as desired.

Second the rawhide mallet -- the weighted rawhide mallet, such as Garland Mfg sells as "split head hammer" obtainable with replaceable faces of which the rawhide face is among the best for our purposes. As hammers go these are not cheap but the three smallest sizes, of a total of five, are at least reasonable. If you can only get one, get the Size 2 -- money well spent. You'll wonder how you ever got along without.

A caveat about Bladeturner: there are much better tutorials for mailshirts out there than theirs. They're not too bad on SCA plate of the not-fancy kind. The Brighthelm article is a good starter-out to teach the beginnings of period-ish design while using homeowner tools and simple, simple methods; you will end up with gear that will pass with the Marshallate.

For equipping a troop easily: Easy Bake Armour -- read both pages of the thread. And poster Myron's laminated canvas armor, which only needs cloth and Titebond III glue, plus a little sanding of the pieces' edges when fully dried.

For Easybake, all you need is blue barrel plastic or HDPE plastic sheeting, an oven, and to make your positive molds.

We're doing steel fighting, not SCA, so plastic barrel isn't an option, although I'm definitely not above it if we do branch out into SCA fighting. But the rest is all definitely helpful, I'm lucky that I know a bunch of welders who will work for beer and have access to most of the stuff we can use to build stakes from scratch. We managed to turn an old oxy tank into a curved stump and a dish already.