The Armour Archive

Greetings .. A local scadian is looking at a helm from apprenticeworks armory .. any thoughts ? concerns ? positive ( hopefully) comments

Decided to remove this comment.

Cedric

Damn ..

After rethinking what I said above, I decided that I need to add a little more:

I have seen a couple examples of Peter's work, and it is generally well made, with very solid welds and good finish work for the price. If it would fit, I would have no problem trusting my head to one of his helmets - they really are fairly sound construction wise.

On the bad side, of the two people I know who actually bought his helmets, neither of them are satisfied. One of them comes very infrequently to our practice, he told me that the helmet he got (I never saw it) was warped and wouldnt fit on his head. He claimed that he had sent it back to get fixed and had had no contact since that time (6 months+). The other one was a friend that I recommended Peter to based on price and the fact that he is a local armorer. The helmet he got was very cool looking, except for the fact that the bottom opening was so tight he literally has to force his head inside the helmet (it will go on, but doesnt look safe). I recommended he contact the maker and work on getting it fixed, but he refused.. said he would rather get it fixed somewhere else rather then go back and try to deal with the guy who made it.

So, I dunno... take it for what its worth. He does make ok stuff, if it fits you. I personally wouldnt mail order from him though.

no one else ?

This is a situation that obviously needs to be resolved and clarified.

The particular individual that had the warped bascinet. The hinged mild steel grill had a cant to the left side of the helmet due to the primitive methods I was using at the time to center and position the center rib of the grill. During the welding process the cooling metal of the first spline of the grill pulled the center rib to the left.

The first method I used to correct this asthetic defect was to remove portions of the right side of the grill and attempt to restretch the grill to the correct bridging. This was ineffectual.

The second method I did was to completely remake the helm using a totally different helm pattern, different hinging technique, and a completely new grill.

The completed helm sat in my shop for about 4 months or so while I made repeated attempts to contact the individual. His correspondance with me was using three different email accounts of which I only had 2 on record.

During this portion of the correspondance I was activated for 4 months at Ft. Benning, GA. While I was there my wife and associates still attempted to complete the transfer of the helm. During this process the person was verbally abusive to both my wife and several of my associates and friends. My wife, finally fed up, hand delivered the completed helmet to the individual.

The second situation regarding the cheek plates of the Stormking Viking style helmet.

There is an appalling tendancy in the area where I am at to extend the lower grill/facial coverage of the structurally sound steel grill by hanging an ugly thin leather flap from the bottom of the grill. For the most part this is due to the bottom of the grill not only barely being 2 inches below the level of the chin but also have an extremely sizable distance from the chin to the lower edge of the grill. This thin leather flap is in place to specifically prevent a thrust coming under the bottom edge of the structural steel grill and crushing the larynx and dislocating the jaw.

What is even more disturbing is listening to people who design and create helmets deliberately making the grill short specifically because they know the person purchasing the helmet will put one of these ugly thin leather flaps on the helmet.

The issue regarding the lowest edge of the cheek plates and the bottom portion of the grill limiting the upper forehead and knot on back of the head from being inserted into the deeper and wider portion of the helmet is a known issue. The known fix that has worked for over 120 orders for this specific helmet with this specific issue has always been about 30 seconds with a hammer to gently flare the lower edge of the cheek plates and flare the very bottom of the grill.

I would like to hear from both of these individuals regarding these issues if they still exist. I do find it indicative that the previous poster stated inequivocally that I was denied the ability to correct this issue.

Peter

I currently possess a helm made at Apprenticeworks.

Since I wear glasses, I was concerned that I would be unable to fit my head into a regular helm. After having spoken with Mr. Cosgrove, I decided on a bascinet with a hinged grill. This has proved to be an excellent solution to the problem of being unable to fit one's head inside.

I am pleased both with the design of the helm, and the manner of affixing the grill to the helm and I would not hesitate to use or recommend Apprenticeworks.

Valete

I have a helmet made by Mr. Cosgrove, and am extremely pleased with it. Despite a rushed timetable my helmet is extremely well made, very structurally sound; it is not too heavy and turned out beautiful.

For those people concerned with a perfect fit, I have done business with many armorers throughout the years and the best thing is to be available during the construction process for fitting and adjustments, or you run the risk of it not fitting no matter who the armorer is.

Please contact me if you would like to look at a finished product by Mr. Cosgrove.

Rhyddereh Kynith

Cedric wrote:The helmet he got was very cool looking, except for the fact that the bottom opening was so tight he literally has to force his head inside the helmet (it will go on, but doesnt look safe). I recommended he contact the maker and work on getting it fixed, but he refused.. said he would rather get it fixed somewhere else rather then go back and try to deal with the guy who made it.

So, I dunno... take it for what its worth. He does make ok stuff, if it fits you. I personally wouldnt mail order from him though.

I don't consider this a problem... I have a spangenhelm from White Mountain which is like this; fits like a dream, but I have to sort of rock it back and forth on my head to get my brow past the bottom of the cheekplates & bargrill. I love it, I consider it a safety feature that the opening of my helmet is small. If a spear or sword thrust to the chest decides to stray, I'd much prefer this to a bell-shaped helmet.

Regarding the original post, I have a buddy who bought a breastplate, gorget and a pair of dragonwing pauldrons from Peter/Apprenticeworks. No delivery complications and communication was good. The armour is alright, the breastplate pattern isn't that well thought-out; the back has two hinged pieces which tent to hang open, the fauld gaps a bit, and it's pretty much impossible to put on yourself. I think my buddy is a bit shy to ask for help getting suited up, if I don't go to practice, he doesn't go. It looks like Peter has pulled the breastplate from the site though, hopefully to tweak the pattern.

Overall, I'll say 3.5/5. There's better armour out there, but the price is about right for what you get. Hope this review is honest, but fair

~Wil

Peter,

I am glad that you found this thread, those were indeed the two helmets in question. I never saw the first helmet, so I cant comment on it (and from what I know of the buyer, I dont doubt your side of the story).

The second helmet looked really good, other then the tightness of the opening. As you say, my friend made no effort to contact you to correct the problems, choosing instead to just "deal with it on his own".

Hearing your side of the story, I have to retract my "Look elsewhere" comments. Sorry if this has cost you any business.

bump

Ok, so we have a reply from Peter himself, followed shortly by 24601 and rhyddereh just coincidentally giving great reviews.

Of course both are new members making their first post. This made me rather suspicious--how hard would it be to log on and create some ghost members to give yourself reviews. So, I went searching the archives for other reviews. There isn't much, but of what there is the only negative I found was another post by Cedric saying the same thing he posted here.

I'm inclined to conclude that the 2 new members making their first posts really are new people (to the archive anyway), and my suspicions are unfounded. While Mr Cosgrove may have contacted them and requested they post here, that isn't a bad thing--perhaps they will stick around and contribute.

Finally, to counter Cedric's negative hearsay, I'll offer some positive hearsay : While I (like Cedric) haven't actually purchased anything from Mr Cosgrove, I have recommended his website to several people. While most chose other armorers, the one that did purchase from him reported he thought it a good value for his money.

Thank you to all who replied ..

Peter has been spoken to and an order placed for a helm .. some modifications and still the price was excellent ..

once the helm is completed and recieved i will post a review .. but i look forward to my dealings with both a Scadian and a Member of the Armed Forces ..

While the first helmet I described could accurately be described as hearsay I really dont think that the second one qualifies. I personally recommended Peter to my friend and so he brought the helmet to me to check out once he got it. Both myself and the senior marshall who runs our practice thought the bottom of the helmet was way to close to the lower parts of his face and neck area. Once again, however, the fact is that Peter was not given a chance to fix things (and probably didnt even know there was a complaint until reading about it here).

Also, In Peter's defence, he is right about the leather flap thingy. Marshall's in this part of An Tir seem to be the most critical I have ever encountered particularly in regards to throat/neck protection. I have gotten crap for years about how if my head was cranked way back I could maybe somehow get a thrusting tip in the chin or something. I fully understand WHY the helmet was designed the way it was, I just think that it was a little overdone (and it wouldnt take a lot of work to fix). And I also agree the leather flap thing looks stupid.

Oh and one last thing, from what I know of Peter, I would be HIGHLY surprised to find out that he had forged review posts for himself as Konal was initially thinking he may have done. I can understand why the thought may have occurred to him (it wouldnt be the first time someone did that on the AA,,,), but I dont think thats quite Peter's style.

Anyways.... I just got back from checking out the ApprenticeWorks webpage, his work has improved quite a bit since the last time I checked it out. Got some cool stuff on there...

one of my knight friends just asked about peter.

a couple other knights vouched for him on the knights list.

havent personally seen his work or know the guy but will vouch for the stupid leather flap thing here in an tir.

if you check this picture of a squires tourney you can see the leather flappy thing on the fighter who is not photoshopped.

[img]http://tiarmour.com/lucy%20the%20night1.jpg[/img]

here is my helm. notice the chin welded to the bottom as a marshal appeaser.

[img]http://tiarmour.com/mills%20helm%20and%20mine%202.jpg[/img]

so which helm is mild and which is stainless?

To 24601 and rhyddereh,

Any chance you can post pictures of your helms? I don't doubt you are real customers, I just like seeing pictures of armour


G--

Give him the benefit of the doubt... 24601 and rhyddereh and probably customers he asked to stop by and post reviews on the thread. Simple thing to do. We DO IP log here, and JT would notice if he were to look.

Like I said, I don't doubt that they are real customers. I just wanna see pictures of armour