The Armour Archive

I am making this post to see how many people would be interested in the possible making of Aluminum Scales for Armour. I have been in contact with Felix on this project and was wondering if anyone would want to have this type of armour. Scale armour is somewhat different than Lamellar since the scales lock together and have a backing to it. I found this idea from another post which can be located here.

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... ght=scales

As you can see the five hole design allows you to lock in the scales and the middle hole is used to lace the backing to the scales. This is somewhat different than Lamellar and would make a great kit for anyone.

The scales that Felix presently makes is for Lamellar with no backing whatsoever. They are great looking as well as not overly large like many other Lamellar plates I have seen. They are light wieght and sturdy so that your armour will not weigh a ton. The most impressive thing is that the low maintennance the scales will have since they will not rust. The only problem is that to make this design cost effective for Felix and the people who want this type of armor is to have a very large purchase and not a induvidual one. I am presently wanting to purchase 650 of these scales with this five hole design for my own personal use. I am wondering if there are other people who would be just as interested to purchase this hole type with the scales that Felx makes. Please let Felix know if you are interested and perhaps if there is enough people it will make the scale very reasonable for all of us to purchase this design. This is the topic which will have the shape and measurements of the scale and how to contact Felix.

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=52032

I would be interested.

I am quite tempted by this.

Are you planning to make the scales as to the plan specs, or are you simply drilling Felix's differently.

The document you refer to has 190 plates per squre foot... which means 1900 plates for the 10 square feet I would probably need for a XXL scale Byrnie..

Tigernach wrote:I am quite tempted by this.

Are you planning to make the scales as to the plan specs, or are you simply drilling Felix's differently.

The document you refer to has 190 plates per squre foot... which means 1900 plates for the 10 square feet I would probably need for a XXL scale Byrnie..

We could do either, but that would have to be decided here by you guys as the cost is crazy high if we do not do a mass order. I am willing to look into this and take the financial risk but we are going to need 5-10 k to make it doable for you guys.

Felix...dlhptn here...I was going to order some lamellar plates from you but would definetly prefer the scale!!!! If you can get me a rough idea what the price would be I would prepay my order for you to take some of the risk off. Email me back at dlhptn@yahoo.com.
Thanks

Rannulf Fitzwilliam wrote:Felix...dlhptn here...I was going to order some lamellar plates from you but would definetly prefer the scale!!!! If you can get me a rough idea what the price would be I would prepay my order for you to take some of the risk off. Email me back at dlhptn@yahoo.com.
Thanks

We are going to leave this open for a couple of weeks and find out about how many we need to get for people and then I can lay the hammer down on my guy who makes these for me.

A couple of things you guys need to work out though is if you want the smaller scale like that was drawn or if you want me to just have them cut different holes in my original plate. The scale is smaller than my plate and will take more scales to make a coat and quantities will differ depending what configuration you want (use drawing for reference.) Again, willing to help you guys but need a style and we can figure out quantities and then I can get a firm price. So first things first style and quantity, then I will let you guys know what I find out and I will start taking pre-paid orders if you guys want to move forward on this project.

Cheers!

Of course, I would also be interested. But can you make some using brass, bronze or copper? Aluminum just doesn't appeal to me.

Felix same size plate would be fine with me that should keep the cost the same I hope. I would even settle on a bigger plate I would not lace them personally I would rivet them to leather butting them plate to plate. Guys scale has a wicked sound when you move. I will stay informed my concern is having them in time for me to get a byrnie done for Gulf Wars.
Rannulf

Having them in the smaller scale design would be a great look, but honestly the size that Felix has is also small and would also be just fine. I guess for me it comes down to price of the smaller scale as to the larger one. If the scales are made in the smaller version, I would need 1400.

I thought there would be more interest in this design....

I think these might be great to flesh out my skirts. What for avialibility? Price? Thickness, length, width, etc.

Guys I received the quote today numbers are coming in at this price range .50 cents a scale if I order 10-15K and .65 scale for 5k. You may ask why it costs more well materials have gone up so has engineering costs and then they have to ship the product to me. I will try and get a better price but these guys are dependable, fast and do great work.

Brass is right out as it never gets below $1.40 a plate by the time you add everything up. I can look at anodizing some stuff but its still T-6.

Reconfiguring my current plate will drive the price up to the .50-.55 cent per plate range because of engineering costs. So if you guys get a real number together and I will try and work with you.

Still a better deal than I have found. Usually its up to 2 dollars with all the holes punched out and deburred. This still is a great deal people...

How many scales, i.e., how much for an average size byrnie? I have been up for 24+ hrs n I just cant do the math. It looks like it may be a bit expensive, though. Any thoughts?

So the scale is .50 but the lamellar plates are still .40? Right?

For me, 50 cents a scale is too much if you need 1000-1500 for a harness (though I'm not sure you would...just sayin')! Yipes!!!

Timothy F. wrote:For me, 50 cents a scale is too much if you need 1000-1500 for a harness (though I'm not sure you would...just sayin')! Yipes!!!

I agree, but hey its your money! I thought the smaller scales would net a better price, it has not. If you set them side by side that is better or if you went with a larger scale and had the hole configuration changed I think that is reasonable, you stay in the $160-$300 range for body armor. Just my two cents.

Robert P. Norwalt wrote:So the scale is .50 but the lamellar plates are still .40? Right?

Yes, I have a open quote for this product and the price is locked in for the next six months.

I think the same size scale that is used for Lamellar would do just fine. That would cut the amount of scales nearly in half. But, we need to get enough people interested in order to have a nice size order. I am planning on buying 700 if the plates are the same size as the Lamellar. That would be around 400 which is still a decent price I say compared to the other quotes I have gotten. I have been looking around calling people up on this design and the prices have not nearly been as cheap and that is not even having the holes already punched out ready to go. Now, if I want the smaller scale I would need say 1400 which would be around 700 dollars. Steep, but still compared to say full Gothic Breast Plate still is not terrible. I am making this my final kit for a very long time and I know it will last except for maintenance and wear which happesn to all armour in combat. I am still hoping that this will go through since actual scale is very difficult to obtain.

Here is a consideration most people do not have when pricing this out...

Lets say for argument you wanted a nice Churburg kit...
How much would you pay for a well made torso/shoulders/tassets?
Guess what, by comparison, lamillar/scale is CHEAP.

Thorfinn, putting in his .02

sigh.

It looks like I need 900 scales minimum if it's the same size as the Felix lamellar.

I guess that means I buy 1000 for mistakes, repairs, and wear-and-tear.

OK $500.00 for 1000 plates. I'm in for the redrilled Felix-sized plate.

NO DINNERS OUT FOR TIGERNACH UNTIL PENNSIC.....!

BTW, Thorfinn, I FINALLY brewed something... an IPA-sorta-Braggot. I have not forgotten.

May I make two suggestions that might help with the retooling of the holes?

Consider this sample of Roman squamata, found at Nijmegen:
http://www.romancoins.info/milit-armour.jpg

From Carlisle (halfway down the page:
http://www.romanhideout.com/armamentarium.asp

Notice how far down the side of the scale most of the double horizontal attachment holes are. Would it be sufficient to simply not drill the double hole on the scalloped end of Felix's lamellar and leave the side holes where they are?

Second suggestion: what about a smaller double hole instead of a single large hole at the top end of the scale? This seems to be the pattern of a lot of the historical scale, indeed, some are drilled with four holes in the top middle. A double hole there would make the vertical sewing more firmly adhere to the foundation beneath and flap less than a vertical stitch through a single hole brought over the top as suggested in the Original Post. The Nijmegen fragments include (at the top of the photo) a fragment of the foundation backing with stitches still attached. These scales use the central double hole, with a a vertical stitch through them to attach the scale to the foundation.

I'm not trying to throw a monkey wrench in the works, but if we are going to make the scales, we might as well make them as well and as close to the originals as possible. I will go with what the group decides, of course.

Well, if this does not go through I will be getting my 200 Lamellar Scales for my skirt to have for the Gulf War. I see what you mean Tigernach in the design that was made for those scales. What is interesting is how uneven the holes are. To think how upset I was a few times when I was making my Lamellar and not aligned my holes perfectly.

So far it seems to be you and me, Ronnin!

I would still love to try a version of these, but if there are only two of us interested it may be necessary towait for now let the Dream have its own time.

Yes, sadly since I have seen so many topics based on scale and how difficult it is to find and such. There is now many resources of Lamellar which I think is great for the people who do this hobby. I thought that scale would be even more of a demand since there are not many that I can find that make good scales for combat that are remotely historical and reasonably priced. So I guess I will have to be patient and wait on this for now.

ronnin wrote:Yes, sadly since I have seen so many topics based on scale and how difficult it is to find and such. There is now many resources of Lamellar which I think is great for the people who do this hobby. I thought that scale would be even more of a demand since there are not many that I can find that make good scales for combat that are remotely historical and reasonably priced. So I guess I will have to be patient and wait on this for now.

Cheer up buckaroo! Things may work out.

I hope so......