'Lalain began his eight fight in this month, with Gaspart de Dourtain (Chastelain calls him Courtain), who asked for 75 axe strokes, Chastelain says 64. Lalain this time dispensed with the right greave but otherwise was armed as usual. Dourtain had a bascinet with the visor closed. When they engaged Lalain showered many blows on the visor of his adversary, but at last got the spike broken off his axe, seeing which Dourtain redoubled his assaults. So they fought for a long time all over the lists, each keeping his position and the advantage of the sun. At last Lalain caught hold of Dourtain's axe between his left hand and the lower end, when the judge stopped the fight.'
Were they 75 blows thrown or 75 blows landed?
Why would someone remove their right greave?
A friend and I are considering if we can do this. This would be exhausting IMO, but fun.
If we did this with SCA polehammers (rattan), would any in the DC to NYC area be able to assist. Saturday 26SEP09 is looking really good. Maybe in October might be better (as it will be cooler).
Does anyone know of a good, photographic location in between DC and NYC to do this Deed of Arms?
With thanks,
-Aaron
Last edited by Aaron on Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
To fulfil a vow he made. It wasn't uncommon, during the reign of Philip the Good, for Burgundian knights to make vows to fight leaving off pieces of armour. They were imitating the Authurian romances popular in pHilips court, and if you ever reasd the vow of the feast of the Pheasant, you will see a number of such oahts being recorded.
Sometimes, armour was left off for practical reasons
Jaques brother Simon was slain at Montleherey, for leaving off some armour to fight on fight with the infantry (I suspect leg harness), then mounting when the cavalry of his divison was sent forward, and going off with them in the charge. Jaques being killed at the siege of Pooke castle, it was rather a tradition of the Lalaing family to die in the service of the dukes of Burgundy (counts of Hainault previously), with something like 8 of the family being killed in combat between the turn of the 15th century, and the 1490's.
I wonder from the context "this time...removed the right greave", if in a prior engagement it might have been damaged such that he chose to go without it.
It could just as easily be that he was fulfilling a vow, but the language is both suggestive and ambiguous
I would say landed as it would be difficult to say what would be considered a "thrown" blow, as quite often a block would also be a blow in its own right. You can see that would cause problems with the exact definition of a blow. At what point would a feint become a blow etc.
I believe there is no way it could be anything other than amount of hits.
Keep in mind, the score was kept by marshals of the list, who also could intervene in the fight to end it, or temporarily stop it. The contestants did not keep score themselves.
I was participating in a pas d'Armes at a Gulf Wars (?) and during the challenge round two portly gentlemen stepped forward and announced that instead of the common five counted blows that they would do that plus the feast dates of their respective companies' saints' feast dates of what ever (I had a helm on - 48 maybe) "German style" (Single sword with one gauntleted hand on the barrier).
They might have made it to about five blows each when they just could not swing anymore but instead of forfeiting so far from their goals their teammates stepped in when they released the barrier. And then new ones stepped in and so on. It became a venes vs tenens relay bout and actually worked out fairly well if not as planned.
It was enough fun that I would do it again. Some times cool events come from accidents.
Karl http://earngyld.org/
I am from Oertha so I am automatically cooler than you.
I'm looking forward to going the entire distance. But I also plan on that being the only event for the day, unless I feel good afterwards. The problem with Deeds of Arms I've done before is that they were usually after a long day of fighting.
Now if we can just get the right location, time, etc...
I'm thinking just about sunset, somewhere photogenic, possibly at an SCA event site if possible.
With respect,
-Aaron
Ron Broberg wrote:
For someone who came into this cold and old and full of doubts, that's just half-bad!
I've wondered about this myself. I think it might be 75 blows thrown, it seems easier to keep track of how many times you swing the weapon, than to try to keep track of the number of landed blows on either yourself or your opponent. Then the judges could count the landed blows, and decide on the victor...Just a thought.
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
