12th Century Helms

gman8176 · Post by **gman8176** » Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:06 pm

I was wondering if someone would be kind enough to help me out. I am thinking of making a kit up for a mid to late 12th century german who would have been in the crusades. I wasn't looking to be a templar. I know that the early part of the 12th century would have been mostly nasal helms. I was wondering when they started to use the face protection on the helms. I like the look of the helm from white mountian armory, (http://www.whitemountainarmoury.com/ima ... /crsd1.jpg) and from this living history website (http://www.normannis.co.uk/Photo-Album. ... rmoury.jpg), but wasn't sure of when something like this would have been used. I have looked online as well as on the archives here, but have not been able to find much. I don't know if I am trying to do to narrow of a search or not. Any help would be appreciated. Thank

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:50 pm

Face plates would not have appeared until the 1190s or so, and would not be common until around 1210. They did seem to catch on quickly in Germany if we rely on what artistic references we have as any evidence of trend, but this is still a couple of decades later than you're interested in. Before 1190 or so, you'd see almost purely the use of conical helmets with no face plates, and flat top helmets would become appropriate by the 1180/90s or so, but not so much in Germany. You'd be looking at fluted conical helmets, typically with high profiles and with large nasals, sometimes with flares that extended out to cover the mouth, it seems. I'd suggest picking up the book German Medieval Armies 1000-1300. Cheers!

-Gregory

Ernst · Post by **Ernst** » Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:13 pm

Mr. Liebau mostly has the right of it, but I believe rounded tops were more prevalent in German speaking areas than conicals. Here's some examples of those "transitional" nasals and 12th c. face-plates.

http://diglit.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/cpg112/0024
http://diglit.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/cpg112/0084
http://diglit.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/cpg112/0108

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Sat Jun 12, 2010 2:05 am

Indeed, round-topped is the appropriate term for the helmets I was thinking of. Conicals are far less common in German artwork! Cheers.

-Gregory

RenJunkie · Post by **RenJunkie** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:59 pm

Do those guys have a cross piece on the bottom of some of the nasals? Looks like a Thor's hammer sort of shape.

Thanks,
Christopher

Ernst · Post by **Ernst** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:39 am

A number of them do. One has an early face guard where the ends curl back to form occulars, but those inverted T forms are more common in this manuscript.